Am I a sucker for marketing?

[MickS]

I found an old Alvey reel in the shed the other day. I aquired this reel when I caught it in Pumicstone passage years ago. It had a rod attached, but when I broght it to the surface, the rod fell apart, just splintered into a thousand pieces.However the reel (after a bit of cleaning) worked just fine, and I caught many fish on that old Alvey.

Today I use Loomis rods, with a couple of Calcuttas and braid, and a Shimano outfit for the heavy stuff. I have a bag full of soft plastics of all shapes and sizes, as well as a multitude of hard bodied lures, and all sorts of hooks, leaders, jigs etc etc.

I asked myself though, when I found the old Alvey, do I catch any more fish now than what I did with my old Alvey, and I don't think I do.Ok, so now every year I head up north and catch Barra etc, which the Alvey would not do well with...but then again!

So now I ask myself, have I been a sucker for marketing, maybe so. The reels today are far eaiser to cast, and more accurate, the rods are lighter, and load up more, but do I catch more fish?

Maybe it's a question of less fish to catch today instead of 20 years ago.

So I'm off to buy some mono, and get the old Alvey back into action. Loomis and Calcutta on one side of the boat, Alvey and the ole Bonnie Dune on the other side.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Cheers

Mick

[Tailortaker]

Interesting,, I'll look forward to a result.. You cant knock the old alvey can ya
________
STARCRAFT 2 REPLAY FAQ (http://screplays.com/replays)

[Noelm]

I have said this lots of times before, a lot of fish were caught on handlines long before any "high tech" rods and reels were ever invented, same as in the 70's thousands of fish were caught on "mister Twisters" way before any flavoured/smelling plastics came along, or plain mono caught tonnes of fish (even jigged in deep water) before braid hit the shores, all the new stuff just makes it easier/more pleasureable/more expensive/more lots of things, but they are NOT a must, a fish does not swim along, see a bait/lure and say to him/herself "hang on, thats a 3/0 thermo plastic, double turned down eye hook in triple black" they are simple minded creatures and what worked 50 years ago will and does still work now! but it is not fashionable.

[gunna]

The fish know man, the fish know. They understand if you don't pay them some respect by spending oodles on tackle and they treat you accordingly. Use the Alvey and they just send the happy moments and grinners along to plague you. You've been warned.

[Little grey men]

I agree with Noelm 100%, but unfortunatley it doesn't apply to me, I see the marketing and get sucked in straight away.( especially freshwater lures for chasing bass )
I LIKE GEAR !!! it's my only vice.

[choppa]

"hang on, thats a 3/0 thermo plastic, double turned down eye hook in triple black" .


ahhhhhhhh the old double turn down,,,,, they work,,, believe me,,,they work;D

choppa

who has probably owned more shimano fishing gear than the average ,,,,,,,,

[Black_Rat]

Mick,

On my last trip to Swains last year we had another bloke on our charted boat to make up the numbers. He was around 60 and when he arrived at the boat he unloaded a coulpe of old rods and reels one of which was an old Alvey and rod.

We had a quiet chuckle amongst ourselves ;D thinking is he for real ? ... We're fishing Swains ...... big fish ! Well over the next 6 days he bottom bashed with that old Alvey and rod and held his own against some of our big $$ rod and reels. Sure we were cringing when the rod was at breaking point when onto a fish but he caught just as many fish as anyone else did.

A sucker maybe ? .... I know I am ;D

[Marlin_Mike]

Gonna upset some people by saying this, BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT


Loomis this, certate that, live fibre this, hundreds and hundreds for outfits.............all a huge load of wa**er BS IMHO.:o

I catch all the fish I want, as many as any others, with my BCF/K Mart combos. You do not need million dollar wanky rigs to be a top fisher person. I catch heaps on little plastic hand casters, 4.95 from K Mart.

My first outfit was 50 yards 12lb line wrapped round a coke bottle. Caught nice ones of the jetty in the Crookhaven River as a youngun.

First rod was a JW with a cheap Daiwa egg beater, won in a chocolate wheel at the carnival at Burnswick HEads onr xmas holidays. Probably worth aabout 9.85 at the time. CAught nice bream and lizards. I am sorry, i think some get over the top raving on about their U beaut million dollar outfits. If thats your thing great, go for it, but it certainly aint gonna make you a champion fisherman,If I offend you saying this, i am sorry. But i really think we all get caught by marketing gurus.....................

