what battery and charger do u have for you elec motor

[cobia]

hey guys just got myself a 54Lb bow mount yesterday and now im in the search for a battery and charger


im on a fairly tight budget.what brand battery and size do you guys have running your bow mounts of similar size.

also wht charger do you have..

also any places for me to start looking or places wear u have purchased yoru from would be great to.

btw im located in brisbane

[roydsy]

Umm what is this going on? a tinnie, canoe?

Would you be wanting to permanently install of be able to remove from boat regularly. the reason i ask is whether you would be looking for a low maintenance gel type battery which doens't spill etc.

I grabbed a descent one from battery work 120amp hours for about $180-190. I got a 12/24Volt charger 10 amp from supercheap for around the same money.

[Lutjanus johnii]

Got a 90A/hr AGM for $250. For a budget charger go for the C-tek, it's a good 3 phase charger IMO.

[the gecko]

I had a lot of trouble with the Supercheap 5400 charger. They dont turn off when they are finished, and they overcharge the battery. Next thing I know, Im only getting 1-2 hrs use out of the leccy.

I then got a Projecta off ebay around $100, and they are great. Anything around 6000-10,000 amps should do. Any brand that will cut off when fully charged should also be ok.

Andrew

[roydsy]

Did it go through the three charging phases correctly?

Mine works a treat....well lets hope it stays that way.
Roydsy

[tunaticer]

I run a SmartCharge setup. One of the few you can put on and forget about without any worries about damaging your battery. As the name suggests its got a specialised monitoring system to provide the best care for your battery. You pay for what you get tho as these start at around the 300 mark. I have my three batteries linked for charging and they get a top up every thursday night overnight as a rule.

Jack.

[artesian]

tunaticer makes a good point re 'top up every Thursday night....' I only just worked out that my smart charger might stop looking at the battery once it thinks the battery is full.

The second thing I'd like to ask is, do you plan to use the boat one day and then leave it for a few days, or get into it every day, even if only on hols etc? I have found that my 8 amp smart charger is great for the one day every now and then trip, but really struggles on multi day trips where the motor gets a lot of use at close to full power.

There were other posts about batteries, and how far to discharge them, but lets say I pull 40 amps out of my system one morning, it is going to take (a lot more?) than 5 hours for me to put that back with my 8amp charger. And that means getting off the water at 10:00, and back out again at 3 or 4:00, is a problem until I buy a bigger charger, or another battery and swap batteries (too b#@$# heavy)

[NAGG]

I'd be looking at a 120amp Trojan! ..... Yes they cost $80 - $100 more than a standard deep cycle ..... but they are built to last
For a 54lb ... a 120amp is ideal ( remember the more power you have .... the more / harder you can run the leccy. ........ I know you mentioned that you are on a budget , but when it comes to leccy batteries dont skimp ..... as you'll probably end up buying another sooner rather than later! ( I run 2 x 100amp Absorbed power AGMs ... but they are not cheap @ $350 each ..... However they are totally maintenance free & can be run to a much lower state of discharge ..... & they charge faster!)
Chargers ..... I like the on board minn kota 3 stage charger ...... but they are not cheap at $250 ...... some others might have better ideas ( but go a 3 stage charger for peace of mind)
Nagg

[cobia]

hey i dropped into battery world today and he highly recommended a battery for me..i ended up calling the supplier directly and got it about $100 cheeper ( battery world has them for $260 i got mine for $150).

its just a standard lead acid battery.120amp hours etc

i dont think its as high quality as your guys that have $350 batteried but should keep me going long enough until i can afford a really good one


thanks for the help fella's really help full

[snasman]

Hi cobia I wont get into what battery you should have got but as far as chargers go the c-tec charger is a dam good investment,its a monitoring charger and switches itself on and off as the battery requires avoid the cheap chargers they will work but will also shorten your battery life as they are a continouis charger and never switch off,ie if you leave it on for a week at a time it has the ability to boil your battery dry,look around at prices you should be able to pick 1 up for about $80.00,good luck Snas.

[cobia]

wear about did you get yours?

[the gecko]

Roydsy, my Supercheap 5400 ma charger was a continous one, and not a 3 stage charger. Im sure the 10,000 ma 3 stage charger is fine. Its just another mistake I made as a noob buying cheap gear, that had to be replaced later.

