keeping oversized fish.

[breamnut]

i see alot of reports with guys who keep a feed of fish and others blow up at them.
personally i have no probs with people keeping a feed. i release most of my fish but will keep the occasional flattie around 40-45cm.
what i really dont get is why peaple would keep over size fish such as flathead!
i dont know why people keep over sized fish? most of the time it is to show of and brag about. why not just take a photo of these big breeders and send them on there way to do there thing and make plenty of flathead for the future!
i know people are going to bitch about this report but if i dont bring it up someone else will. keeping oversized fish is just as bad as keeping undersize fish and you are wreaking the fishing for yourself and others in the future. sure people might say its only 1 fish but how many fish do they produce?? ''hundreds?'' thousands?
probably even more! and wat if everyone did that? i know you are allowed to keep 1 flattie over 70cm in nsw but you shouldnt be allowed to keep any over 70.
and for the guys who catch em in queensland... why dont you tack a pic and keep a few smaller ones for the table and just let these big breeders go

[breamnut]

any reply is wanted cause i want to here wat other people think

[breamnut]

any thoughts?

[Jeremy87]

Not really, other than wondering what has inspired your post? I can't recall the last time i heard of someone on this site keeping an oversize lizard in qld and for that matter i can't remember the last time i heard of someone in nsw keeping a big lizard. i like flathead around the 50-60cm mark. i couldn't be bothered filliting a 45cm flathead anymore and the big girls over 60cm are too tough anyway. In saying that i can see why a meato would want to keep a big girl cause you get some big slabs off them. Just how threatened is the old lizard anyway. If they're common in NSW and the limits are sustainable then i suppose i don't have a problem with people keeping a big one.

[breamnut]

go through the saltwater reports section and eastery reports andyou will find alot of posts with people killing the big breeders and getting absolutly ripped!
it is not as bad as what it used to be 10 or more years ago because people are starting to realise this.
every old guy i speak to has always said that the fishing was way better when they were younger and big flatties were a hell of alot easier to catch.
if someone wants to eat some fish catch a few more smaller flatties.
i dont eat fish much but i know how to fillet a fish properly and a 45cm flattie has plenty of meat on it.
as i said most guys who keep the breeders keep them to show of or to win $10 in the bulliten news papper

[carving it up]

hi Breamut
mate it's like opening a can of worms with this topic, i love feed of flatties as much as the next bloke my lasat fishing report i posted i got drilled 'coz me and my two mates kept 15 flatties between us and 5 soapies. Now the biggest flathead then was 58cm and i got hammered for that. Personally each to their own opinion i live in nsw and let anything over 65cm swim free but hey thats just me 'coz i've read their mainly all females over that size so thats why i do it. I know a lot of older blokes who don't keep anything over 70cm 'coz they say they don't taste very good over that size so although in nsw it is legal to keep a flatty over the 70cm mark i honestly don't think there are many people that still do keep them over that size, people are more aware i think. but hey i won't hesitate in keeping a flatty under 65cm if i catch one and am after a feed thats for sure and certain
cheers
Bazz

[Jeremy87]

a 45cm flattie has plenty of meat on it.


Not really hey I'd rather see 1 or 2 50-60cm flathead being taken than 5 little ones that you need to make up the same sized meal. Not alot is known about the old lizard in terms of its breeding habits other than the big ones are girls, though i doubt it would have much impact selectivly taking all the males can be just as detrimental as keeping females.

Anyway it comes back to personal choice if people want to take larger lizards within the boundaries of the take and size limits then this web site doesn't have a problem with it (as of all the posts saying that we're tired of non meatos telling us what we can and cannot take).

P.S i can't be bothered going through 237 pages of saltwater reports so if you want to put the links up of all the cases where people have posted reports where they have illegally taken lizards that would be great.

[VoodooChile78]

There is a limit of 5 "Dusky" Flathead per person and only between 40 & 70 cm in QLD...I agree with these limits.

I think we need more bag limits on popular species such as whiting, bream and mangrove jack.

When you look at how many years it takes for a fish to mature...we have to be mindful of how long it takes to replace what we take.

Most of all we need more inspectors out there policing and informing people.

My pet peev is how much fish is wasted by commercial fishing...you see them take everything, put it on the sorting table and by the time they sort what's what heaps of the juveniles and non-keep species are near death...then they are picked off by the birds and sharks around the boats. Not to mention that if someone does not buy the fish...it's wasted.

Most of us fisho's take care in releasing the fish we aren't keeping...getting them into the water as quick as possible with as little handing as possible...the same cannot be said of commercial fishers...I have seen them using small gaff like tools to throw the unwanted catch over the side!

[tunaticer]

I have no problem taking one nice flathead to about 65cm for a feed and releasing any others i catch that day.
I really think that it is a lesser evil to take one decent sized fish that will feed me, my wife and two kids than taking the bag limit of just legal fish to feed the hoard once.

