Another Fatality. Not wearing lifejackets

[seabug]

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=305496

:-X :-X


Regards seabug

[SgBFish]

I have inflatables on my boat and I’m asking myself why I don’t wear them in transit particularly when its dark. I’m sure that’s why I bought them in the first place!!!

I suspect wearing jackets when in transit will be compulsory one day in every state.

[seabug]

News update
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/article.aspx?id=305496

[FNQCairns]

Forgot the epirb!!

[Simmo2]

I have inflatables on my boat and I’m asking myself why I don’t wear them in transit particularly when its dark. I’m sure that’s why I bought them in the first place!!!

I suspect wearing jackets when in transit will be compulsory one day in every state.

Yeah, I have all the legal offshore safety gear on my boat, inc Epirp, (dunno why someone would forget it, shouldnt it be on the boat???) Anyway, I also have an inflatable, for me... I take it off my boat onto other boats when I go out... say Yachting etc. I copped some shite from other yachties on one trip when I had it on... but I dunno, I'm a big boy now and can put up with being called a woos.
Must admit, I dont wear it all the time, only when it looks like blowing up...dont connect the kill switch to me all the time either.....

I dont understand, when these blokes were only 5 k's off shore, how a guy died wearing his jacket, bad swimmer or not.

Makes one re evaluate ones own safety procedures eh?...

[disorderly]

I suspect wearing jackets when in transit will be compulsory one day in every state.

You may well be right SgBFish.
I can understand it with minors but I'd be insulted as a skipper if the adults on my boats chose to don their jackets for no good reason.
I'd have to wonder whether I had made such a bad call to be out there or whether they had so little confidence in me as a skipper.
Either way the safety of the passengers is up to the skipper and he should be trustworthy and able enough to be able to recommend when its time to start reaching for the safety gear.

Scott

[seabug]

You may well be right SgBFish.
I can understand it with minors but I'd be insulted as a skipper if the adults on my boats chose to don their jackets for no good reason.
I'd have to wonder whether I had made such a bad call to be out there or whether they had so little confidence in me as a skipper.
Either way the safety of the passengers is up to the skipper and he should be trustworthy and able enough to be able to recommend when its time to start reaching for the safety gear.

Scott

And while we continue to have attitudes as the above we will allways have accidents.::) ::) ::)
Regards
seabug

[Chris53]

It does say that the guy who died was wearing a lifejacket though.

[seabug]

It does say that the guy who died was wearing a lifejacket though.

Yes,but not when the accident happened.

And it is very hard to put a lifejacket on once you are in the water,especially for a poor swimmer.
Regards
seabug

[artesian]

people drown wearing lifejackets, including inflatables and PFD1s.

I regret not buying a coastal or SOLAS for that time when I really really need it (hopefully never) instead of the reasonably high quality PFD1, which shows no particular ability to turn me over onto my back.

[seatime]

studies have shown that the zip-up jacket style PFD 1's can turn a person on to their stomach, especially with younger children. this style of jacket has foam on the sides and at the back which can assist rolling someone over face down.

the block foam, over the head style will keep you floating face up when properly fitted. hence the 'Coastal' and 'SOLAS' PFD's are the 'over the head' style, they also have more buoyancy than a PFD 1.

[tigermullet]

And while we continue to have attitudes as the above we will allways have accidents.::) ::) ::)
Regards
seabug


Not necessarily and even if there is the odd accident you will have to admit that they are rare considering the total number of hours spent on the water by thousands of people each day.

How many times have you even come close to falling overboard or being involved in a collision? Not many I suspect.

During the past fifty years I have donned a life jacket only once. And I am on the water quite a lot. Okay... that's a fib - closer to sixty years but cut me a little slack here.

Now, at my age, I prefer to stay in smooth and partially smooth waters because I enjoy the comfort.

Wearing a life jacket on a calm day in the dreadful heat of our summers would be agony. Can you imagine what it would be like drifting around for a few flathead for hours wearing a life jacket?

Not only that, it really does look 'dorky'.

Being in a boat in smooth waters is safe and relaxing. Unlike the drive in traffic from home to the ramp.

There are surprisingly few boating fatalities each year considering the numbers involved in water activities.

Those very few point to considerable exercise of responsible behaviour by most people and the fact that boating is already safe enough without having to go overboard (sorry, bad pun) on making it compulsory to wear lifejackets.

