What Engine????

[Rod Fishing]

I was thinking of selling the Haines and getting something a little smaller. After having a long rethink I have decided that i will get a new engine for the old girl.

The dilema that have is that I dont know that much about engines. On her at the moment is a 150 oil injected Suzuki. I know that I want a 4 stroke but unsure of what hores to put behind her and what brand.

The boat is a Haines Signature 600LE with 165l fuel.

I was thinking that a 125/130 would push her easily. What does everyone think, what size, what brand and what will the approx cost be fitted.

Cheers Rod....

[Scott Ashe]

Hi Rod,

If you were looking at a new 4 stroke I would recommend the Yamaha, I have had one for almost 6 months and I am really happy with it.

In regards to what horsepower size, Yamaha have a 115 HP and then it jumps to a 150 HP. I have no idea what price these would be.

Hope this helps

Cheers
Scott

[bustastu]

Rod:

Keep the Haines, it looks like a nice rig.

I've got a 580 breeze with a 150 etec on it. Are you totally against 2 stroke DI's.

If you really wanted to go for a 4 stroke, a Suzuki 140 would be a good option.

BS

[Bonus]

Rod, I have a DF140 Suzuki XL shaft - 4 hour motor (new) advertised in the classifieds. Have a look, Bonus

[Rod Fishing]

Bonus,

If i was down your way would seriously consider your engne but since i am in townsvlle it will cost to much in freight to ship it up here plus the cost to get the suzi dealer to install it.

Bustastu, I really want a 4 stroke because of the fuel economy and the xtra range i will have.

Cheers Rod....

[ozbee]

on a weighty hull like yours chances are a di two stroke will outperform a fourstroke because of the weight and also the lift power of di two strokes you will less likely to have to down pitch losing top end and fuel economy especially in old hulls that are designed for lighter engines. though four strokes are coming down in weight. fuel economy is much the same di, fourstroke

[Shanoss]

on a weighty hull like yours chances are a di two stroke will outperform a fourstroke because of the weight and also the lift power of di two strokes you will less likely to have to down pitch losing top end and fuel economy especially in old hulls that are designed for lighter engines. though four strokes are coming down in weight. fuel economy is much the same di, fourstroke


What do you mean by "lift power"? I think you a sorely missnformed mate. My 4 stroke swings a much bigger prop than my old 2 banger. I too have a weighty hulll in a an old V213C and get a higher top end speed spinning a bigger prop. None of what you have said makes any sense at all

[leezor]

Hey Rod, don't let the 2 stroke brigade talk you out of what you want mate ;) Seriosuly tho, which dealer do you feel most comfortable with here in Townsville, that should probably be the deciding factor really.
No offence to the Etec boys, but the BRP dealer here did nothing but bag the other brands when I was looking including Honda, which they also happen to sell. it was Etec this and Etec that, really peeved me off to be honest so I went elsewhere.
Anyway, good luck with your decision but my advise would be regardless of the brand buy from the dealer who you feel most comfortable dealing with.

Just be carefull with additional weight on your transom, is a good idea to calculate how much extra weight your new engine will be and put it on the back in a sand bag or I will loan you my teenage son to sit on the cowl of old Suzuki to see if it causes any problems. :o

Lee

[revs57]

Yeah Rod,

I've heard the hole shot, wont lift, yarda, yarda talk too. I couldn't be happier with my f200 yam on the 6.5mt Riptide, very snappy out of the hole and very responsive when underway too. Excellent fuel economy 18 litres per hour on normal running.

Mate I'd check out Bonus's motor...its keenly prices, add a grand for freight and fitting, you've still got money left over for fuel. Trewins run to Townsville and from memory I remember being pleasantly surprised with their quote to run a motor there when I had an enquiry on the 150 merc I still have for sale.

Cheers

Rhys

[Rod Fishing]

Thanks for the advice Lee and Revs,

Lee I think that i might have to look further aboard because i was thinking either Suzuki or Honda, same dealer. Its not that I dont trust him but I have heard some really bad stories.

In regaurds to weight i have been led to beleive that the Hondas are a very light 4 banger somethng like a Honda 90 weights the same as a Suzuki 60.

Lots of food for thought but do you think that the step down in power will effect the ride/performance. Considering now I can get almost 40knots out of her.

Cheers Rod....

P.S. Its good to be back from Darwin...

[leezor]

Mate, what is the maximum HP rating of the hull? If you like the Suzuki, the 175hp might be the go. When I was looking the 175hp was almost as much as the 200, though the 175 is just over 40kg lighter which may be more suited to your boat. I could of got away with the 175hp on mine, but plan on getting a bigger hull in the future so went with the maximum hp I could.
Drop me an email at work tomorrow if you want to come around and have a squiz.

Lee

[disorderly]

hey Lee
I just gotta wonder if you and shane are on commission from haines/suzuki.?http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/grin.gif

[leezor]

hey Lee
I just gotta wonder if you and shane are on commission from haines/suzuki.?http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/grin.gif

Thats funny Scott, because Shane and I were saying the same about you and BRP, though I must admit, it was after a few Bourbons and Coronas yesterday afternoon.;D
Mate you know not to take anything we say to seriously, though Shane has been known to troll the odd lure around here looking for a bite. Its all good fun and can't wait to catch up for a cold one up your way one day.

Lee

[Shanoss]

hey Lee
I just gotta wonder if you and shane are on commission from haines/suzuki.?http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/grin.gif


I bet Evinrude pay better though hey Scott?:P

[Shanoss]

Thats funny Scott, because Shane and I were saying the same about you and BRP, though I must admit, it was after a few Bourbons and Coronas yesterday afternoon.;D
Mate you know not to take anything we say to seriously, though Shane has been known to troll the odd lure around here looking for a bite. Its all good fun and can't wait to catch up for a cold one up your way one day.

Lee


Ditto to what Lee said

[disorderly]

Thats funny Scott, because Shane and I were saying the same about you and BRP, though I must admit, it was after a few Bourbons and Coronas yesterday afternoon.;D
Mate you know not to take anything we say to seriously, though Shane has been known to troll the odd lure around here looking for a bite. Its all good fun and can't wait to catch up for a cold one up your way one day.

