150efi Merc Vs Etec 150

[Splash]

Hi Team.

Your thoughts on these 2 donks please.

WHich is better and why?

What technology is more fuel efficient di or efi?

Which has better torque?

Splash

[blaze]

I think all motors today of reputable brands are ok, what I would look for is a motor that has the closest servive centre to where I lived. This would be the most cost effective in the long run
cheers
blaze

[Spaniard_King]

The EFI is not in the same league as the Etec,

Etec uses less oil
Etec is direct injected. EFI is a glorrified carby engine
Etec would use significantly less fuel
Etec would have way lower emissions
Torque difference would be minimal but more likely the Etec would have it with them generally having more CCs than merc

Thats my angle on the issue anyway.

[Vitamin Sea]

The EFI is not in the same league as the Etec,

Etec uses less oil
Etec is direct injected. EFI is a glorrified carby engine
Etec would use significantly less fuel
Etec would have way lower emissions
Torque difference would be minimal but more likely the Etec would have it with them generally having more CCs than merc

Thats my angle on the issue anyway.

One or 2 things left out Garry

Etec would cost at a guesstimate another 8 - 10 K,
Etec a lot quieter
But, chalk & cheese, one latest technology, other probably 20 yr old technology.

Horses for courses, how many hours per yr, how long are you going to keep the boat, etc, etc, etc

Cheers

Bill

[bustastu]

I'll second that Spaniard King.

Yes, the etec does have a little more torque, 2589cc vs 2507cc and it comes on earlier at wot of 4850 rpm vs 5000rpm and last a little longer 5850 rpm vs 5600rpm.

BS

[Hamish73]

as stated before, apples and oranges
ETEC vs Optimax is more of a comparison worth making

[Splash]

Thanks boys - How reliable is that belt on the efi?

Re: 2 vs 4 stroke - would a 30kg weight difference (2 vs 4 stroke) at the transom make a big difference to hole shot, fuel usage and performance on a 5.3m Haines?

SPlash

[Coontakinta]

would a 30kg weight difference (2 vs 4 stroke) at the transom make a big difference to hole shot, fuel usage and performance on a 5.3m Haines?



Get a 30kg bag of sand and put it in your car. Fill the tank and see what your fuel consumption is & how quickly u can accelarate. Then do the same thing without the sand bag. Can u see a difference in ecconomy and accelaration. If both motors have similar fuel consumption then more weight equals more power to get that weight moving hence the one with the most weight requires more fuel.

IMO this is where the whole 4 stroke thing loses some of its hype. Sure they maybe... no are more fuel effecient than a 2 stroke carby but the fact that DI's are simialr to 4 strokes in almost every way makes them a better choice. IN MY OPINION!

[Spaniard_King]

Thanks boys - How reliable is that belt on the efi?

Re: 2 vs 4 stroke - would a 30kg weight difference (2 vs 4 stroke) at the transom make a big difference to hole shot, fuel usage and performance on a 5.3m Haines?

SPlash

Splash I had the opertunity to test run 2 x 2100SO boats one with a 225 Evinrude Di engine and the other with a Honda 225. Amazingly neither had the hole shot or the acceleration over the other. Both boats were identical fitout and could not be seperated up to 40 mph. The 2 stroke made all the grunty noises and the 4 stroke just kept pulling, we all thought the 2 stroke would be faster as we associated the aacceleration with the noise. With the quiteness of the 4 stroke it's very deceiving.

[finding_time]

How much is 10l of E-tec oil again???????

Ian

[Noelm]

if you are trying to tell us a 4 stroke is quieter at high speed than a new 2 stroke then I want to see your noise measuring instruments, because they are not, sure they are at idle but at revs they are the same (well almost)

[Spaniard_King]

How much is 10l of E-tec oil again???????