In answer to your question MickS.................. YES


Mike

[BigE]

Noelm just a quick Q? what colour triple black do you use & how do you rig it, ive been useing the double black without much luck & been thinking maybe i havent spent enough. LOL my grand dad (who taught me how to tie knots) would surely agree with you.

Big E

[theoldlegend]

That was a savage little outburst Mike? >:(

I see where you're coming from, and there's no point in me buying upmarket stuff, because I can't catch anything with the gear I've got! :'(

Although I did get a Shimano Aernos 6000 at the Boaties Market last Sunday.


TOL

[Blackened]

G'day

Lol, good little outburst mike, but can see exactly what you're saying.

Am I a sucker? NO. I have live fibres, sol, tyrnos, use plastics and gamagatsu and braid. Why?? It's my preferred method these days.

It's about using the right tool for the job that will make it more enjoyable for you and you have 100% confidence in your gear that when you hook something spectacular that it's not the gear that will fail you.

I'm not going to spend x on a boat, running costs and then back that up with poor quality gear only to have it fail me. Yes the marketing plays a part, but quality comes into it moreso. Not just names.

BEst part of marketing i've seen would be the e-tec (here we go lol...) and also the lipstix range of rods. Great idea to get the ladies out more.

It's a but like this. You currently drive the base model commodore from 1985, you see a new 5 series beamer advertised, take it for a test drive and pay for it on the spot. Was it the marketing? sure, you had to know what it was like to go and investigate further. Maybe it was the fact that you wanted a better safer more comfortable ride. Same with flying, turn left to business class or right to cattle class? Marketing? Sure..... but moreso a better tool for the job. Arrive in comfort or a little bit cramped and annoyed.

Sure you may see some guys running around the place with brands and everything plastered over themselves their boat and gear but at the end of the days isn't it about the right tool for the job to match your budget and expectations?

Dave

[Horse]

Marketing is what makes our capitalist, consumer world go around. I studied several marketing subjects while completing my MBA and began to realize how carefully orchestrated and manipulated are the trends and fads in buying behaviour. Companies like Berkley, Shimano, Diawa spend multi millions of $ influencing consumers perceptions and buying behaviours in order to establish a competitive advantage over their opposition. Certain demographic market segments are more easily influenced and their success in influencing these target segments behaviour patterns can be seen clearly in the pages of Ausfish

If we all sat back and closely analysed what we really need we would be astonished at how we have made our lives so much more complicated to appease the Gods of consumerism. Fishing is no exception and I would be suprised if most of us don't have a perfectly useable and functional outfit that sits abandoned because we bought something trendier with more bling.

I have quite a chuckle when one of our younger tackle guru's pour scorn on someone using older or cheaper gear. I have news for them. The price or age of the outfit is secondary to the skills of the person using it. The performance benefits of top of the line gear are infinitesimal when compared to technique location and timing.

As for the original question...In my opinion that old Alvey in the hands of a capable and experienced fisho is probably more lethal weapon for inshore fishing than the $1000.00 NASA derived graphite rod and spaceage ten bearing reel.
The choice is yours and the enjoyment of fishing is based being satisfied with the gear you are using. If you feel the need for the top of the range latest release outfit then go for it because the experience will be lessened if you perceive a genuine lack in your equipment. I for one enjoy pulling out a 20-30 year old reel and catching good fish on it. Someone would have a hard time convincing me that my old Alvey's, ABU's, TSS4's or TLD 25 are not up to any task they were originally designed for and even in their day they were all just mid ranged gear

Cheers

Neil

[finga]

Next time I'll make sure I turn up with the 4" Alvey and solid glass rod Mike. :)
But I agree with you a fair bit.
But each to their own. If you want to spend then spend.
If your a tight -rse like me then don't.
If it means your family have to eat SAO's and vegemite for a fortnight then don't (I'm in that category hence see option above also).
Marketing has a lot to say what people buy and when so...If your happy and you know it clap your hands...and buy the bugger

But (yep there's a but) now-a-days I can't use a heavy rod and I pretty well can't use a store bought rod because of setup so I either have to go real upmarket or build my own and there comes the options above. I'm a tight -rse and broke so I have to build my own so I can fish for longer then 10 minutes.

It's a pity that a beach rod can't be built strong and weigh 250gm. If they could I could go beach fishing again :(

[oldboot]

I have been struck by the overwhelming volume of what has to be marketing driven fishing tackle.
Why doe any manufacturere need to market 8 diferent ranges of egg beater with 5 or 6 or more size options, spread that across 4 leading brands, half a dozen secondary brands and a fist full of generics.
I go into almost any fisshing shop and its egg beaters from a$#&@ to breakfast time.

it as if the market sees only one option for general purpose angling.

