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View Full Version : Genetically enhanced fish? Yes or No



jman2016
14-10-2007, 09:05 PM
Would you support fish being genetically enhanced?

20kg whiting?

250kg Barra?

Mini Marlin?

50kg jacks?

loophole
14-10-2007, 09:15 PM
yes but they probly shouldnt be eaten our releaqsed into the wild.

they should be kept in fish farms or sumthing but a 20 kg whiting you would have to use heavy duty marlin gear to land it.

Flattie Assassin
14-10-2007, 09:42 PM
Def not released, but yer a big fun park where you can catch 10 kg bream etc would be a buzz.

Davemclean
15-10-2007, 05:26 AM
yeah Flattie, until they break and start eatting the guests...lol



and I don't think its a good idea, takes away the beauty of the animal if we modify them yo hpw we want

fish-n-dive
15-10-2007, 06:27 AM
NO NO NO !!! Stuff like this always ends up in a disaster horror scenario............

DR
15-10-2007, 09:29 AM
why???????????????

Little grey men
15-10-2007, 10:13 AM
I'd wanna be genetically enhanced to catch these scary big mongrels:-/

Fishin_Dan
15-10-2007, 10:27 AM
Did we not learn from Jurassic Park? :P

(Apart from how to make a bad movie)

FNQCairns
15-10-2007, 12:54 PM
Most people who like oysters will have eaten geneticlly enhanced ones. Big fella's they are but they have no 'other animal' genes in them but are produced by manipulating with chemicals a very early phase in their formation to create a organism that is triplod.

If they do this with fish they would be fairly benign enviromentally and when consumed, not a problem to me but creating such a 'natural mistake' in an organism as complex as a fish might be a problem for science on a commercial scale, dunno, but I would eat them.

cheers fnq

Jeremy87
15-10-2007, 04:42 PM
Would you support fish being genetically enhanced?

20kg whiting?

250kg Barra?

Mini Marlin?

50kg jacks?

The basis of your question shows a lack of understanding in the whole genitic engineering process. most genetically engineered animals simply have an extra gene to reduce disease, increase metabolic efficency, or produce a chemical on mass. There is no simple switch you can flick to make and animal disproportionably large. And if you could it probably would end up deformed.

I couldn’t advocated interfering with an animals genome purely for the sake of a new angling opportunity when there are so many great fish species that occur naturally.

tunaticer
15-10-2007, 05:40 PM
In the future I think the possibility of GM fish will be a reality whether it be by breeding or by genetic manipulation. Cattle, pigs, sheep, goats and horses as well as nearly all of our food source plant life has been bred to produce bigger and better results. We seem to overlook that little fact. GM is just forced change that in most circumstances be "bred" into what we harvest to get a better yeild.
Who would have thought that tomatoes and potatoes both have the same source plant and that this particular plant is highly toxic??

GM has been going on for thousands of years by humans creating better stock or better crops just slower and less hassles than these chemically enhansed days.

Jack.

joeT
15-10-2007, 07:16 PM
I think most of the cows, pigs, and chickens we eat now have been genetically enhanced in some way, and their food as well. If you show the chickens we have now, how big and fat they are and how fast they grow, to someone 100 years ago they'd be shocked.

tunaticer
15-10-2007, 07:51 PM
My brother lives on a chicken raising farm for one of the major chicken meat processors. 200 000 day old chickens are placed in these big tunnel sheds. 6 weeks later 125 000 chickens are harvested averaging size 16. They claim the food they are fed isnt tampered with to produce such incredible growth rates.
If that is so why do 75000 chickens get culled during that 6 weeks for having deformations and growths and cysts and other illnesses?

Jack.

jman2016
15-10-2007, 09:12 PM
The basis of your question shows a lack of understanding in the whole genitic engineering process... There is no simple switch you can flick to make and animal disproportionably large. And if you could it probably would end up deformed.



Jeremy87, while you are on Ausfish, there is a village somewhere without an idiot!!

Jeremy87
15-10-2007, 09:22 PM
Yeh the size chickens are a result of traditional breeding. Australia has only approved a few genetically modified plant crops like insect tollerent cotton. The chickens are so large because they are fed antibiotics. This means that bacterial disease is prevented from speading and the chickens put more energy into growing bigger faster. It also menas that we are fast tracking evolution of antibiotic tollerent staff and other nasties. In order to genetically modify an organisms you need to physically insert or remove something from it's genome and create a clone. It is much more easily done in plant cells as you can grow plants from a smear of cells in a dish where as animals still need to gestate. Anyway with the way aqua culture is going its only a matter of time before we start playing around creating disease tolerant fish species.