[seabug]

Not necessarily and even if there is the odd accident you will have to admit that they are rare considering the total number of hours spent on the water by thousands of people each day.

How many times have you even come close to falling overboard or being involved in a collision? Not many I suspect.

During the past fifty years I have donned a life jacket only once. And I am on the water quite a lot. Okay... that's a fib - closer to sixty years but cut me a little slack here.

Now, at my age, I prefer to stay in smooth and partially smooth waters because I enjoy the comfort.

Wearing a life jacket on a calm day in the dreadful heat of our summers would be agony. Can you imagine what it would be like drifting around for a few flathead for hours wearing a life jacket?

Not only that, it really does look 'dorky'.

Being in a boat in smooth waters is safe and relaxing. Unlike the drive in traffic from home to the ramp.

There are surprisingly few boating fatalities each year considering the numbers involved in water activities.

Those very few point to considerable exercise of responsible behaviour by most people and the fact that boating is already safe enough without having to go overboard (sorry, bad pun) on making it compulsory to wear lifejackets.

There are really two issues here,and neither has to do with making lifejacket wearing compulsory.
1.
It is the DUTY of the skipper to ensure that passengers are wearing lifejackets if he considers it necessary.

2.
It is the RIGHT of any person to wear a lifejacket if they desire to do so for ANY reason.

Hence my reply to disorderly.

Regards
seabug

[tigermullet]

Sorry Seabug, you are correct. I went back and had another read of the entire thread and it seems that I did jump to an incorrect conclusion.

It's just that I get a little jumpy at the first hint that even more regulation is required to try to 'protect' those engaged in a very safe and enjoyable pasttime.

That was not the case with your statements and I apoligize.

[mako101]

I find it hard to see how someone could drown with a lifejacket on.
I also don`t think anyone should go offshore in a boat if they can`t swim.
Inflatable boat would be a great idea to have stored in your boat, never thought of that, I`d much rather be in an inflatable than in the water.
Someone should come up with a small sharkproof inflatable or enclosure, that would sell millions!.

[disorderly]

There are really two issues here,and neither has to do with making lifejacket wearing compulsory.
1.
It is the DUTY of the skipper to ensure that passengers are wearing lifejackets if he considers it necessary.

2.
It is the RIGHT of any person to wear a lifejacket if they desire to do so for ANY reason.

Hence my reply to disorderly.

Regards
seabug

Well said seabug.
However I dont believe my attitude is at all conducive to causing accidents as you previously stated.
As a skipper I certainly would be the first one suggesting the use of safety gear when necessary and I take the responsibility of being skipper very seriously.
I just really dont want the fisheries branding me a lawbreaker though for NOT wearing lifejackets when its flat calm and I think the danger factor is at a minimum.

Scott

[seabug]

"I'd be insulted as a skipper if the adults on my boats chose to don their jackets for no good reason."(Quote disorderly)

There are all sorts of reasons that a passenger may wear a lifejacket.
E.G.
They may just feel more safe wearing one.
They may have instability,which can be brought on by a combination of low blood pressure and dehydration.ETC.

A passenger must never refuse a skippers request to put on a lifejacket

A skipper should never make a passenger feel that they cannot wear one.
Regards
seabug

[SgBFish]

This is a tragedy and I don’t want to second guess the judgement of those on board but…
They must have had a good reason to leave a boat that was still afloat and swim for shore but I have been racking my brain for that reason and can’t think of one because:
1. Its easier to see a boat in the water than a person.
2. Even a good swimmer can’t swim against a current of more than 1 knot, especially with a lifejacket on.
3. They logged on so someone would have come looking.
4. And I keep thinking of the old adage that “you don’t step down into a life raft, you step up into it”. In other words, you only leave the boat if it sinks below you.
“Police feared the worst for the Buchanans when the body of Mr Griffin was found about 1.5 nautical miles from the boat at about 8pm (WST).
The survivors told police how all four had clung for more than five hours to the capsized boat and how Peter Buchanan had dived under the overturned vessel to retrieve life jackets, including one for Mr Griffin.”