Ian

Not quite as dear as the oil goin in those yammies :)

[Spaniard_King]

Noel,

Dont need measuring instruments ears are sufficient enough And I did not mention Etecs either :P

[Splash]

thnaks again. Interesting poitns of view...

Splash

[Noelm]

hhmm I also did not mention Etec, but, splash did in his first question, (and I also do not own one) OH and "finding_time" and you can buy expensive oil and burn it sparingly to keep your engine in good condition OR you can buy expensive oil and chuck it away when you change it along with an over priced filter, the choice is yours!

[Spaniard_King]

OH and "finding_time" and you can buy expensive oil and burn it sparingly to keep your engine in good condition OR you can buy expensive oil and chuck it away when you change it along with an over priced filter, the choice is yours!

Noel, could you elaborate a bit more on this? How do you burn it sparingly??

[Fish Guts]

dont cut yourself short splash. buy a suzuki over the 2 smokes

[Timmy94]

Etecs have xd-50 and xd-100 xd-50 is cheaper but uses more oil, xd-100 is more expensive and uses less oil. (So i have heard)

[disorderly]

How much is 10l of E-tec oil again???????

Ian


Good to see some more words of wisdom there, Champ.::)

I am yet to use 10l of xd 100 in 120 hours....
Wonder how much oil and equivalent servicing costs a 4 stroke would have set me back over that time?



As for your comparison,splash some of the guys have hit the nail on the head in their responses.
Old technology vs new technology.

Either way you should get a powerful,reliable motor that should give you years of time on the water.
One will be quite a bit cheaper but you will have to put up will a higher polluting,noisier,smellier motor that will use considerably more fuel and oil.
But people have used older,simpler,proven technology motors for donkeys years .
All I could really recommend is if you are struggling for dollars go the EFI as it will save you considerably with its cheaper initial outlay.
If money is not a consideration go DI.

Just remember though,mate at the end of the day the whole point of the exercise is too get out amongst the fish and any new motor will get you there and back anyway.

Scott

[finding_time]

hhmm I also did not mention Etec, but, splash did in his first question, (and I also do not own one) OH and "finding_time" and you can buy expensive oil and burn it sparingly to keep your engine in good condition OR you can buy expensive oil and chuck it away when you change it along with an over priced filter, the choice is yours!

Noel

You have used this arguement many many times in recent months! Mate it doesn't stack up!!;) A larger 4 stroke ( around 200hp ) say has a 7-8 liter oil sump and this lasts a hundred hours, a larger e-tec when working ( not at idle) about a 70 -1 mix so for every 40l of fuel it's using 570mls of oil and say it's using 40l of fuel per/hr it's using .57 litres of oil per/hr .57 x 100 =57l or $855.00 worth ( expensive oil )

Yes i know i've using a high average but it doesn't matter what revs you run a 4 stroke at it still uses the same oil;D Even if you only use half that amount with alot of idling around it still 5X the amount of oil your going to use in a 4 stroke.


So can we please dispose of the old " you either change it or burn it arguement":D Again what's 10l of e-tec oil worth again , ? Times that by 5.7 i think you will pay for the 4 stroke service with some left over.

No wonder they dont get serviced for 300hr evinrude want you to have some money left to buy there oil!;D

Ian

And the smaller the engine the more the equation swings infavor of the 4 strokes , yes smaller e-tecs use less fuel ergo less oil but my 60 4 strokes have only 2.2 litres in the sump.

EDIT : i've amended these figures below e-tec use as low as 200 to 1 at idle and 40- 1 when high in the revs so the calculations should be averaged at say about 70 to 1 for general use imho:D

[leezor]

dont cut yourself short splash. buy a suzuki over the 2 smokes

Once you've had black, there is no going back! :P

[finding_time]

XD 100 oil 10Liters is $300.00 at Logan river marine!!


Disorderly

Mate that cannot be true!!!! you have a 90 right!! and would be burning say 12-15l per hour at around 4400 rpm!