Lee

No worries fella's.
Just going to go and have a couple of beers with my E-tec.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/grin.gif

Scott

[Rod Fishing]

Approx weight of boat is 700kg, max HP 150, max engine weight 230kg, transom height 20.

Got this info off the Haines Signature website, depending on price it is still a toss up between honda and Suzuki.

I still think that I could drop 20 or so horses without effecting the ride etc.

[Shanoss]

No worries fella's.
Just going to go and have a couple of beers with my E-tec.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/grin.gif

Scott


I heard that pouring beer into an Etec is the only way to get the tell tale working properly.....

[leezor]

Approx weight of boat is 700kg, max HP 150, max engine weight 230kg, transom height 20.

Got this info off the Haines Signature website, depending on price it is still a toss up between honda and Suzuki.

I still think that I could drop 20 or so horses without effecting the ride etc.

Your boat is a smilar weight to mine and I reckon mine would be underpowered with anything less than a 175.
Interesting that your boat has the 20' transom, keep that in mind when your getting your prices.
What was the price difference between the BF130 and BF150?
There is about $3500 - $4000 price difference between the Suzuki 140 to 150.

Lee

[Rod Fishing]

Unsure of the differences in price between the BFs.

Cant believe $3500-$4000 difference between the Dfs.

Rod....

[PADDLES]

g'day rod, the 150 sooz is the next size motor up from the 140 and so that's probably the reason for the price hike. ie. the 140 is the largest rating for the size of block that it's got (ie. the 90/115/140 share bits) and the 150 is the smallest rating for it's block (ie. 150/175 range). if your hull only weight is only 700kg and you don't have heaps of weight on board the 140 should be quite adequate. the yamaha 4s jumps from 115 to 150 and mercury only have supercharged ones over 115hp so for the size you reckon you need suzuki is really your only option in the 4 strokes. in the di 2 strokes the etecs jump from 115 to 150 but mercury optimax comes in a 135 which would be a pretty good size/weight for your boat. keep an eye on the weight of the motor as well for use on an older hull that's not designed for these new heavier 4s motors.

[Rod Fishing]

Thanks paddles,

A 150 Suzuki and Honda both are under the max weight form the transome. So that isnt the concern, the dollar factor is the biggest thing that i am worried about aswell as not putting to much weight on the back of her. I also dont her to under-perform, thats why i was thnking the DF140. Havent really had a look at the Yammys yet will look into that today sometime.

Cheers Rod....

[Rod Fishing]

Just had a look in a Yammy book and the weight of the 2008 150hp 4 stroke is only 220kg so that also is within me limits if the boat.

What i need to know now is which is the best engine for the amount of money i am going to pay.

Cheers Rod....

[ozbee]

shannos if you think a four stroke will lift like a di two stroke out of the water your dreaming mate stop . i own a four stroke as well as a di then again most people own light boats these days as far as i see four strokes are king in the alloy market but when it comes down to old heavy fiberglass and tend to load up for long distances the di are superior especially in heavy seas just get over it different techonolgies have different hi points but obviously you cant see over brand label

[PADDLES]

they're all good rod. i'd be going on local service and then price.

ozbee is right, if it's straight out performance then the di 2s will always have a quicker hit because they fire twice as much as a 4s. it just comes down to whether you want to take a risk on the injection technology or not with a di 2s.

[mirage]

Rod, I am not a mate of Bonus's but as Rhys said it's a pretty good price for what is basically a brand new DF 140. It'd push your boat along OK compared to the 150's. It's about 30kg lighter than the DF 150 too.

[Rod Fishing]

Stl want to price the hondas, fuel economy is also a bit one thats why i am tendingto lean towards a 4 stroke.

Cheers Rod....

[Bonus]

What engine, what engine, what engine? Rod I am making a few enquiries with respect to transport to see if I can do it with ease, cost effectively and safely. Bonus

[Shanoss]

shannos if you think a four stroke will lift like a di two stroke out of the water your dreaming mate stop . i own a four stroke as well as a di then again most people own light boats these days as far as i see four strokes are king in the alloy market but when it comes down to old heavy fiberglass and tend to load up for long distances the di are superior especially in heavy seas just get over it different techonolgies have different hi points but obviously you cant see over brand label

You have failed to address your comment regarding props, which is what i was interested in. And it has nothing to do with brand loyalty. Its more about technology. Wonder why all the MotoGP bikes went to four stroke? Something to do with an enormous power advantage i think... I honestly have nothing against DI 2 Strokes apart from the ridiculous marketing, i just happen to think that 4 Strokes are a vastly superior engine..

[Rod Fishing]

Shaoss,

The queston of propping will be dealt with after i have choosen a new engine. dont really know what size or pitch i will have but i am sure that there are a plethera of people out there that will be able to give me some far dnka no bullshit advice.

CHeers Rod....

[Bonus]

Rod Fishing, My motor is XL leg 25 inch and it will not suit your boat?
Bonus

[disorderly]

4 Strokes are a vastly superior engine..

Now you really are off with the fairies,shane.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/rolleyes.gif
Could you please explain the reasoning behind this statement.

Rod,

You mention that one of your main reasons for wanting a 4 stroke is fuel efficiency.
Mate, I think if you do some research you will find that the new breed of DI 2 stroke is very similar to 4's in regard to fuel usage.

Scott

[Rod Fishing]

Bonus,

Thanks for all your help and assistance. I hope that the sale goes well I am sure that your donk wont last long.

Scott,

wwWill go and talk to a few dealers tomorrow about the fuel efficency, I still havent ruled out a DI 2 stroke.

Cheers Rod....

Rod...

[Vitamin Sea]

Thanks paddles,

A 150 Suzuki and Honda both are under the max weight form the transome. So that isnt the concern, the dollar factor is the biggest thing that i am worried about aswell as not putting to much weight on the back of her. I also dont her to under-perform, thats why i was thnking the DF140. Havent really had a look at the Yammys yet will look into that today sometime.

Cheers Rod....