[disorderly]

"I'd be insulted as a skipper if the adults on my boats chose to don their jackets for no good reason."(Quote disorderly)

There are all sorts of reasons that a passenger may wear a lifejacket.
E.G.
They may just feel more safe wearing one.
They may have instability,which can be brought on by a combination of low blood pressure and dehydration.ETC.

A passenger must never refuse a skippers request to put on a lifejacket

A skipper should never make a passenger feel that they cannot wear one.
Regards
seabug

C'mon seabug, we seem to going around in circles here.
Never said I'd make a passenger feel that they cannot wear a jacket.
However I'd still reserve the right to feel insulted if I could see "no good reason" to wear one.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/smiley.gif

In the incident leading to this tragedy it sounds like there were very valid reasons for donning the jackets,although this is based on an assumption as I dont know the full details.

Mate I hope you dont work in the department that makes the rules on boating as I certainly can do without anymore basically unenforcible laws that tell me I MUST wear a lifejacket while I am driving my boat.



Scott

[SgBFish]

Disorderly.

If someone on board your boat puts on a lifejacket you should not see it as an assessment of your boating ability anymore than someone putting on a seatbelt in the car you are driving.
You shouldn’t take it personally because in both situations the adverse event that requires the use of the seatbelt or jacket would most probably be out of your control or ability to avoid.
Some people are just very risk averse.
Scott

[FNQCairns]

Quite honestly if someone feels the emotional need to put on a lifejacket just for an every day boating trip they really shouldn't be on the water and should consider a 'safer to them' past time like golf but resist the urge to don a helmet and body armour:)

Of coarse their are caveats like children, the elderly, disabled, night running etc.

cheers fnq

[seabug]

Quite honestly if someone feels the emotional need to put on a lifejacket just for an every day boating trip they really shouldn't be on the water and should consider a 'safer to them' past time like golf but resist the urge to don a helmet and body armour:)

Of coarse their are caveats like children, the elderly, disabled, night running etc.

cheers fnq

Hi fnq,

Does that mean one should never go up in an aeroplane because they cannot fly?;) ;) ;D ;D ;D

Regards
seabug

[FNQCairns]

Hi fnq,

Does that mean one should never go up in an aeroplane because they cannot fly?;) ;) ;D ;D ;D

Regards
seabug

He He I dunno, but they also fly over water:)

cheers fnq

[mik01]

This is a tragedy and I don’t want to second guess the judgement of those on board but…
They must have had a good reason to leave a boat that was still afloat and swim for shore but I have been racking my brain for that reason and can’t think of one because:
1. Its easier to see a boat in the water than a person.
2. Even a good swimmer can’t swim against a current of more than 1 knot, especially with a lifejacket on.
3. They logged on so someone would have come looking.
4. And I keep thinking of the old adage that “you don’t step down into a life raft, you step up into it”. In other words, you only leave the boat if it sinks below you.
“Police feared the worst for the Buchanans when the body of Mr Griffin was found about 1.5 nautical miles from the boat at about 8pm (WST).
The survivors told police how all four had clung for more than five hours to the capsized boat and how Peter Buchanan had dived under the overturned vessel to retrieve life jackets, including one for Mr Griffin.”

my understanding is that you NEVER leave the boat unless it sinks as SGB states. this was probably the difference between life and death in this instance unfortunately.

anyone care to differ? I could be wrong but that's my undertanding..

[artesian]

Mako 101 the ABC a few years ago did a doco on tragedy in Tassie where some pro's lost their lives when their boat sank.

One had an inflatable life jacket that after hours in the water started to deflate. He became separated from his exhausted mates. Another bloke had a PFD1. As I discovered with mine, they don't seem all that inclined to roll you over onto your back. Loose consciousness, get rolled by a swell. Drown.

[Simmo2]

Disorderly.

If someone on board your boat puts on a lifejacket you should not see it as an assessment of your boating ability anymore than someone putting on a seatbelt in the car you are driving.
You shouldn’t take it personally because in both situations the adverse event that requires the use of the seatbelt or jacket would most probably be out of your control or ability to avoid.
Some people are just very risk averse.
Scott
I think a point made above is, as in your analogy, seatbelts...it is required by law for passengers to wear a seat belt...even on leisurely sunday afternoon cruises in the 57 chev....
Whereas it would be lovely not to wear one, the law says you must.
The point being, boating laws could become as anal as this if we dont reduce the risk.....