I have been a dedicated sidecast angler, but I now must conceed that all reel styles have their place.

for repetive casting as found with lures and soft plastics egg beaters certainly have their place.
But there are a lot of reasons why a side cast will remain my reel of preference unless specific properties of other reels are overwhelming.

there is no way the tackle industry would make as much money selling alvies.....they don't break and require far less maintence.

You would have to be pretty mechanicaly chalenged not to service your own alvey.

The first outfit I ever used was a 4" alvey on a boney doon........it was and still is a deadly combo for whiting and bream.
A well tuned small alvey especialy a bakalite one is such a joy.

cheers

[TheRealAndy]

All that fancy gear makes a crap fisherman like me look good... Doesn't it???

[Cammy]

i only replace a rod when i lose one:( but i dont go overboard on prices, i usually hang around the same price as normal.

cam

[tunaticer]

I think and believe that there are two forces in play here.
Marketing to promote the new products and to get you interested and all claiming to be the best you can afford.
What I call the "Trendy Factor" comes into this as much as the right belt worn outside of a teenagers clothes to look hot. There is an enormous void to fill when somebody finds a new product that is for whatever reason that little bit closer to perfection and friend X or competitor Y thinks that by buying this new "technology" item will make him / her a better fisherperson. More often than not this purchase is made simply to keep up with the Joneses and becoming more trendy, flashy and to look more creditable.

Unfortunately all the BLING factor and the Technology factor and the marketing factor is entirely focused on human activity and not on if the fish will bite exactly when you can pin that hook into his lip.

Having a house full of BLING driven women that could all be models if they chose that field, I have really started to take notice of what is selling and why it is. They can not understand how I could possibly enjoy wearing my Yakka workwear EVERY day and actually not want anything nice to wear.

Rival competition, be it realised or not, drives possibly around 80% of all sales these days in non-essential items. The rest are just enjoying a little luxury.

Jack.

[choppa]

would it be fair to say that every manufacturer either markets there product succesfully,,, or fails???????

i agree with the excellent replies above,,, and it goes without a doubt to say that we all own a color tv,,, but is it a plasma?????

i sit on the fence,,, and think,,,, if its outdated now,,,, it wasn't when it was new
and it must have worked when it was new,,, or it wouldn't be outdated now

how's that for a bit of indepth,,,,,,,,,

choppa

[finga]

They can not understand how I could possibly enjoy wearing my Yakka workwear EVERY day and actually not want anything nice to wear.
Jack.
No taste some people hey.
Nothing wrong with the work wear.
Cumphy as and hard to wear out.
Why do some people spend $100 on a long sleeve cotton shirt for fishing when a KingGee is $20odd and lasts longer. I know....no pretty insignia on sewn or printed on it
Go the KingGee khaki's ;D

Same goes for shoes. Nothing wrong with the T-boot. Again, cumphy (as long it's not a steel cap) and long lasting ;D

[PinHead]

would it be fair to say that every manufacturer either markets there product succesfully,,, or fails???????

i agree with the excellent replies above,,, and it goes without a doubt to say that we all own a color tv,,, but is it a plasma?????

i sit on the fence,,, and think,,,, if its outdated now,,,, it wasn't when it was new
and it must have worked when it was new,,, or it wouldn't be outdated now

how's that for a bit of indepth,,,,,,,,,

choppa

bloody hell choppa..too early on a Sunday to get my head around all that.

as for the TV..I recently bought a new one..knew what I wanted when I went shopping..all the sales guys all pointed me towards plasma...I did not want one...bought a rear projection...all the marketing works on a lot of people but GOM like me just want to go into a shop..buy what I want and leave...without all the technical jargon thrown at me.

[landyman]

Gonna upset some people by saying this, BUTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT


Loomis this, certate that, live fibre this, hundreds and hundreds for outfits.............all a huge load of wa**er BS IMHO.:o

I catch all the fish I want, as many as any others, with my BCF/K Mart combos. You do not need million dollar wanky rigs to be a top fisher person. I catch heaps on little plastic hand casters, 4.95 from K Mart.

My first outfit was 50 yards 12lb line wrapped round a coke bottle. Caught nice ones of the jetty in the Crookhaven River as a youngun.

First rod was a JW with a cheap Daiwa egg beater, won in a chocolate wheel at the carnival at Burnswick HEads onr xmas holidays. Probably worth aabout 9.85 at the time. CAught nice bream and lizards. I am sorry, i think some get over the top raving on about their U beaut million dollar outfits. If thats your thing great, go for it, but it certainly aint gonna make you a champion fisherman,If I offend you saying this, i am sorry. But i really think we all get caught by marketing gurus.....................