G'Day Rod

150 Opti, 195 Kg, as is the 175, as is the 135, (2.5 litre blocks).

Re: Fuel economy, I doubt any of the 4 bangers would get any better economy than these motors.

I have a 200 Opti on the back of my heavy old Haines ( 19C ), gives what I believe outstanding economy ~2 km/L and I do tend to hit it a bit, because I can;D

Goes like a shower of sh*t, jumps onto the plane, cruise 50 k's an hour.

Do not discount DI 2 strokes.

Will not enter into etec V Zuk v Honda V Opti V yammy debate

Something to consider

Cheers

Bill

[jigsnreels]

Here's my 2 stroke/4stroke experience, for what it's worth.

Had a 2s 115 yammie on my old boat (5.4 fg) and it was really good.

Swapped it for a 4s yam 115 and with the prop that came with the motor it was a dog.

Replaced that prop with a solas 4 blade job and it was way bettert han the 2 s ever was.

I don't buy the "4 strokes lack grunt" story at all.

Cheers,
Jigs

[Rod Fishing]

Thanks Bill to honest i hadnt really even considered an opti but i wil now, I will be talking with all the dealers tomorrow so I guess i will make my decision then.

2km/l sounds pretty good.

Cheers Rod....

[Shanoss]

Now you really are off with the fairies,shane.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/rolleyes.gif
Could you please explain the reasoning behind this statement.

Rod,

You mention that one of your main reasons for wanting a 4 stroke is fuel efficiency.
Mate, I think if you do some research you will find that the new breed of DI 2 stroke is very similar to 4's in regard to fuel usage.

Scott

Scott, Have you ever had a two stroke dirt bike? how often did these motors need to be rebuilt? There is very little R&d going into two stroke motors. Most manufactures are going with with four strokes as their premier product. To tell the truth, i'm a bit over it all though. I'm pleased you like your Etec so much, i do know the feeling but with a different product. I do like to try and liven things up a bit though as you know.

[disorderly]

Scott, Have you ever had a two stroke dirt bike? how often did these motors need to be rebuilt?

Matter of fact shane, I've had both a 2 stroke motocrosser(yammy YZ) and 4 stroke trail bikes(honda XR was one) when I was younger.
The XR was a pain in the ass.To many little things to go wrong.Timing chains and the like.
The YZ was a ton of fun(luv that powerband...http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/cool.gif) and no problems.
Occasionally required new piston and rings which was a very simple process.
Only to be expected with the treatment it got.

Its pretty irrelevent comparison when compared to marine engines though.

Although in reality I'll probably put a 4 stroke on the back of my next boat.
I'm getting a little old to have too much fun and its time I started to slow down a bit.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/wink.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/grin.gif

[Rod Fishing]

Well todays the day when i go out and find what enne is oing to be sitting onthe back of my boat. Thanks for all your input and banter.

In reality though i really thnk that i will be getting a 4 banger and probably a Suzuki or Honda.

Cheers Rod....

[PADDLES]

shanoss, sorry to pull ya up here champ but motogp didn't go to 1000cc 4s for an "enormous power advantage". it was done because 4s engines are so linear and smooth in their power delivery it let more riders be competitive and also had the effect/illusion that the sport was more environmentally friendly. there were only a few blokes on the planet at any one time that could ever ride a 500cc 2s properly and not have poo in their leathers. look at how many more riders are competitive this year now they dropped it to an 800cc formula. i'm with disorderly here, i can pull down my cr and give it some love in an hour or 2 (depending on how many shed beers i have) it's stupidly simple, i've got other mates with 4s bikes and it's ridiculous how much maintenance they've got to do, oil and filters nearly every ride and valve springs every few races or so. you gotta remember the basics shane, a 4s has to rev nearly twice as much to make the same power. that being said i've now got a 4s outboard and it's awesome, turn the key and it starts first time every time, i only have to visually inspect it and then wait for the service light to flash on the dash.

[Shanoss]

shanoss, sorry to pull ya up here champ but motogp didn't go to 1000cc 4s for an "enormous power advantage". it was done because 4s engines are so linear and smooth in their power delivery it let more riders be competitive and also had the effect/illusion that the sport was more environmentally friendly. there were only a few blokes on the planet at any one time that could ever ride a 500cc 2s properly and not have poo in their leathers. look at how many more riders are competitive this year now they dropped it to an 800cc formula. i'm with disorderly here, i can pull down my cr and give it some love in an hour or 2 (depending on how many shed beers i have) it's stupidly simple, i've got other mates with 4s bikes and it's ridiculous how much maintenance they've got to do, oil and filters nearly every ride and valve springs every few races or so. you gotta remember the basics shane, a 4s has to rev nearly twice as much to make the same power. that being said i've now got a 4s outboard and it's awesome, turn the key and it starts first time every time, i only have to visually inspect it and then wait for the service light to flash on the dash.

Fair enough.. makes sense to me.

[Rod Fishing]

Ok here come the prices, please let me know what you think? too high or reasonable.

All prices except for the Mercury includes fitting, removal and hydrolic steering.

Suzuki DF140 $18670, DF 150 $22620

Honda BF 135 $16295, BF 150 $21350

Yammy F150 $21790+prop, Z150 $21050

Etec 150 $19500

Merc Verado 150 $21110 + fitting

Merc Optimax 150 $17551 + fittng + gauges.

Well there you go i spent almost all day getting quotes. Ijust hope that the missus goes for the idea, she did at first but she was didnt know exactly how much it was going to cost.

Cheers Rod....

[FNQCairns]

Ok here come the prices, please let me know what you think? too high or reasonable.

All prices except for the Mercury includes fitting, removal and hydrolic steering.

Suzuki DF140 $18670, DF 150 $22620

Honda BF 135 $16295, BF 150 $21350

Yammy F150 $21790+prop, Z150 $21050

Etec 150 $19500

Merc Verado 150 $21110 + fitting

Merc Optimax 150 $17551 + fittng + gauges.

Well there you go i spent almost all day getting quotes. Ijust hope that the missus goes for the idea, she did at first but she was didnt know exactly how much it was going to cost.

Cheers Rod....