I replaced it immediatley after I saw heaths post about the burnt out boat that was left on charger. I used to leave my charger on and go to work all day too. And I left the fuel tank in the boat too. That post really gave me a wake up call about fire risk.

Andrew

[bundylundy]

Trojan 130 A/H for my MinnKota 54lb A/P. C-Tek charger for recharging o/night. Got both from Battery World and have had no problems in the 2 years I have owned them. Set up Trojan as a dual battery setup so as can charge from the motor if required and can use as a backup to start the motor if normal starting battery dies(if cheap crappy battery installed by dealer).

Jeff.

[Steven78]

I use a Smartcharge setup to. We use these charges for comms gear for pumping stations and radio repearter stations they work very well yet to have one fail.
http://www.durst.com.au/default.htm?page=smartchargers.htm
I am running the 20amp version the boat is allways pluged in via the anderson plug. At work we have 12 volt and 48 volt systems running in float.
I can get them through work but i will have to ask.

[yamp]

just bought minn kota 3 stage charger from withworths $170 10amp unit

[1337]

Another Trojan user and they get the thumbs up - best lead acid deep cycle on the market without a shadow of a doubt (will give all AGM batteries a run for their money mine you).

Regarding chargers: I would get a more powerful (10amp minimum) charger as opposed to "weaker" 3 stage chargers. Buying a charger that has adequate charging power is more important. Anything less than 10amp power output charging a 100amp battery is not good charging practice. Consider something like a Nevaboost 140 - tough, reliable, well built 13A/50amp (boost mode) manual charger.

[finding_time]

. For a budget charger go for the C-tek, it's a good 3 phase charger IMO.

Budget charger? My C-tek cost around $700.00 ! What sort of budget are you on Lutjanus?

Ian

[cobia]

i found a 13 amp charger yesterday so im looking to that...

i also saw one from jaycar yesterday...i think it was 16a but i didnt have a good look at it so it might be cruddy

[bayfisher]

i found a 13 amp charger yesterday so im looking to that...

i also saw one from jaycar yesterday...i think it was 16a but i didnt have a good look at it so it might be cruddy

I have one of those jaycar 4 stage 16a chargers, after looking at a whole heap in that price range I decided on that one. Its turned out to be a really good charger I dont think you will find better for the money.

Cheers Chris

[Flattie Assassin]

My charger is a cheapie i guess. 12 amp powertech smartcharger. $110 Works ok so far.
Battery is a agm 105 ah.

[zaraspook]

i just bought a 10amp swithch mode charger for about 160. i think you really need a good charger, no good spending all that money on a battery and stuffing it with a crappy charger

[Grey-Ghost]

Hi guys I have a 40 amp smartcharger for sale it will do 2 batties at at once still in box will sell for $400
Cheers chris

[TheRealAndy]

I'd be looking at a 120amp Trojan! ..... Yes they cost $80 - $100 more than a standard deep cycle ..... but they are built to last
For a 54lb ... a 120amp is ideal ( remember the more power you have .... the more / harder you can run the leccy. ........ I know you mentioned that you are on a budget , but when it comes to leccy batteries dont skimp ..... as you'll probably end up buying another sooner rather than later! ( I run 2 x 100amp Absorbed power AGMs ... but they are not cheap @ $350 each ..... However they are totally maintenance free & can be run to a much lower state of discharge ..... & they charge faster!)
Chargers ..... I like the on board minn kota 3 stage charger ...... but they are not cheap at $250 ...... some others might have better ideas ( but go a 3 stage charger for peace of mind)
Nagg

Over the years I have used many batteries. Sealed Lead Acid batteries (SLA,AGM) are good if you want a maintenance free battery that can be mounted in any direction, but they are a lot dearer. They tolerate less abuse as far as charging is concerned, and they DO NOT charge faster. infact they should be charged slower than wet cell batteries if you want them to last. These days I tend to go for the cheaper batteries, if looked after they last just as long as an SLA battery and in the end I feel they are better value for money. However if the are going to get knocked around and tipped over then the SLA battery is the only way to go.