E-tec use between a 200 to 1 mix at idle and a 40 to 1 miw at high revs with most mid range using say a 70 to 1 mix

So at at an average usage of in a day at 10 p/hr for fuel (your not a troller are you) at a 70 to 1 ratio!

This amounts to an average of 144ml per hour times 120 is about 17L

I guessing Disorderly that you didnt include the amount the dealer left in the tank!!

And yours is only a 90 hp how about a 225 that's using 40l per hour of fuel at the same figures of 70 to 1= 571ml per hour or 57 litres per hundred hours which at $300.00 per 20l = $855.00 per hundred hours in E-tec oil:o , kinda makes getting a four stroke serviced cheap!!

Ian

[Splash]

oils aint oils...

didnt realise oil could be that expensive!

In any case, the extra weight on a 4 stroke still worries me...

SPlash

[disorderly]

XD 100 oil 10Liters is $300.00 at Logan river marine!!


Disorderly

Mate that cannot be true!!!! you have a 90 right!! and would be burning say 12-15l per hour at around 4400 rpm!

E-tec use between a 200 to 1 mix at idle and a 40 to 1 miw at high revs with most mid range using say a 70 to 1 mix

So at at an average usage of in a day at 10 p/hr for fuel (your not a troller are you) at a 70 to 1 ratio!

This amounts to an average of 144ml per hour times 120 is about 17L

I guessing Disorderly that you didnt include the amount the dealer left in the tank!!

And yours is only a 90 hp how about a 225 that's using 40l per hour of fuel at the same figures of 70 to 1= 571ml per hour or 57 litres per hundred hours which at $300.00 per 20l = $855.00 per hundred hours in E-tec oil:o , kinda makes getting a four stroke serviced cheap!!

Ian


Ian,

You really are an uninformed fool.
Is the oil actually $300 for 10l or 20l.You have stated both.

Yes, I did include the full tank of oil(as supplied initially by the dealer) as well as the 2x 3.78l bottles I have purchased since I fitted the motor.

I just cant understand how somebody who doesnt own a particular type of motor can speak with such authority on them as well as spout all these supposed figures for them and call me as an owner of one, a liar

All I can say in response is......dyslexics UNTIE.(sorry to plaguarise you,El Carpo)

Scott

[Spaniard_King]

Ian,

You really are an uninformed fool.
Is the oil actually $300 for 10l or 20l.You have stated both.

Scott

Scott, why is someone an "uninformed fool" when they make a typo::) Was that really deserved>:(

Really what is needed is a credible source that has a thick hide:o to come forth with long term usage figures to settle the matter. not just the odd hundred hours, maybe a few thousand.

I for one am keen to hear what the consumption rates are.

[disorderly]

Disorderly

Mate that cannot be true!!!!

I guessing Disorderly that you didnt include the amount the dealer left in the tank!!


Ian

Spaniard King,

I have quoted firsthand figures based on my actual usage....,Ian tells me they they cant be true...

"uninformed fool" is a nice way to put it in my books.

[death_ship]

hey splash i have a 5.2m haines with a 115 four stroke yammy and performance is perfect for the hull, i dont think you need a 150, overkill really. mate one thing i dont miss is oil tanks and smoke, and if you service your motor every 3 years your off your nang nang. you cant beat 4s for quietness and smoothness. for an hours run out and back i use around 40 litres of fuel. wouldnt know what an etec uses. more cannon fodder for ya. peace. DS

[finding_time]

Spaniard King,

I have quoted firsthand figures based on my actual usage....,Ian tells me they they cant be true...

"uninformed fool" is a nice way to put it in my books.


That's ok Disorderly i have some NICE things to say about you as well mate but as i wont publicly stoop to your low level they will have to wait till we meet in person;)

So i can be better informed could you please supply your average fuel burn per/hr at you cruise speed? the oil usage figure i got of the net regards rpm/oil to fuel ratio.