Size limits need to be raised for most toher bread and butter fish including squire/snapper. Bream and whiting should be at least 30cm and tailer and mangrove jacks to 40 or 45cm. Flathead are reasonable at thier current size limits. I would also like to see a limit brought in for species like sole/flounder for both size and quantity.

I think it is overdue now for a bag limit to be placed on winter whiting per angler. This needs to be done before the magical 100 mark is unreachable.

Jack

[samson]

Don't have a problem with people keeping big fish as some people prefer big chunks of flesh with less risk of tiny bones and as far as all big fish being breeders that isn't the case its true with fish such as barra and flathead where they turn female after a certain size but with cod and coral trout its the opposite they all turn male and seeing how it only takes one male to fertilize mass amounts of females you can take larger specimens without any detrimental effect to the fishery, the same with the larger blue groper you can take the dominent male and a female turns male to take its place, big doesn't make them all breeders it just means their older and wiser and haven't jumped on my hook.

[sharkymark2]

I have eaten a few over 60cm and they tasted great; if you cook them too long they might get tough but cooked properly just delicious. I have caught so many over in the surf at times that I stoped fishing. Just don't want to keep on taking all those breeding females for the sake of ego. Just got to love those perfect days of sun and breeze and surf with a few fish thrown in too :). Was sickened by the whollesale slaughter of tailor at Fraser. Glad to see we have worked out some common sense there. I would like to see only 4 crab pots to a boat as well :). Or is that another post :)?

[breamnut]

There is a limit of 5 "Dusky" Flathead per person and only between 40 & 70 cm in QLD...I agree with these limits.

I think we need more bag limits on popular species such as whiting, bream and mangrove jack.

When you look at how many years it takes for a fish to mature...we have to be mindful of how long it takes to replace what we take.

Most of all we need more inspectors out there policing and informing people.

My pet peev is how much fish is wasted by commercial fishing...you see them take everything, put it on the sorting table and by the time they sort what's what heaps of the juveniles and non-keep species are near death...then they are picked off by the birds and sharks around the boats. Not to mention that if someone does not buy the fish...it's wasted.

Most of us fisho's take care in releasing the fish we aren't keeping...getting them into the water as quick as possible with as little handing as possible...the same cannot be said of commercial fishers...I have seen them using small gaff like tools to throw the unwanted catch over the side!

thats true the commercial fisho's do alot of damage and i see stuff like that happening in the tweed river all the time with undersize fish being ripped out of the net (practically dead) and thrown to the pelicans.
but even though i dont need a fishing license yet wasnt the whole purpose of that to reduce the amount of commercial fishing in nsw? does anyone know were it has taken effect?

[Daniel_603]

Iam pretty sure its taken affect in sydney harbour and lake macquarie i know that theres no commercial fishing there .Dont know anywere elsse though.

[dogsbody]

I think you need to clarify yourself. When you say oversized are you saying Illegal?

If not and they are within the legal limits then accept it and move on.

The people that keep a feed could say the same about you, that they don't get that you spend all that money on fancy pants gear and hardly take a feed home.


Dave.

[castlemaine]

This reminds me of a post inthe same area ... 'Hooking Yourself (or someone else)' :-X ;D

[cuzzamundi]

I am assuming you mean oversized in your opinion, as i haven't seen too many posts on here displaying 'illegal' catches. It's in the hands of the individual angler, and if it's within the law, then there aint anything anyone can do. people have a right (and often very good reason) to keep a 65cm lizard. your reality is by no means universal.

cuzza

[breamnut]

well most of the posts have been in nsw but a few have been in qld.
some of you musts have seen reports like this.

[Tailortaker]

I've only seen 1 report of an over sized lizard in over 6 months and I'm pretty sure i've read them all so where are you coming from......and I thought we got over the crap of bagging each other over our catch.....no need to start it again is there????
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[Reel Nauti]

I think that perhaps you are out of your depth a bit here breamnut. What are you considering to be oversized. As others have said, if it's within the legal requirements we can take and keep what we want. For a lot of us, that's the purpose of fishing. If you've got a problem with that then may I suggest you take up ping pong.

Cheers

Dave

[Fafnir]

I'm pretty sure size and bag limits are intended to ensure that no individual species are over fished. I mostly catch and release, but occasionally (very rarely) will keep a feed. But I no problem with people sticking within the limits that are currently set. Might I suggest to those fellow catch and release anglers that rather than giving your fellow anglers and ausfish members a hard time, that you perhaps lobby the DPI to get the current bag/size limits changed. Until they are altered (personally I think the flathead limits are fine as they are), then everyone staying within those limits is doing the right thing and in no way jeopardising the fishing future of my young son, or his children or their children.

[Jeremy87]

Might I suggest to those fellow catch and release anglers that rather than giving your fellow anglers and ausfish members a hard time, that you perhaps lobby the DPI to get the current bag/size limits changed.