The trick here is to go for a good charger, thats what you should spend the money on. The $15 supercheap charger will kill a battery in no time. The 3 stage charges are good, look for terms like constant current and constant voltage. What most people dont realise is that optimal charging rates depend heavily on temperature, and if you can find a charger that compensates for ambient temperature then you will end up with a battery that lasts a lot longer. Obviously there is going to be a trade of in cost V practicality, and spending $600-$700 on a charger is probably not going to be worth your while, however spending $200 on a multistage charger is probably a good long term investment. If you make the battery life go from 1 year to 5 years then it will pay itself off pretty quickly!

[TheRealAndy]

Over the years I have used many batteries. Sealed Lead Acid batteries (SLA,AGM) are good if you want a maintenance free battery that can be mounted in any direction, but they are a lot dearer. They tolerate less abuse as far as charging is concerned, and they DO NOT charge faster. infact they should be charged slower than wet cell batteries if you want them to last. These days I tend to go for the cheaper batteries, if looked after they last just as long as an SLA battery and in the end I feel they are better value for money. However if the are going to get knocked around and tipped over then the SLA battery is the only way to go.

The trick here is to go for a good charger, thats what you should spend the money on. The $15 supercheap charger will kill a battery in no time. The 3 stage charges are good, look for terms like constant current and constant voltage. What most people dont realise is that optimal charging rates depend heavily on temperature, and if you can find a charger that compensates for ambient temperature then you will end up with a battery that lasts a lot longer. Obviously there is going to be a trade of in cost V practicality, and spending $600-$700 on a charger is probably not going to be worth your while, however spending $200 on a multistage charger is probably a good long term investment. If you make the battery life go from 1 year to 5 years then it will pay itself off pretty quickly!

I should have added is the best thing to do is not let your battery gas, this is where the regulated charger is good. IF an SLA battery gasses (and vents) its pretty well stuffed. I could crap on for hours about battery chemistry but I would bore the shit out of everyone!

[Simmo2]

RealAndy,
Can you tell me your thoughts on float voltage, and temperature of the actual battery whilst charging.
A ham mate of mine in SA says float voltage should be achieved with max current, then held for trickle... All the time not allowing the battery to warm more than 2 degrees....
Do you have an opinion?

[Lutjanus johnii]

Budget charger? My C-tek cost around $700.00 ! What sort of budget are you on Lutjanus?

Ian

Technical Data

MODELMULTI XS 3600Input voltage AC170-260VAC, 50-60HzOutput voltageNominal: 12VEfficiency85%Charging voltage14.4V/0.8A, 14.4V/3.6A, 14.7V/3.6ACharging current3.6A maxBack current drain*1.3mARipple**max 50mV rms, 0.13AAmbient temperature-20°C to +50°C, output power is reduced automatically at higher temperatures.Type of chargerFour step, fully automatic switch mode with pulse maintenance.Type of batteries12V lead-acid batteries (Wet, MF, AGM and GEL)Battery capacity1.2 -120AhDimensions (L x W x H)165x61x38mmInsulationIP 65 (splash and dust proof), outdoor useWeight0.5kg

This one Ian, It's not built for speed but it would do the job over the weekdays ready for the weekend. Cost about $90-$120 depending where you shop.

What model did you get? and why did you need $700's worth of charger?

I just bought the Minn Kota dual battery charger and paid just over $300. Again it only has 5A per a battery but that's all I need for the weekends. I have the C-Tek hardwired in my dual battery work van and it does the job every night.

[kingtin]

I have one of those jaycar 4 stage 16a chargers, after looking at a whole heap in that price range I decided on that one. Its turned out to be a really good charger I dont think you will find better for the money.

Cheers Chris

Same as the one I got..........Can't fault it at the price


4 stage charger (16A) from jaycar at a good price:

http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MB3620&CATID=18&keywords=&SPECIAL=&form=CAT&ProdCodeOnly=&Keyword1=&Keyword2=&pageNumber=&priceMin=&priceMax=&SUBCATID=295

kev

[TheRealAndy]

RealAndy,
Can you tell me your thoughts on float voltage, and temperature of the actual battery whilst charging.
A ham mate of mine in SA says float voltage should be achieved with max current, then held for trickle... All the time not allowing the battery to warm more than 2 degrees....
Do you have an opinion?