I'm still struggling with your oil consumption rates being so low do you by chance go everywhere in the boat at idle?

At your present rate you state you have used around 9l over 120hrs or .075mls per hr!
I'm guessing ( yes guessing ) you would average at least 10l per hr?
So your using .075mls per 10l or a oil to fuel ratio of 133.333 to 1! if true Disorderly you couldn't give me a E-tec as i wont make it's first service at 300hrs at the engine will have siezed long before then !!!

Keep the responses civil mate not need for insults !! I didn't i didn't say you were lying i just though you must have got your figures a little muddled;) Perhaps if you have a cupa tea and a bex things will become clear!:-*

Ps thanks for pointing out my typo! yep xd100 oil is $300.00 per 20 litres now can we keep this going on a reasonable level or are you going to be petty again;)

[Splash]

hey splash i have a 5.2m haines with a 115 four stroke yammy and performance is perfect for the hull, i dont think you need a 150, overkill really. mate one thing i dont miss is oil tanks and smoke, and if you service your motor every 3 years your off your nang nang. you cant beat 4s for quietness and smoothness. for an hours run out and back i use around 40 litres of fuel. wouldnt know what an etec uses. more cannon fodder for ya. peace. DS

DS - How heavy is your Haines + fuel, etc (but without donk)?

Everyone I speak to (and post to on here) say I need min 150HP. Why your difference of opinion? WHy did'n tyou go down the lighter 2 stroke path?

Splash

[Splash]

20L at $300 - How mnay boating hours would the 150 ETEC use up this 20L??

Muma Mia!

SPlash

[ozscott]

can someone pass the popcorn

[death_ship]

DS - How heavy is your Haines + fuel, etc (but without donk)?

Everyone I speak to (and post to on here) say I need min 150HP. Why your difference of opinion? WHy did'n tyou go down the lighter 2 stroke path?

Splash
splash
shes an old 17c which are a deep v and plenty glass with 130 litres of fuel onboard.
i went 4 stroke for better fuel economy which = greater range, quiet and smooth, no oil, i hated messing around with oil. also better resale, but more to outlay. when i looked the etecs etc were a lot dearer, now they r cheaper.
the old motor was a 150 2 stroke and was no lighter than the 115 4stroke, so weight was not an issue. I went yammy 4 because they had the runs on the board and the etecs etc were relatively new, basically from what i could gather they had the least issues. so far so good. hope i helped. the 4 is slower out of the hole but i use it for fishing and trolling so its not an issue either, but propping and engine set up can help this. any help?
DS

[Spaniard_King]

Splash, my last boat was a 580 haines with a 130 Honda (had it 4 1/2 years), I also think 150 is way to much. The 130 was fine on the 580 so a 90 would be minimum and a 115 would give you plenty of grunt. A lot of 5.5m boats are fitting 115hp engines so your 5.2 aint gunna need 150 IMO

[finding_time]

can someone pass the popcorn

;D ;D ;D ;D I've actually just put the popcorn in the microwave and have sent the misses down to the night owl for a frozen coke!;)

[death_ship]

hows the edncraft spaniardo?
i like em, do they live up to the rough water rep? much different in ride and handling to the old 19's

[Spaniard_King]

DS, They make a real solid boat, add that to the deep Vee and it goes thru anything. In fact the harder the better. Done 30 hrs in her now and still waiting for some good conditions :( I don't think you can substitute anything for weight and lenght. No creature comforts in this new girl either pure hardcore, only upholstry in her is the captains chair :)

[finding_time]

Disorderly

I an effort to advance on my uninformed fool status i've been doing a bit of research

It seems my earlier info was related to the 50 oil ( blue one) but an e-tec tuned to the xd 100 oil will use as little as a 300-1 ratio at idle but still uses around 60-1 ratio at higher revs . so could you give us a run down of an average days boating( fuel flow , revs at cruise ) as it still appears that you do an aweful lot of idleing

Ian

Ps i still use the old style ratio's for oil fuel mix even though they never really mix in that sense of the word until they eventually meet in the chamber! dont want to be called ill informed!