Jeremy87
15-10-2007, 09:37 PM
Jeremy87, while you are on Ausfish, there is a village somewhere without an idiot!!

And your basing that on?
I recognise that the poll was probably created in jest but genetic engineering is a serious topic and few posts were already taking the topic seriously. I happen to be studying it at the moment so i thought i might clarify a few myths before people started thinking you could engineer a 20kg whiting.

If i offended you by suggesting that you weren't educated on the matter then i apologise but that fact that you seemed to take so much offence suggests i was correct.

disorderly
15-10-2007, 10:05 PM
Jeremy87, while you are on Ausfish, there is a village somewhere without an idiot!!

pull your head in , jman.
really dumb and denigrating response to a silly thread YOU started.

Scott

Sean
16-10-2007, 06:34 AM
Calm down everyone. Sometimes I think we all take ourselves just a little too seriously. I must admit I did have a chuckle at the village idiot comment, not because I know Jeremy and agree, but because it was a funny statement, Even if it had of been directed at me (could you imagine that, someone calling ME an Idiot!!lol)

I voted yes, maybe a more realistic scenario is fish that are fed Hormones to make them grow bigger and faster.....But if anyone here has seen one of their friends take steroids.....just imagine a JACK on steroids....that would be one ANGRY fish!!!

Smile, Sean

oldboot
16-10-2007, 08:52 AM
If there were giand mangrove jack on steroids:o :o ........ who would be worried about sharks.::)

cheers

fish-n-dive
16-10-2007, 09:19 AM
If there were giand mangrove jack on steroids:o :o ........ who would be worried about sharks.::)

cheers


LOL...........the Ausfish screen saver keeps coming to mind.............LOL.........;D

Cammy
17-10-2007, 10:22 PM
i voted yes, i think if it ever did happen , that the fish should be kept in some kind of underground facility so it can never reach the surface lol

cam

jman2016
19-10-2007, 11:33 AM
And your basing that on?
I recognise that the poll was probably created in jest...

http://archive.greenpeace.org/geneng/highlights/gmo/GEfish_Q&A.htm

http://www.fass.org/FASStrack/news_item.asp?news_id=1240

http://www.ars.usda.gov/research/programs/programs.htm?np_code=106&docid=1269


http://www.truefoodnow.org/crop/gefish.html

jeremy87 i am a big enough man to say i'm sorry. Please accept my apologies for calling you an idiot. You are not, you only have a somewhat blinkered view of the world.

yes this thread was started as a bit of fun, but if you want to be serious!!!

Dude, they can make fish glow!! Illegal? Yes!

Rumor has it that american scientists have isolated the gene that give bluefish (tailor) their size! so if a scientist isolates the gene that give king george whiting their size then genetically splices that gene to a blue nose whiting for a % increase on a marketable fish!! Remember when cloning was sci fi!!!

So Papauan black bass and spot tail bass are naturally programmed to grow big and are a member of the lutjanid family, what else is a member of the lutjanid family? Mangrove jack!! They farm tuna don't they?

Mangrove jack are a more recognised species and have a greater range of living conditions and are quite tasty!!!

Gene splice the size enhancing gene to a Mother Jack and start farming!!!

The following varieties of fish have been genetically engineered:
Abalone
Atlantic Salmon
Bluntnose bream
Channel catfish
Chinook Salmon
Coho Salmon
Common Carp
Gilthead bream
Goldfish
Killifish
Largemouth bass
Loach
Medaka
Mud carp
Mummichog
Northern pike
Penaeid shrimp
Rainbow trout
Sea bream
Striped bass
Tilapia
Walleye
Zebrafish

Once again this thread was a bit of fun, for sh*ts and giggles.

I by the way voted NO as nature will always find a way.

Sea eagle swoops down on farmed fish stock but drops egg bound GE fish into local feeder creek??

Farmed prawns found their way into wild after wrong pump was triggered and flushed instead of sucked.

Ozwald
19-10-2007, 12:23 PM
It could have some possibilities I reckon - modify the genome of a couple of species such as flatties or bream to make them have an almost suicidal desire to jump onto a soft plastic. We would then have a new sub-species that would keep the wife occupied during the day and stop all the "I'm bored, havent caught anything in over an hour and want to go back" comments.........
You could also go in the opposite direction and alter some jacks and barra to become a little smarter and therefore a lot harder to catch. You'd also engineer them to have a fluorescent "H" on their gill cover so that you knew you caught a fish that was "hard" to catch........ then you'd have some bragging rights down the pub!