The standard method of charging Lead Acid batteries (decent charger that is) is constant current until the cell reaches 2.3-2.4 volts, then constant voltage at 2.3-2.4 untill the current draw stabilises, and lastly a float voltage wich is purely to offset the batteries self discharg characteristics. The figures vary from manufacturer to manufacturer depending on additives they may use in electrolytes and plates.

The initial charge current is usually a function of the capacity of the cell, the bigger the cell, the higher the current. If you tried used a contsant current of 20A on a 1ah battery there is a good chance of a meltdown. Typically the maximum charge capacity is about 0.3 x the capacity, so a 100AH battery can handle about 30A.

Temperature compensation is used primarily to adjust the charge voltage depending on the ambient temperature. Measuring temperature change and absolute temperature of the cells is typically reserved for fast charging and is used to terminate the charge as is tends to spike toward the end. This figures vary greatly from manufacturer to manufacturer, and is usually (not always) stated in the data sheets.

IF in doubt, the best place to look is in the manufacuters data sheets. MOst battery shops can give you the data sheets.

[Simmo2]

OK, I am slowly getting my thick head around this now!
So with a low impedance battery, that is flat obviously, instead of relying on simple Ohms law the charger ignores components of the formula and supplies constant current until the 'float voltage' is achieved???
This can/will cause the battery to heat up due to the PIV formula yes????
So temp compensation could be incorporated... but more basically float voltage monitoring to reduce or stop charging when the float voltage is achieved...
These smart chargers using smps etc ignore basic theory and charge in a manner that is more beneficial for the cell longivity???
Am I getting there?? or still way off???!!

[TheRealAndy]

OK, I am slowly getting my thick head around this now! So with a low impedance battery, that is flat obviously, instead of relying on simple Ohms law the charger ignores components of the formula and supplies constant current until the 'float voltage' is achieved???

Its not ignoring ohms law as such. The lower the terminal voltage of the battery, the more current its going to want to draw when charging. If you set the charge voltage to 2.3 volts initially, the battery will want to draw a lot more current.

(BTW: Impedance is a bad term to use, as it tyipcally means resistance to an AC waveform :) )



This can/will cause the battery to heat up due to the PIV formula yes????

Correct.



So temp compensation could be incorporated... but more basically float voltage monitoring to reduce or stop charging when the float voltage is achieved...


Temp compensation is used to compensate for ambient temperature, not battery temperature. You need to lower your charge voltage when ambient temperature rises, as the cell will start gassing at a lower voltage.

Charging is typically stopped when the the current draw stabilises. A charger will then switch to a float voltage which is lower than the charge voltage (charge voltage is often called topping voltage). There is one problem with this technique, and that is you cant have something connected to the battery when charging.

You could incorporate bat temp sensing to assist, but you could not rely upon it soley. For example, I can use a higher voltage, a lower current and still dissipate the same temp, however the higher voltage will cause gassing and grid corrosion.

Some high end commercial charges do indeed use sensors on cells, but this is a typically a safety measure. The detect temp change and absolute temperature of the battery. Excessive values of either usually indicates a problem with the charging. Note that other chemistry types such as NiMH often use temp sensing to fast charge.



These smart chargers using smps etc ignore basic theory and charge in a manner that is more beneficial for the cell longivity???
Am I getting there?? or still way off???!!

They dont ignore basic theory, they use it. In a high end system such as telco uses, the charger is usually built specifically for a single battery manufacturer. That way charge currents and voltages can be customised. That increases cell longivity, but also increase reliability,

However, using a supercheap 15buck charger means that you start with a low voltage and a high current. As the battery charges, the current decreases and voltage increase (they are not regulated) meaning that the battery gasses.

So spending a few more bucks is well worth. There is obviously a trade off between spending $15 and $5000, but if you life depended on it you probably woulg go for the top end! In my case I settled for a 3stage charger from supercheap which i think cost me $120bucks. I have tested it well, and its not the best but it is certainly not as bad as the $15 unit!

[TheRealAndy]

I forgot to mention, all my talk of 2.4 odd volts refers to the cell voltage. A 12v battery has 6 cells of course, so the charge voltage will be 6 times the single cell!

Cheers!

Andy.

[Simmo2]

I just took it as 2.4 above the 12....oh hangon...same same!! ; )