PPs. do you know how MANY things are computer controlled in these suckers:o You wouldn't want any freezers that's for sure;)

[death_ship]

nice, can ya roll your swag out in the cabin?

[Splash]

Finding Time - Hope you're enjoying it !
DS - My Haines 5.3m is also a solid glass boat with a deep Vee - I may have to investigate further the HP I shuld be using now - thanks fo your input (maybe saved me a few thousand dollars :-)
Span King - Your opnin of the Honda - was this 4 stroke?

All - I read that 4 strokes shoul dnever be put on boats - rather cars.

I want to troll alot to - thoughts on 4vs2 stroke?

DS - woudl you buy the etec now if you had the chance?

SPlash

[death_ship]

Finding Time - Hope you're enjoying it !
DS - My Haines 5.3m is also a solid glass boat with a deep Vee - I may have to investigate further the HP I shuld be using now - thanks fo your input (maybe saved me a few thousand dollars :-)
Span King - Your opnin of the Honda - was this 4 stroke?

All - I read that 4 strokes shoul dnever be put on boats - rather cars.

I want to troll alot to - thoughts on 4vs2 stroke?

DS - woudl you buy the etec now if you had the chance?

SPlash
go the 4 for trolling
would i buy an etec, honestly i cant say because i have never personally used one, but it would have to be good to sway me away from the 4 strokes now that i have one, but i do believe there is a lot of marketing hype from the states surrounding the etec brand.
i have seen quite a few 17 haines with 90 2 strokes as well, you wont be underpowered.
as for 4 strokes only on cars, sounds like more seppo BS
stay cool
DS

[Splash]

Thanks DS - Lots of hype around the etec - sure.

What about the extra weight the 4's put on for a comparable 2 of same HP??

SPlash

[Splash]

I read that extra amount of weight can cause significant trim changes on older heavier boats (like ours), which may not be designed for heavy motors.

I also read that extra weight can also increase the draft of your boat, if shallow water performance is an issue - whereas newer hull designs are usually structured to balance out the higher weights of 4-strokes, although draft can still be a problem.

Your thoughts on these comments..

SPlash

[death_ship]

they arent that much heavier

[ozscott]

I have a 19"8 hull length of my old Vagabond and 21 degree deadrise at the stern. Heavy old glass half cabin. She has a 115 Yammy 2 stroke - nice dependable motor. When I first saw her I thought that there was no way the 115 would make her skip along, but I was wrong and it does high 60s (kph) and cruises at 50kph very nicely. Its hole shot is very good - its propped nicely with a stainless prop. Garry's comments have to be right - I think that the perfect size for my boat (particularly if spending heaps of time out wide - getting home at cruise of say 65kph - or crossing bars regularly) would be 150hp, but 115hp is certainly good enough for me. 150hp for a V17 would be a nice set up I reckon. I had a V16C with a new 60 stroke merc that went well (topped out though earlier than my Seafarer), but the 17s were a fair bit heavier again. M2CW

[Fish Guts]

the 150 etec is 190kg and the suzuki 4 stroke 150 is 215. youd have at least 10kg of oil with the etec anyway so its not a big difference.

[Splash]

thanks - that's alot of oil! did nt think of that...

SPlash

[Spaniard_King]

Splash, Honda only make 4 stroke marine engines. If you are primarily towing I would look at a 90 4 stroke it will get a V17 along just nicely just dont expect to win any races. If you like a bit of throttle a 115 is the go.. no need for 150hp. If you had a V19 a 150 would be perfect but on a V17 I recon ya got more grunt than you would ever use.