In answer to your question MickS.................. YES


Mike

yep.. and I learnt to drive in an old beat up Land Rover.. yes it got me front A to B.. doesn't mean that I can't upgrade to something nicer.. comfier.. air-con etc..
same with my tackle.. yes a $20 kmart combo will catch fish.. NO it wont cast unweighted plastics like my $250 rod will.. yes the $20 reel will last a few season.. NO it wont be around in 10-15 yrs time when my $?00 reel will

then there is the weight factor, the smoothness factor and ofcourse the bling factor..

If it wasn't for choice and "comforts" we'd all still be living in caves

[Why-ting]

I dont think im a sucka............. maybe a bit. I fish every week sometimes 3-4 times and i like having nice gear i know isnt going to fail on me. When your casting all day you dont want a heavy K-mart outfit that wieghs 3 times more than some of my loomis's. If im fishin 2lb fluro straight through i dont belive there is a k-mart reel that would have the smoothness in the drag to boat any fish at all.

When ever im asked for advise on tackle i tell people to spend as much as they can afford at the time, to get the best,strongest product they can. If you look after your top end gear it will out last any K-mart reel.

Just my opinion Whytey

[Noelm]

I still say that a well presented bait on (say) a handline will catch just as many fish as the same bait on a Tiagra matched to an Ian Millar custom rod and fancy Braid, when fish become smart enough to know what is expensive/new and what is old/cheap, then we are in real deep poo, now let me say that I own more gear than you can poke a stick at, but I do not race out and buy something because I saw so and so on TV catch a big fish on a certain lure/line/rod/reel or boat for that matter, I prefer to test my own wits and techniques before I decide if I need a new "thing" (not that I am against new "things") and indeed new "high tech" gear can improve at least the experience of our sporting pursuits.

[landyman]

I still say that a well presented bait on (say) a handline will catch just as many fish as the same bait on a Tiagra matched to an Ian Millar custom rod and fancy Braid, when fish become smart enough to know what is expensive/new and what is old/cheap, then we are in real deep poo, now let me say that I own more gear than you can poke a stick at, but I do not race out and buy something because I saw so and so on TV catch a big fish on a certain lure/line/rod/reel or boat for that matter, I prefer to test my own wits and techniques before I decide if I need a new "thing" (not that I am against new "things") and indeed new "high tech" gear can improve at least the experience of our sporting pursuits.

there is no doubt the well presented bait will catch just as much fish.. but it is how comfortable you are waiting for the thing to eat it..

However - when it comes to lures and plastics - the better quality gear will impart a more realistic action on them.. and do it easier and lighter

[Noelm]

I fully agree, but an elcheapo outfit will STILL catch fish and the fish will not know any difference, that is what I was getting at, the "user experience" will be much better/more enjoyable with a nice shiny new setup, but as a case in point, I was just up in Caloundra on Holidays and borrwed a rod and reel off my mate to do some Flathead spinning, all he had was a long rod more suited to perhaps spinning for Mackeral off the rocks and a reel with about 15LB line on it, I purchased some Plastics at the local in town and had a spin, got a great Flattie after a very short time, and I doubt if I would have got it any quicker than if I had my own "specialised" rig with me, but I did have a very sore arm after about 15mins holding up that 'pole" so what I am getting to is all the new gear in the world will not necessarily catch more fish if you have no idea how to use it.

[Polly]

I listent to the hype but will buy whatever suits my need and price range. eg a curado for heavy estuary, an opus bull for the inshore reefs. Doesn't matter if it is Shimano or Daiwa or Abu Garcia.

Also have some Jarvis Walker for the borrowers.

A good reel feels good in the hand and I enjoy using them.

Besides, some of them are just so darn prutty.