Holy snap!! those prices are terrifying!!! I am stepping outside to go hug my smelly!

cheers fnq

[mirage]

Don't know about the others Rod but those Zukes are VERY expensive!!
I have just put a deposit on two DF140's, fitted, for $30,000.
There have been a few boat shows down this way recently and I think deals are being done. Last weekend was the Sunshine Coast show, maybe you could call some dealers there.
Just a thought.

[disorderly]

Seems to be quite a considerable price difference between the 4 strokes and the DI 2 strokes.
I didnt realize quite how much,though.

Perhaps if you asked your dealer to remove shanoss's commission on the suzuki it might even be affordablehttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/grin.gif

Seriously though Rod,how does these prices influence your decision?
I mean over 3 grand difference between E-tec and Suzuki.That's going to buy a lot of XD 100 isn't it!

Scott

[honda900]

Dont know if this helps but brissy prices, and general info.

Make rpm spd Fuel Weight boat weight Price

Suzuki df 150 4000 40.5 25.3lt / hr 215
Yam f150 4000 44.5 24.6 220 16000
Optimax 150 4000 48.1 25.7 195
Yam 150 hpdi 4000 59 25.6 222

Suzi 140 4000 41.9 20.9 190 1350 14200 + Prop + fitting
Honda 135 4000 44.2 20.6 217 CCr575 17500
honda 130 4000 39 25 1400
Honda 150 217 19000


Yam 130 4000 42 30 171

Regards
HOnda

[Vitamin Sea]

Ok here come the prices, please let me know what you think? too high or reasonable.

All prices except for the Mercury includes fitting, removal and hydrolic steering.

Suzuki DF140 $18670, DF 150 $22620

Honda BF 135 $16295, BF 150 $21350

Yammy F150 $21790+prop, Z150 $21050

Etec 150 $19500

Merc Verado 150 $21110 + fitting

Merc Optimax 150 $17551 + fittng + gauges.

Well there you go i spent almost all day getting quotes. Ijust hope that the missus goes for the idea, she did at first but she was didnt know exactly how much it was going to cost.

Cheers Rod....

G'Day Rod

I just got a price for the 150 Opti, 20" Shaft, gauges and SS prop included, $16'700 FITTED on your boat, steering about $1000 extra fitted, remove existing motor, about $100.00

Cheers

Bill

[Vitamin Sea]

Seems to be quite a considerable price difference between the 4 strokes and the DI 2 strokes.
I didnt realize quite how much,though.

Perhaps if you asked your dealer to remove shanoss's commission on the suzuki it might even be affordablehttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/grin.gif

Seriously though Rod,how does these prices influence your decision?
I mean over 3 grand difference between E-tec and Suzuki.That's going to buy a lot of XD 100 isn't it!

Scott

You are right Scott, when I was looking around the dealers here wanted 23 1/2K + fitting + gauges etc for a 175 Zuk.

I got the 200 Opti, fitted, with everything including hydraulic steer for $18500 for memory.

Go figure

Cheers

Bill

[Rod Fishing]

Guys dont forget this is Townsville you have to pay for freight then double it.

[Fish Guts]

Rod,

going price is around 14600 fitted for a df140, plus hydraulic steering. the suzuki dealer up there is pulling your leg. best of luck with it all.


cheers

fish guts

[leezor]

Rod, Satisfaction Marine in Brisvegas have the DF140 @ $15786 and the DF150 @ $19419 listed on their website.
Tell him he's dreamin..... Haggle with him mate, he will make out that his family is starving and will not eat for a month because he is losing so much money on the deal but all in all he is approachable and from my experience was close to Satisfactions listed prices.
When I priced the Etec, I found it didn't include prop or gauges etc and by the time I added them all up it was more than both the Honda and Suzuki.
The Opti deal sounds pretty good, though don't reckon you could go to far wrong with which ever one you choose. Just depends on what funds the finance minister is willing to "invest" in this project i guess :)

Lee

http://www.satisfactionmarine.com.au/site/public/index.php?pageid=10042&type=New&make=3

[Rod Fishing]

Lee i just added to the price fitting and hydrolic streering to the opti and it comes in at about $19450.00, Verado 150 about $22810.

The DF140 is a better price, 10 less horse though.

Verado looking alright.

Cheers Rod....

[leezor]

The new generation Verado is quite impressive, they weigh in at 231kgs (10kg's or so more than the DF150) for the 25" and the DTS (Digital Throttle & Shift) feature is a bonus!
Read somewhere that Mercury claim substantional improvements to fuel economy with the new generation aswell.

Lee

[Rod Fishing]

I am going to talk to the boos and see what she will let me spend hope its enough to get the verado..

[leezor]

All the best mate, one other thing check on the srvice costs of the Verado. I was talking to a bloke at Ross Island a few months back and the 100hr service on the ALTC cats were around $1000 each! They have twin 275hp Verados, but being a government department we generally get charged top $.
Worth checking out tho.

Lee

[Rod Fishing]

I worked with 35 last year, I know how expensive they are to be serviced. It was really pissing off the QM.

Servicing is a factor however what i save in fuel will more than pay for the service.

I have been told that I can spend the money but have to sell the Hilux and salary sacrifice a new Navara or Prado, which I dont really mind doing new 4x4 and a new donk and possibly new targa and clears.

By the way do you know a marine sparky who can rewire, last time i went out i lost all electrics to the accesories about 25kms off and i have decded to rewire the whole boat.

Cheers Rod....

[leezor]

I worked with 35 last year, I know how expensive they are to be serviced. It was really pissing off the QM.

Servicing is a factor however what i save in fuel will more than pay for the service.

I have been told that I can spend the money but have to sell the Hilux and salary sacrifice a new Navara or Prado, which I dont really mind doing new 4x4 and a new donk and possibly new targa and clears.

By the way do you know a marine sparky who can rewire, last time i went out i lost all electrics to the accesories about 25kms off and i have decded to rewire the whole boat.

Cheers Rod....