Good point, be proactive instead of wining about how everyone else is spoiling fishing for you, maybe you should start tagging fish. Alot more work can be done in terms of analysis of tagging data, nearly all of suntags info simply ends up as a summary table of little relevance. better analysis could give us better insight into population sizes.

You should also remember that flathead have a survival rate of between 80-90% which is pretty good high, but a catch and release fisherman who fishes regularly targetting larger lizards could end up killing more fish than the meato who heads out once a month a takes home his bag.

Food for thought

[nigelr]

Hi breamnut.
Tho' I tend to agree with Jeremy 87, IMO it's always good to see a young fisho concerned for the future of the fishery.
As a NSW rec licence holder, I would certainly like to see more evidence of DPI initiatives in regards to putting the brakes on some of the controversial commercial practices in my area, ie beach hauling, but that's another topic.
In regards to flathead, my personal favourite eating size is 1-2 kg, most anything else goes back. Goes for most if not all species, as a 'meat' fisho lol, i prefer to keep and eat medium size specimens of most species, an exception would be tailor, tho anything over 4kg is very rare hereabouts anyway.
Breamnut, don't take me the wrong way I am certainly not interested in criticising you in any way, but just by practicing what you preach, if I may put it that way, you will have a positive impact on your local fishery and set a good example to others.
Cheers.

[mattooty]

I dont see a problem with taking whatever is legal in your state. Ive mentioned it before in past posts but will say it again, whining about problems with the laws wont achieve anything.
The real killer of our marine environment is the commercial sector. The "meat" fisho's , even if they kept every flatty over 70cm they caught, wouldnt come close to 10% of the carnage caused by the commercial guys.
as someone else suggested, the time spent writing up big slabs of morals and ethics on this site would be ALOT better spent by lobbying for a change in regulations.
I personally agree with nsw's laws more than qld's in regards to sizes and bag limits. Both whiting and bream have larger size limits than those in qld and if there is the odd meat fisho who catches a big flatty then he can legally take 1 over 70cm.
The use of castnets and the like are also controversial if this is an argument on sustainability.
Im currently in the process (with the aid of the local tacklo's) of drafting a letter that weighs up pro's and cons of the legalities within our state, most especially beach hauling. Its alot more constructive and will actually achieve those goals and ethics that you idealise alot quicker than preaching to the converted.

[castlemaine]

Breamnut has previously posted some really good threads in the past, so I'm sure he didn't mean this thread the way it came out. I hope you post more good threads, Breamnut.

Flathead Bar-tailed 30 min No limit Dusky (mud) 40 min 70 max 5 Sand 30 min No limit

At the end of the day (if we use flatties as an example); only a Dusky greater than 70cm is oversize.

[nigelr]

Good on you Mattooty, wish you all the best with any initiatives aimed at curbing the practice of beach hauling.
Where I live adjacent to the Bellinger river, the river is designated a Recreational Fishing Reserve, yet beach haulers are allowed by law to net ostensibly mullet, but in reality the more highly valued bream and mulloway, at the 'confluence' ie from the beach adjacent to the river mouth.
Mulloway catches have been abysmal here this past winter, co-incidently beach haulers took a large catch of mulloway back in June when the mullet run was on.
Sorry for the rant, this is quite an emotional issue with many surf anglers in this and other regions, as I'm sure you are well aware.
Cheers.

[castlemaine]

Breamnut has previously posted some really good threads in the past, so I'm sure he didn't mean this thread the way it came out. I hope you post more threads in the future, Breamnut.

Queensland Regulations

Flathead
Bar-tailed 30 min No limit
Dusky (mud) 40 min 70 max 5
Sand 30 min No limit

At the end of the day (if we use flatties as an example); only a Dusky greater than 70cm is oversize, and it is illegal to keep an oversize Dusky.

[Tropicaltrout]

yep is really foggy is anyone there.

For a person to keep a Illegal Flat over 70cm it would be stupid to say the least, I have heard reports by word of mouth of w$%$&ers taking big illegal breeders and personally they should be strung up, but with jeremy one sixty will feeds us , and its one fish. We all do what we feel fair for a feed for me I release all fish unless its a fifty or 60 so I get a feed for minamal impact, but do what you feel is right as long as it is in the legal requierments.

TT

[mattooty]

Nigelr, i saw a pic of the jew they got out of one of their hauls and it was scary to say the least. ill try and find it as it really makes you shake with what you're seeing.
Imagine AT LEAST 2-3 dozen 15kg + jew lying on a co-op floor!
Thats an entire school of BIG breeding jew (jew that size rarely school up unless there is a large reef with plenty of bait or when they're spawning along the deep beach gutters...guess where they were taken? yep, off the beach...
Recreational fishers in the grand scheme of things dont make a significant impact on fish populations. If you take the jew that were taken from that one shot, maybe 5 or 6 would have been caught by rec's if they werent netted. Im not sure on the flathead situation as i wouldnt imagine the big breeders would be netter often unless it was by prawn netters. So maybe rec pressure is stronger on flathead than commercial but only time will tell.