Jeremy87
19-10-2007, 01:07 PM
Apology accepted, though the reply you just made giving links to data sources would have probably been a better initial reply. It was an interesting read and brought to my attention a few facts i was not aware of. You are right if i am guilty of anything i do take serious issues seriously, though i would not consider my view of the world blinkered, rather realistic.

All of the links you have provided have been in relation to a single species of fish attaining faster growth rates, this can easily be misinterpreted into thinking that their maximum size will increase by the same degree and that the technology can be used in a variety of species (one or two fish on the list may have but the rest have probably been subjects of different projects).

The links you referenced all have a negative view on genetic engineering and as commonly seen from this style of media they tend to hollywood alot of facts. The greenpeace link however did mention the number of deffects associated with the rapid growth. As i stated earlier genetic engineering at the moment is limited to substituting one or two additional genes, varying a mangrove jacks genome so dramatically that it reaches the proportions of black bass is possible but probably at the limits of what we are physically capable of(a better solution would be to genetically engineer black bass to better their eating qualities or make them more suitable to aquaculture). Increasing the maximum size of a whiting by a factor of 10 at the moment is still Hollywood.

I'll do more research into the topic

Jeremy

hungry6
19-10-2007, 02:12 PM
GM is a fair bit more advance than people takes it for granted!!! Sometime ago is said I had a science background, GM is right down my alley.
Well, in laymans term, increasing the size of plants stock is relatively simple (multiplying the chromosone count found inside the cell) and cheap, where as complex life form are much harder and is well and truely underway by labs all over the world, funny enough, right here in Bris. we facilitate one of the most advance segmented research station as a feeder for larger OS lab.
The problem with GM is that plants genetics should remain in plants same as animals, but when plants and animal genones are spliced, Yes,,, "Houston we have a problem.."
The scary facts is that this is going on as Im typing this.
GM in it early day have shown a few hairs, but when it is sorted and "control" it is the only solution to feed the population explosion we have on this planet.
This is the very reason why large chem. firm are plowing in hundred of billions of dollars into GM as the rights to GM will one day control nations and define boundaries.

But going back to the original discussion, we wont have a choice, it's already happening, just hope they have the right biological controlling process in place.
and a GM fish of the size suggested would not live very long in the wild.

jman2016
19-10-2007, 03:36 PM
Genetically engineered or "[t]ransgenic organisms, can be defined as these which have received sequences of DNA by artificial means, followed by integration of one or more of the novel sequences into their chromosomal DNA" (Laight & Maclean, 2000). What this means, is that a specific genetic sequence, in this case one that will hasten growth and that was obtained from another organism, is to be inserted into the genetic sequence of the salmon. In the early stages of this research, scientists obtained these sequences from humans, rodents and cows. However, in more recent scientific experiments, sequences of fish origin were discovered (Laight & Maclean, 2000). These useful genes with fish origin were first discovered accidentally by Newfoundland scientists who were trying to improve salmon's cold water tolerance with gene therapy. They discovered that the gene did not do what they had originally planned, but gave them surprisingly useful results. By splicing a piece of this gene into a salmon's growth-hormone gene, the salmon would grow much faster and to much bigger sizes (Golden & Thompson, 2000). With this information, these scientists started A/F Protein. This company focused on the genetically engineered salmon (Golden & Thompson, 2000). These new transgenic fish grow to enormous sizes, that is, to about five hundred and fifty pounds. They also grow at an accelerated rate and are ready for market sale twice as fast as regular salmon (Aken, 2000). From this example, it is clear that genetic engineering certainly can be an asset by lowering market costs and even increasing the world's food supply, but the risks involved as well as people's opinions need to be considered.

http://www.uhh.hawaii.edu/academics/hohonu/writing.php?id=15

All factors point toward GE fish released into the wild would quickly decimate the wild population due to the gene splicing creating mutants with voracious appetites!!

A 550 pound Atlantic salmon??? WTF!!!

A 550 pound tailor??? All someone needs to do is see the $$ potential and it is all over people.

google "transgenic fish" and have a look at the images - brings a whole new aspect to 'live bait' potential!!!!

jman2016
19-10-2007, 03:50 PM
Sorry to harp on but you have to try this link

http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/tv/columns/story?columnist=sutton_keith&page=g_col_Sutton_future_fish

Please read the information in this link as it contains information pertaining to fishing and genetic engineering.

I'm not the only one thinking about this!!!

The fish are already being trialled in experimental fish farms!!!

Dirtysanchez
19-10-2007, 04:47 PM
Ahh, has anyone watched that B grade movie where they genetically modify the Mako sharks for a cure for Altzheimers (I think it was deep blue sea) ?