Thats good news mate, a new car, donk and clears, BONUS!
I can't see why the Verado would cost any more than any other 4 stroke to service, I put it down the contractor making an easy buck, its unfortunate but it does happen.
Don't know any marine/autoelecs personally, though have used Glenns Auto's on Ingham road alot when I was an apprentice. They had a relly good rep back then, might be worth asking if they would do a boat job.
Will have to do a trip to the reef with both boats once your up and running again, though you can almost guarantee the weather will be perfect while your boat is getting fitted, then turns to 30knots the day you pick it up!

Cheers,

Lee

[Vitamin Sea]

I worked with 35 last year, I know how expensive they are to be serviced. It was really pissing off the QM.

Servicing is a factor however what i save in fuel will more than pay for the service.

I have been told that I can spend the money but have to sell the Hilux and salary sacrifice a new Navara or Prado, which I dont really mind doing new 4x4 and a new donk and possibly new targa and clears.

By the way do you know a marine sparky who can rewire, last time i went out i lost all electrics to the accesories about 25kms off and i have decded to rewire the whole boat.

Cheers Rod....

G'Day Rod

A bit out of left field, but is a trip to Brisbane out of the question to get a new donk, let it be Opti, Verado or whatever?

2 day's would pull it up if the dealer played the game.

Quite possibly save a couple of K's

Just a thought

Cheers

Bill

Cheers

[Rod Fishing]

Bll,

Will be headed down that way over christmas spending a week at Rainbow beach then a week in Brisbane. I have emailed a couple of dealers and awaiting their response.


Cheers Rod....

[pilchardjones]

rod,
this has sure generated some feedback.
IMHO i think the 140 suzuki is the motor for you. I am in townsville also, and i recently bought one from Johno at j and B marine in Ingham. They are excellent to deal with and come to tsv nearly every week for servicing trips. I was very happy with the price also.
My deal was complicated as i traded a near new 115 yamaha 4 stroke, but i think $16K fitted is around the right money for NQ.
Steve

[Lutjanus johnii]

Pilchards on a winner there. I have also heard that J&B marine in ingham are the best for Suzuki in NQ. But have also heard that Rising Sun Marine is changing hands. Maybe the Yammies will be a little more competitive. Otherwise the Yammy dealer in Ayr is cheap as well. IMO

[Dicko]

There's dozens of mercs in townsville sold & serviced by J & B in Ingham. Have heard many good reports of them. It looks like Suzuki sales are heading the same way. Which doesn't really say a lot for our few local marine dealerships.

They drop down for regualr servicing runs, or being only an hour up the road is easy to drop up there and work in with a fishing trip too.

[Wahoo]

Lee i just added to the price fitting and hydrolic streering to the opti and it comes in at about $19450.00, Verado 150 about $22810.

The DF140 is a better price, 10 less horse though.

Verado looking alright.

Cheers Rod....

Hi Rod
i really hope you get to go for a run in a Verado before you buy any other motor
these things are outstanding, from out of the hole all the way to WOT it pulls harder than Keven Rudd ;D
that $ 22810 is that for the L4 motor? if so tell them to sharpen there pencil as i made a few calls and the price was $1500 cheaper fitted also dont know where the hell they came up with $1000 100hr service from
ohhh another thing....... the 2008 motors are out now so ATM there is a few specials going on the 2007 motors, make a few calls around

good luck with what ever you end up with, im sure you will enjoy it ;)

Daz

[Rod Fishing]

Thanks for all the info and help guys it has been ery valuable.

My missus has cracked a darky and doesnt want me to spend more tha $12000 on a engine so I am now in the mearket for a relitivly new 2nd hand donk. I would prefer a Suzuki, Honda or if i really had too an Opti. I am looking in the 150hp range.

Once again thank you all very much.

Cheers Rod....

[Oog.]

Thanks for all the info and help guys it has been ery valuable.

My missus has cracked a darky and doesnt want me to spend more tha $12000 on a engine so I am now in the mearket for a relitivly new 2nd hand donk. I would prefer a Suzuki, Honda or if i really had too an Opti. I am looking in the 150hp range.

Once again thank you all very much.

Cheers Rod....

Hi Rod, i know how that feels, I want to upgrade my DF140 and have had to do a lot of convincing that we "need" to spend more
I have sent you a PM
Ross

[KAGEY1]

tell her it's your life at stake out there and the extra money spent will be worth it to have you come home safely! lol
then get a newie!

[Oog.]

I think the safety issue is the most important one
It worked when we had to get a new chartplotter to find our way home in the dark ;)

[Rod Fishing]

OOG how much are you looking at for your engine and where about are you located. Are you going to be selling it with gauges or not?

Cheers Rod....

[Oog.]

Hi Rod, I was thinking around $12,300 and that would be with a brand new standard rigging kit as i would leave my rigging kit as is for the next motor.
Suzuki of course;D
I am at Gin Gin
cheers
Ross

[Scott nthQld]

Been through this a while back.

Angus smith marine are your e-tec dealers

Rising Sun for Yamaha

Leo's for suzuki

Motor marine for Merc.

Went aroung to all the dealers, the e-tec's are a good option but are a lot more pricer than others even compared to 4 strokes. Longer service periods, which made me a little sceptical, but they made up for that in the cost of a service.

The suzuki is a good option and in the right price range (for us), and had very good performance figures but the engine was almost 20% heavier than other makes, that one was skipped as well.

We ended up going with a new Yammie 4st 60hp as the merc's were very close in price etc but servicing was more frequent and more expensive, also the sales people weren't much help, only interested in splitting us from our hard earned dollars. Ended up costing $8,200 installed, with new mechanical steering from rising sun, this was also with a trade in of a '92 mariner 50hp oil injected 2Str. The guys at rising sun were a lot more helpful and seemed more interested in our business than the others, so that was a plus as well. After sales service has been great, so no complaints about them at all from this end. Also the engine performance is fantastic which is probably the most important thing.

Hope that helps a bit in your decision.

[Oog.]

Been through this a while back.


The suzuki is a good option and in the right price range (for us), and had very good performance figures but the engine was almost 20% heavier than other makes, that one was skipped as well.