Polly

[Greggo1]

Whilst I'm sure many people did catch plenty of fish in the old days with basic and low tech gear (love the line round the coke bottle idea;) ), over the years memories fade, and the ones your most likely to hang on to longest are
of the days when it all came together for you. The days when you go out and catch zilch will definately wipe from your memory.
Possibly this adds to the feeling of being just as successful when you were a kid with your handline as you are now wth your Looms/Certate whatever.
Anyone who's surfed for more than a few years will know the feeling when, with your mates, you rock up to a break that you'd spent a lot of time at in your youth, only to find northerly slop. Inevitably someone will say "We always used to get waves here". Same thing. Your memory holds on to the good times and weeds out the let downs.
p.s.- Personally I'm a sucker for name brands though tight arse as well so I always wait for the specials to come along. Best buys this last 12 months have been a 40% off Sahara 4000 when Springwood marine got rid of their fishing section late last year, and the good old Ausfish tackle section lead me to buying my 30%+ discounted Stradic a couple of months ago!:D

[DR]

to me it's all to do with marketing...

you only have to look at how many swear by Loomis rods, look at any bass board in the US & read about 'Airrus' or 'Kistler' even 'Falcon' there is a huge range of good gear out there that most have probably not heard of.

Reels, i would throw 'Quantum' into the mix of good gear.

Plastics are another world all together, they just don't have the Berkley promo machine behind them, i use Strike King, Gambler & Zooms quite happily & have no need to buy Berkley. 18 months ago the main snapper plastic mentioned was Zoom super fluke jnr in Baby Bass, they still work.

Actually, if i could only have one lure it would be an old 'Croc Spoon' catch most pelagics & flathead can't resist them.

[Steve B]

I agree with most of the comments for all sides of this discussion.
Kmart combos will catch the same fish as you top end gear. The anglers skill is the key factor.

Iam a sucker for marketing, but more importantly a sucker for research. I reseach my product before jumping in.

$100 combo fished regulary hard will last mabey a season??
$500 combo (which you can get a very very good quality setup for that price nowdays) will last you 5-10 years mabey more. It all equals out. Its called false economy. bit like buying new 4 x 4 tyres, cheap ones ($180-$200) do the trick for 30000km, expensive ones ($300, give or take) may last 60000km or more as a ball park example.

BUT... If I had to cast lures for 4 days straight like I have just done, a heavy combersome KMart special would just wreck me and the accuracy and distance and feel in the cast would be severely diminished. not to mention my arm would probably fall off with pain by the end of the day. My quality Egrell rods and Zillion reels are lighter, powerful and have exceptional feel, giving me the best of both worlds. I know which one I would rather in my hand when a fish of a lifetime hooks up, and it wont come from Kmart!;) But thats my choice. Each to their own.

Using Alvey as an example is a bit hard ! I love my ALVEY for beach fishing. It is still the best peice of gear available for the job. ALVEY is on the same marketing train too dont forget. They have changed with the times getting lighter and better too.

I have to agree with everyone who said. Fish with what you feel comfortable with and want to spend money on.

We will all be suckers for marketing somehwere in our lifetimes, thats a fact!!!!

[Longshot]

Years ago I used Rangoon cane rods with centrepin reels, hard yakka but caught plenty fish.

When glass(solid) was introduced purchased a Black Queen rod and 4inch Alvey, little easier and caught lotsa fish,.

Then the evolution to hollow glass and the rods were lighter and would cast easier, a good theadline (spinning) reel went on it, Shakespeare blue 2400 series. Much easier and still caught many fish.

Wont go into the overhead stage of progression suffice to say many fish caught.

Today I use good quality Daiwa and Shimano reels coupled with self made rods that suit me and what I want to do. Strangely enough it is now harder to find and catch a fish locally. Not impossible, just harder.

Does the newer and much, much, better tackle get you more fish than the old stuff?? Probably not, but the enjoyment of using quality rods and reels and catching the targeted species is something to be savoured.

I sometimes hear that an area has been fished out or that the fish are harder to catch. Maybe what should be said is that it takes more finesse and skill along with new ideas to catch a feed in the so called “ fished out” areas. Therefore an angler with the right tackle and bait/lure and technique will continue to catch a feed in those areas.

The modern and better tackle just makes it a little easier.

[szopen]

It's a pity that a beach rod can't be built strong and weigh 250gm. If they could I could go beach fishing again :(

Daiwa and Shimano have some telescopic rods that weight very little and are build for serious beach fishing in a range of line classes.

[Horse]

The funny thing about marketing is that if you are aware of it then it does not work. One of the reasons the gear feels so much better is often the brand on it. For many people if the Shimano badge was swapped with a Penn or ABU logo the perception would be that it was an inferior product.
The same thing will happen with the new Cruiser coming out now. No matter how many independant test that show its inferiority to another well known brand it will be the market leader.

[landyman]

The same thing will happen whithy the new Cruiser coming out now. No matter how many independant test that show its inferiority to another well known brand it will be the market leader.

nothing would have changed there ;D

plus it is even uglier than ever now.. the ass looks like one of the Williams sisters :o