DS, heaps of room in the cabin, currently have a double foam mattress in there for the kids to have a snooze. My decky recons I am going soft:)

[Timmy94]

What u think bout a 140 suzuki on splash's boat? I think it would be Absolute Total max

[Spaniard_King]

I actually tookm a 140 suzi off a V17 as the owner thought it was too scary :D

[finding_time]

Wonder how much oil and equivalent servicing costs a 4 stroke would have set me back over that time?





Scott


Interesting point that Scott! Do you really believe you dont pay? You do mate and here's why!;)

When E-tec first floated the idea of no services for 300hrs to there dealers, there dealers were not very happy at all, they had just been jipped out of there on going income stream by way of service costs. they has been used to selling a motor then seeing the owner after 10hrs, 100hrs 200hrs, 300hrs and so on !!;) Now they weren't going to see the owner at all, bad for business so what did Evinrude do , yep increased the margins for the dealers to keep them happy!;) ( they had to keep the dealers happy as some one had to sell e-tecs) Who pays, well the purchaser of course, probably the reason E-tecs are a little dearer and of course there making abit on 20l of xd100 for $300.00 aswell aren't they!

So next time you raise the issue of all the money you have saved on services you can add that you payed for not having these in advance!:o pretty funny huh!!;D

Not to bad for an I'll informed fool , lots of good info out there if you know where to look;)

Ian

[Vitamin Sea]

Splash, Honda only make 4 stroke marine engines. If you are primarily towing I would look at a 90 4 stroke it will get a V17 along just nicely just dont expect to win any races. If you like a bit of throttle a 115 is the go.. no need for 150hp. If you had a V19 a 150 would be perfect but on a V17 I recon ya got more grunt than you would ever use.

DS, heaps of room in the cabin, currently have a double foam mattress in there for the kids to have a snooze. My decky recons I am going soft:)

Spot on Garry, a 115 is just about perfect on a 17 Haines, plenty of punch, would spin out to about 35 knts, maybe a bit more, for memory.

A 150 on the boat would be a weapon, no doubt about it, but, if you could buy a quality 2nd hand one, for the right price, why not?

One thing you might want to check Splash, is what that particular hull is rated to.

Cheers

[Splash]

Thansk boys.

How would a Johnson 140 comapre to the Yami 150?

I have a dealer in Darwing trying to put the hard sell on to commit to a 150 Yami.

What would you choose yami or Johno/Suki? - and why?

SPlash

[Vitamin Sea]

Thansk boys.

How would a Johnson 140 comapre to the Yami 150?

I have a dealer in Darwing trying to put the hard sell on to commit to a 150 Yami.

What would you choose yami or Johno/Suki? - and why?

SPlash

Are we talking carburetted here Splash, or DI?

How long is a piece of string, if you are going new, no matter what anyone says, there is little between any of them, ( apart from fuel usage, carb - DI ) horses for courses, fit for YOUR intended use, get the best deal you can.

Decide on new/second hand, how big, go from there, you probably won't find two blokes on here that perfectly agree, we all have our prejudice.

My 2 bobs



Cheers

[Spaniard_King]

Thansk boys.

How would a Johnson 140 comapre to the Yami 150?

I have a dealer in Darwing trying to put the hard sell on to commit to a 150 Yami.

What would you choose yami or Johno/Suki? - and why?

SPlash

Non of them, and why cause ya don't need the HP... what are ya tryin to outrun crocs or maybe the law ;D ;D ;D ;D

[Timmy94]

Look in the boats forsale section and you will find out. Bonus is selling his suzi 140 with 5hrs for $13400 including gauges cos he's goin to a 175.

[finding_time]

Non of them, and why cause ya don't need the HP... what are ya tryin to outrun crocs or maybe the law ;D ;D ;D ;D

Yep for some reason many people think that more is better on a boat::) I've spent plenty of time in a victory hull powered with a 200hp donk and although faster it didn't ride nearly as well as the same hull powered by a 150 hp donk. i to agree 115 will be fine.

Ian