Gidday Scott, the suzis in the 60 HP range are heavier, but in the 140 HP range are lighter ie
suzi DF 140 - 191 kg
Suzi DF 150 - 215kg
Yamy F115 - 193 kg
Yamy F 150 - 220 kg
Honda BF 115 - 225 kg
Honda BF 135 - 217 kg
Honda BF 150 - 217 kg

There is not a real lot of difference really so it just makes the choice of what motor to buy all the more difficult, but as leezor said "once you have had black ...."

[Rod Fishing]

Oog what size shaft is on your is L or XL?

[Oog.]

Hi Rod
leg is XL - 25"

[Knotpretty]

Rod BM gave me good advice watch the weight of the new motor. Std 2 strokes are a little lighter. I'm upgrading to a 70 hp Yamie or 75 hp Towie decision not made yet.

Gotto go fish are calling "EAT ME"

[Oog.]

I have added etecs to the weight list to cover all sides

etec 115 - 170 kg
etec 150 - 194kg

suzi DF 140 - 191 kg
Suzi DF 150 - 215kg
Yamy F115 - 193 kg
Yamy F 150 - 220 kg
Honda BF 115 - 225 kg
Honda BF 135 - 217 kg
Honda BF 150 - 217 kg

[Rod Fishing]

Oog,

My transome height is only 20" so i require a l shaft. Bonus' engine was the same.

TWo good priced engines that i would love to have but the wrong shaft size.

[Oog.]

Thats a bummer Rod, I guess there are a lot more XL motors around than L's
I hope your search won't last too long and you are away again soon:)

[Rod Fishing]

Lee,

Re Ebay, have asked the guy a few questions, will wait and see what he comes back with, you might be right feedback makes him look dodgy.

Cheers Rod....

[leezor]

No worries Rod, will let you know if I spot anything else.

Lee

[Rod Fishing]

Thanks heaps. Should be back at work tomorrow. I hope getting bored sitting at home. Have to a bronkial cough and the doc tols me to have a week off.

[Rod Fishing]

Lee,

That donk was very well priced pity about the shaft though, 25".

Oh well cant win them all.

Rod....

[Red_Nut]

Rod- I can just picture Kylie's response with the new donk prices :) I would have difficulty convincing Jade we need a new motor if the current one if working ok.

Is there any issues with the Suzi other than fuel usage? Is it worth the $ to change over?

Fingers crossed the weather plays the game and we might get a quick trip out when you come through in December. We are looking forward to having the two little families catch up.

Cheers.

Ed.

[Noelm]

if the motor is a real good buy, there is ways to fit a 25 to a 20" transom, and it even has some advantages as well!

[wheezer]

Noelm you hit the nail on the head...the way i see it you have 2 options....

1. expensive way...have your transom rebuilt and raised at the same time

2. cheap way....have some adaptor plates fabricated...my old man who is an engineer had this done on our old haines V19C back in the 90's...had them made from 2 pieces of 20 or 25mm aluminium plate, can't remember. necessary holes and slots were cut into each piece to accomodate bolts then they were welded together. worked a treat, we bolted up an XL shaft 3 litre merc and hey presto!

[Noelm]

no need to even make them yourself, there is a dozen types available from simple bolt on, to adjustable bolt on, to hydraulic adjustable while you are running models, the straight out adapters are quite cheap, the advantage of going the 25" path is the fact that the powerheaed is another 5" out of the water, always thought it strange why the chose 5" increments, 6" would be a sort of logical measurement, for no other eason, then we could have 2' or 1.5 foot or something, anyway, I am rambling (as usual)

[berger]

Thanks Bill to honest i hadnt really even considered an opti but i wil now, I will be talking with all the dealers tomorrow so I guess i will make my decision then.

2km/l sounds pretty good.

Cheers Rod....
hi ive got a 175hp opimax on the back of an 565 edencraft. excelent economy and power, ive only been in the boat about six times so far .does 40km for 24 to 25 litres of fuel running at approx 70km an hour ,im very happy. im not trying to twist your arm just putting through a point of view stats i got from fuel computer.also i have found that a lot of motors can weight the same. basically be the same engine but the bores ect are bigger so i figured for instance if i get have 175hp for the same weight as a 150hp i have that extra power in to call upon and most of the time when the weather allows i run at 3/4 throttle. i have found you can never have enough hp and usually if you buy a motor in the lower than recommended hp compared to hull weight you tend to be running flat stick or close to it and that obviously when you use the most fuel. and most of us fish when it not blowing a gale. and if you are anything like me i like to get to my spots at a good speed if the weather allows. anyway good luck which ever donk you choose

[Rod Fishing]

Ed.

Thinking about towing the boat down over Xmas so we might put her in when we get to yours take you, Cameron, and your dad and Ryan out and go for a fish. That is if your've got any marks for a bit wider. or we could just fsh the creek in yours.

Cheers Rod....

[merc mech]

the 135 or 150 mercury optimax will kill the four strokes in performance and power to weight.what you want to know is how far you are going on the fuel you are burning this is where the di motors get the advantage by traveling faster for less revs

[Redbream]

Yep. Have to aggree with Merc there completly. Was involved in a multi boat cruise/fishing trip about 1 year ago and there were two Opti's, 1 200hp and 1 225hp. 1 200hp Etec and a 200hp JohnZuki 4 stroke.

About 200km were travelled for the trip at mostly a fast cruise, 4500ish rpm, and at the end of it, the 4 stroke had used 80L more fuel:o .

When we were running at 4500rpm, he was doing 5000rpm to keep up, hence using far more fuel/ km. Not suprising, the motor was sold for and opti and it was only 12 months old. Think its still for sale actualy;D


RB.

[leezor]

Yep. Have to aggree with Merc there completly. Was involved in a multi boat cruise/fishing trip about 1 year ago and there were two Opti's, 1 200hp and 1 225hp. 1 200hp Etec and a 200hp JohnZuki 4 stroke.

About 200km were travelled for the trip at mostly a fast cruise, 4500ish rpm, and at the end of it, the 4 stroke had used 80L more fuel:o .

When we were running at 4500rpm, he was doing 5000rpm to keep up, hence using far more fuel/ km. Not suprising, the motor was sold for and opti and it was only 12 months old. Think its still for sale actualy;D
RB.