Anyway, that could be the result, ultra large critters that turn the tables and are no longer prey, but predators..

I for one don't relish the thoughts of wading the shallows flicking plastics for Flathead when in fact, Big Bertha flathead is lining me up for his dinner ;D

Eagle
19-10-2007, 06:36 PM
NO! - NO! NO! NEVER, GET RID OF ANY SUCH IDEA.
Do we all suffer from ultra short memorys? Not me!!!
I read a book about 20 years ago about geneticly altered corn that was sold as pig feed. Just on one farm alone (there were hundreds of farms struck) all the pigs died within two weeks. The cause of death was malnutrition. A farmer here in Aust had some grain that he planted (GM) and it was sterile. the only way he could get more was to buy the same seed from the suppliers. The whole farm collapsed and he lost his entire farm and savings.
GM animals are simply not on. I have no regard or respect for these biology boffins after working alongside of them for 20 yrs at a uni. Been there, seen that. We dont need any GM fish or animals or seeds in any shape or form. Its not on!!
If you think I'm crazy, do your own research.
Eagle

tunaticer
19-10-2007, 07:04 PM
Unfortunately all the GM work is well underway and like the calici virus, it will escape into the wild either deliberately or accidentally. We as a race are driven to provide for our desires more than our needs. Desires that want bigger and better and faster and tastier and any other sensory development that can be made.
The big bucks are made in satisfying those desires and that is what will drive the GM harder and farther. Feeding the population will simply be a side product of benefit.

As hard as it is to imagine and to deal with the big problem we face is overbreeding. Somehow an adjustment will occur and NOBODY will like the consequences. Whether it be disease, famine or war, there will be an adjustment and a large number of our population will be the cost.

This GM debate has its merits and its bad points but it also alludes towards mankinds desires for the extraordinary. We all want to catch that bigger fish, have that better experience and so forth. Are we ever really satisfied?

I enjoy fishing, it's not my life, my sustenance or my reason for living. Thats why I am very happy to catch average fish that can occasionally satisfy me that little bit extra by providing me with a very tasty average meal as it is meant to be.

Jack.

FNQCairns
19-10-2007, 07:18 PM
A forktailed catfish that tastes like a Banana smoothy.....I would eat that:):)

tunaticer
19-10-2007, 07:39 PM
FNQ, you aren't on the daquiris tonight are you??

Jack.

FNQCairns
19-10-2007, 07:50 PM
FNQ, you aren't on the daquiris tonight are you??

Jack.

Soon...... very soon :)

Jeremy87
19-10-2007, 09:02 PM
Thats a big ass salmon, but would a transgenic fish grow that large in the wild, and would a non transgenic fish reach a similar size in the same conditions given enough time. All fish have the potential to grow comparitively large depending on food avaibalility, those transgenic fish would have had the food pumped into them. the purpose of these transgenic fish is to grow quickly and attaining large sizes is a side effect of this. Though these fish are attaining great sizes what is the cost, these fish are probably the defective ones.
keep the links coming its making interesting reading and your very close to making my original statements incorrect.

Tropicaltrout
19-10-2007, 09:21 PM
well boys your scientific research is a fantastic read , I think we all have to agree it is a simple joke type question, the thought that we will catch a 250 lb barra from awoonga will only crowd it more regardless weather we think its a good idea or not. So personally I am not for it I think theres enought garbage in the world and we should leave out fish alone!

And my arms are far to short for all the stories!! LOL

gunnabuild1
19-10-2007, 11:29 PM
Theres a story by a fella named Derek Hansen [from memory] about genetically modified trout cant remember the book title but it was a collection of fishing stories [highly recommended]but through the story he goes through the problems involved food sources and so on but the thing is fiction has a way of quite often predicting the results of tampering [for want of a better word]with nature its often a long way short of the mark but hey nobody could go round the world in 80 days! and Max Smarts shoe phone will never be possible.
The future looks bloody frightening!

Mrs Ronnie H
22-10-2007, 08:34 AM
Hi All

Aren't we already eating genetically enhanced whatever.
Oysters, Prawns and crabs.
They are already producing soft shelled sand crabs for restuarants and what about these farmed prawns. Look into the research and you will find most probably that nature has once again been 'tampered with"

Not that I agree with this but that progress for you. So they all think.

Ronnie

jman2016
26-10-2007, 01:12 AM
http://www.glofish.com/buy.asp

I rest my case!! :evil:

I'll say no more!!

Please join the dots!!

...i hate to say i told u so but...