RB, some bloody awesome fuel figures you getting out of a DI 2 Stroke there mate. If the bloke with the JohnZuki figures are anything like my 225hp Suzuki then the DI 2 strokes would have used less than 40lt of fuel for the 200km trip.
Would love to know where to get my hands on one of these engines that burn 1 litre per 5km :D

[Redbream]

I'll make it simple for you then leezor......

We used 140L for the 200km = 1.42 km/l

He used 220L for the 200km = 0.91km/l.

Got that? Where do you get the 5km/L bit from? He had to drive it so much harder to keep up, more revs = more fuel burn. Not rocket science.

Like MM said, you travel faster with a di 2 at less revs. Simple really;)

[Luke G]

Not to sure how he didn't get better fuel economy. We used to get 1.4-5km/l at 5000rpm with a 250 suzuki on a heavy boat, Lezzor you have a 225 what;s your fuel economy at 5000?

Cheers

[Redbream]

It was on an old Carribean Reef Runner spinning a 17p suzuki prop.

It was no speed demon thats for sure. Top speed of only about 68-70 kph. Whereas my Haines 635L with 225 opti, does 85 kph. Other boats will be much better than this one, but thats how it was.

[Shanoss]

Sounds to me like he may have been propped incorrectly. I have a 200hp suzuki on a Haines Hunter 213c and i'm getting much better fuel economy than that at 5000rpm. And i dare say the Haines would weigh a bit more than the reef runner.

[disorderly]

If I have said it once I've said it a thousand times....

Just what are the advantages(if any) of the heavier ,more sluggish and more costly to maintain(and run by the look of it) 4 stroke outboard?

I can only think its the Lemming syndrome...

[Shanoss]

Come on Scott. You cant take Redbream's figures as gospel. Of all the arguments i've heard and taken part in, i've never heard that DI 2 Strokes are more fuel efficient. Nevermind that we have not even heard what the 2 Strokes in his "Story" were actually pushing... Could have been, and i'll bet, they were plateys. On one hand you have a naturally efficient motor (4 stroke), and on the other you have 2 stroke, which are not. Redbreams figures seem to have a little of the Etec spin to them IMO.

[disorderly]

Shane of course they are true..
I read it on the internethttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/wink.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/grin.gif.

[Shanoss]

Shane of course they are true..
I read it on the internethttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/wink.gifhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/grin.gif.\

What was i thinking then??:-/

[leezor]

I'll make it simple for you then leezor......

We used 140L for the 200km = 1.42 km/l

He used 220L for the 200km = 0.91km/l.

Got that? Where do you get the 5km/L bit from? He had to drive it so much harder to keep up, more revs = more fuel burn. Not rocket science.

Like MM said, you travel faster with a di 2 at less revs. Simple really;)

The last trip I did that was around 200km, my zuke burned under 120lt of fuel.
Even at WOT I still get 1.13km per litre, and that is sitting on just over 80k's.
Anyway, as long as your happy with 1.42km/l thats all that counts. :-X

[Redbream]

Come on Scott. You cant take Redbream's figures as gospel. Of all the arguments i've heard and taken part in, i've never heard that DI 2 Strokes are more fuel efficient. Nevermind that we have not even heard what the 2 Strokes in his "Story" were actually pushing... Could have been, and i'll bet, they were plateys. On one hand you have a naturally efficient motor (4 stroke), and on the other you have 2 stroke, which are not. Redbreams figures seem to have a little of the Etec spin to them IMO.



Shanoss. Since when are the new DI 2strokes not efficient????


As for the Etec spin, well you can stick your Etec where you want;) . I have never said that DI is better than 4 stroke, infact next time around, Suzuki will be on the list depending on the $$$$ factor, but, in this instance the DI's out did the 4 stroke by a country mile.


Does this look like a platey to you?


http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb5/haines635l/635.jpg

[Vitamin Sea]

Guy's

Here are some figures since I have had the 200 Opti, mixture of hard running, trolling, crabbing, S%it weather, etc, etc, 19C Haines, loaded most times

I stress, these are average figures over all conditions

Done 60.6 Hrs
Travelled 1201.9 KM
Fuel 763.06 Litres ( @ $1.20L = $915.67 :-X )
KM/L 1.69
Litres / hr 12.59

Real numbers

Cheers
Bill

[Redbream]

Thanks Bill. Some good numbers there for an inefficient old 2 stroke::)


Smart Craft is good stuff dont you reckon?. They almost line up with what my 225 does.

Cheers RB.

[Shanoss]

I dont recall saying DI 2 strokes are not efficient. But i have certainly not heard it argued that they are as efficient as 4 Strokes. And you would be right, thats not a Platey.

[Vitamin Sea]

I dont recall saying DI 2 strokes are not efficient. But i have certainly not heard it argued that they are as efficient as 4 Strokes. And you would be right, thats not a Platey.

G'Day Shane

What sort of usage do you get on a typical run out to the reef? km's / litres, interested to know seeing that you have the same HP as me on the bigger Haines

thanks

Bill

[Shanoss]

G'day Bill. I'm getting about 1.8 kilometres to the Litre at 4200Rpm which is pushing me along at about 55kmh.

Redbream, are you sure your mate doesnt have a fuel leak? I cant get my boat to use more than a litre per kilometre at WOT either. At WOT i'm getting 1.19 km/l.

[Vitamin Sea]

G'day Bill. I'm getting about 1.8 kilometres to the Litre at 4200Rpm which is pushing me along at about 55kmh.

Redbream, are you sure your mate doesnt have a fuel leak? I cant get my boat to use more than a litre per kilometre at WOT either. At WOT i'm getting 1.19 km/l.


They are pretty good numbers Shane, there is nothing between the 2 boat / motor combo's.

If I kept my right arm off the throttle a bit more I would do even better numbers, trouble is it's there, so I use it.:)

Speed is very similar to, which is interesting, will pay a bit more attention next time I'm out, ie; sit on 4200 exactley and see what I'm pulling.

What does yours run out to at WOT ( speed wise and RPM's )

Thanks

Bill

[skyline]

hey rod why dont you go with a tohutsu 150hp 2 stroke we have a 50hp on ours and can i tell you it goes real good. the best so far i can say.skyline.

[Shanoss]

Bill, Max revs are 5950 and she tops out at 47mph. Can get her up to 48 and a halfish if its glassy and i'm getting down on fuel.

[BigE]

just to be different how about a couple of 75 Etecs use less fuel sounding around and trollin and the safety of twins......... just a thought

BigE

[Ripples]

He Shannos

I to have a Haines Hunter 213C with a honda 225 hp on a full pod.
i maintain good fuel at cruise speed 35 to 38 klm for approx 27 to29 lph.
As with the older model Haines Hunters they were built like battle ships and need plenty of hp .Depending on your hull weight ,not sure if the 140 hp suzy is up to the task . I would recomend the 175 HP as a minimum .
Thanks Ripples

[Shanoss]

He Shannos

I to have a Haines Hunter 213C with a honda 225 hp on a full pod.
i maintain good fuel at cruise speed 35 to 38 klm for approx 27 to29 lph.
As with the older model Haines Hunters they were built like battle ships and need plenty of hp .Depending on your hull weight ,not sure if the 140 hp suzy is up to the task . I would recomend the 175 HP as a minimum .
Thanks Ripples

Hi Ripples, I'm powered by a 200hp 4 Stroke Suzuki. Not sure weather you thought it was me that wanted to re-power or not. But its actually Rod fishing that was thinking about it..

Did you have the pod fitted yourself, or was it on the boat when you bought it? How do you find it handles? I'm thinking of podding mine at some stage and am curious to know how yours worked out.. Are you able to post a few Pics of it?

Thanks

Shane

[Ripples]

Hi Shannos . i had the pod manufactured just south of brisbane, i can put you in touch with the guy. Check out the QL trim tabs recessed into the pod . manufacturer installed and fully painted the hull and sides (top job and reasonably prices)
Ihave just finished a total refit on the Hainers , approx 2 years
The boat handles magnificently, only been outside twice since completing in the last 5 weeks ,last trip i sat on 4,000 rpm for approx 44 to 45 kph in a half meter nor east chop for a quick trip to the 36 fth of the pin. I will work on the picks and post as soon as possible
Ripples

[Ripples]

Here Shane is some pictures of the boat. Hope this gives you some idea of the pod

[Shanoss]

Ripples, Did you do the whole transom as well? what sort of $$ did you pay if you dont mind me asking?

Shane

[Shanoss]

Ripples, Mate, that looks bloody fantastic! I'm starting to get enthusiastic about doing some work on the old girl. Looks like a nice job.

[Ripples]

Hi Shane
The boat was purchased as an unfinished project (previously an inboard /outboard with the flat transom that you see.The pod has been made off a template of the bottom of the hull and then follows the thickened wedge shape of the rear of the boat up the sides .
The strakes do not continue onto the pod.
Price fitted under 2k

[Spaniard_King]

Shanoss, I fitted up Ripples Honda and to be honest it's a first class job. The pod is a hull extension and was custom built for the trim tabs and the stainless ladder.

I have a few other pics if you would like a look.

[Spaniard_King]

heres a few good ones of the pod

[Ripples]

To Rod
Sorry to have ambushed your forum topic . hope the picks may help you decide your outboard of choice and hp. Good luck .

Ripples

[Shanoss]

Thanks Ripples and Garry. That set-up certainly looks the goods. I doubt i'll be able to get one done in Twonsville for anything like those dollars though. Cheers for the pics. I'll have to start working on the finance department and see how i go.

Cheers

Shane

[Haines Boy]

Rod Fishing i purchased a used opti 150 for $11200 from Wondal Rd Marine in Bris. That included smartcraft guages. Fitting was $1000 and you couldn't hope to deal with better blokes. Sure it had 820 Hrs on it [now 1020Hrs] but as a rec user I'll never wear it out. The $$$ saved means I can enjoy current technology. Could be hype but have since heard Head wear on these motors at 1000Hrs is negligible. Another point OBM manufacterers can label the horses within !0%. That leaves big discrepencies between similar rated motors.
I know Wondal Rd sell a new opti every year to a few of their commercial guys. Hence barely a year old with those hours.
Food for thought anyhow.

[Haines Boy]

Hey Gary Almost wet myself at the sight of ripples pod. Any chance of PM ing me with the builders info.
Many thanks,
HB

[Jabba_]

You have failed to address your comment regarding props, which is what i was interested in. And it has nothing to do with brand loyalty. Its more about technology. Wonder why all the MotoGP bikes went to four stroke? Something to do with an enormous power advantage i think... I honestly have nothing against DI 2 Strokes apart from the ridiculous marketing, i just happen to think that 4 Strokes are a vastly superior engine..

The reason your 4st is able to swing a bigger prop is because the gear ratio in the 4st is shorter than a 2st gear ratio.


175hp
Yamaha 4st,,, 2.0/1
Yamaha 2st,,, 1.86/1
Suzuki 4st,,,,,, 2.5/1
E-tec 2st,,,,,,,,1.85/1

Out off the above outboards, the suzuki would be able to turn the biggest prop due to it low ratio, but the Yammie and E-tec 2st with a smaller a smaller pitch will still be quicker and faster across the entire rev range due to the taller gear ratio...

Generaly, it take an extra 1000rpm for a 4st to match the 2st speed at cruise and WOT....

[Jabba_]

Hi Ripples, I'm powered by a 200hp 4 Stroke Suzuki. Not sure weather you thought it was me that wanted to re-power or not. But its actually Rod fishing that was thinking about it..

Did you have the pod fitted yourself, or was it on the boat when you bought it? How do you find it handles? I'm thinking of podding mine at some stage and am curious to know how yours worked out.. Are you able to post a few Pics of it?

Thanks

Shane

Bingo... There's your answer to your question. Your running a Suzuki with a gear ratio of 2.5 to 1... So for ever 2.5 revolutions off the drive shaft your prop will turn 1 revolution... If you were to reduce your ratio to 2.0 1, there is no chance your motor would be able to swing your prop to the revs your getting now... Let a loan if you went to a general 2st ratio off 1.85/1.... Generaly speaking