Drag Upgrades.

[Flattie Assassin]

Where do you buy them and can you install yourself?. Could anyone shed some light on the benefits please? Do they increase drag pressure and the smoothness of the drag? Any info would be much appriecated.

Cheers
Merrick.

[nuggstar]

haven trubble with ya capricorn mate. what reel ya looking at hotting up

[Flattie Assassin]

No probs but had been considering upgrading the washers on a sonora. Found it. Jack Erskine is the bloke... Thank god for search ::)

[Hardb8]

G'day M.P.
With a drag upgrade you will achieve a smoother,More consistant drag.Also higher top end pressure.

You've already found Mr Erskine,Who does everything for you if ya send him ya reel,Or you can order the parts and do it yaself.

You can get kits for most reels,Both the fiber and metal washers are available.

Reasons for replacing metal washers are,When they are stamped at the factory,And when they're centre is punched out,They can be left disstorted,And not be completely flat.This can result in a drag that performs inconsistantly due to the washer being (Ever so slightly) buckled,And it will also reduce the washers surface area (Drag pressure) when in contact with the others,As it's not a truely flat surface.

The metal after market jobs are quite expensive,So I lap my standard one's myself at home,And the reuslts,Although time consuming,Are awsome.

How to trick up stockers,
You'll need :- A sheet of glass about 20cm square.A couple of sheets of wet and dry sand paper in the following grades.
(600,1200 and 2000) 2000 can be hard to get,But try ya local panel shop,And they should be able to help ya out.The others you'll get at the local hardware.These grades are not an exact science,Using the 600 then the 1200 will get em flat for you faster,A close enough grade is O.K. for flattening but I recommend the 2000 grit for the final stage.The polish.I think Jack (The master) finishes off with a grade of around 1500?For reasons I don't understand.I think it may be so the washers actually have a little bit of friction and are not too slippery?:-/

Just place the sandpaper (600 first) on ya sheet of glass,Add a small amount of water,And sand the washers surface in a figure of 8 motion till it's flat.You'll see just how bad (Warped) they are after doing a few laps.Continue till it's true.Do all the metal washers surfaces that contact fiber washers in the drag stack.

Change to 1200 and repeat,At this stage you are only making it easier to polish with the finer paper,As the washers are now true from the first (600 grit)stage.Then on to the 2000 (Always in a figure 8 motion),The finished washer will be dead flat,And very shiney....Sanding order (600-1200-2000)

Clean them with Shellite or a similar solvent,And they're then ready to be greased (With Cal's) and reinstalled.

This will get ya stock washers to their utmost best.Or you can pay the money and buy em.Up to you.

What I highly recommend from Mr Erskine is :- His Carbontex washer kits,And the Light Weight Cal's grease.Add these to ya reels drag stack,With ya hand lapped steel washers and ya drag will be exceptional.;)

All my reels have been done in this manner with outstanding results.:)

Just done a Steez 103H.Brand new,The drag was quite jumpy.It was stripped before being used and rebuilt in the above fashion.On completion I tested low end pressure.....Smooooth as a baby's.....Then the upper end by jamming my thumb between the spool and the frame.And with the star screwed up,I could NOT stop the spool from turning.....Big time pressure!Then by small increments,Started backing it off and checking it periodically to the point where I could stop the spool form turning.Estimated around 6-7kg :o ,Still silky smooooooth with no shuddering at all on start up.

I don't know what it's true upper end is,But I can tell ya....It's some fair dinkum weight.

Mr.E is very proffessional,And will have ya stuff to ya in no time.The best modification you can do to ya reels,Fullstop.

Hope I've been of some help...Cheers B8.;)

[Flattie Assassin]

Thanks hardb8 for giving such a comprehensive answer. I very much appreciate the info. Cheers cobba.

Merrick. ;D

[Longshot]

What hardb8 says is spot on, been doing that for years to all reels, plus changing the fibre washers to split chrome leather works a treat.

Word of warning when you are lapping the steel washers down keep you finger away from the hole in the middle or you will soon wear the skin off. I did first time round and it hurt like hell and as it was the index finger r/hand spinning reals were a no no for a while.

[Hardb8]

G'day Longshot,

It seems we have a bit in common.Both from Redcliffe.Both learned about sanding ya finger the hard way ;D ,And we both have split leather experience.8-)

I used to make split leather washers for my Abu's years ago.And they perform unreal when done right.I found the only problem was longevity,And they had to be replaced if used hard and regularly.I also found under extream pressure they would expand and flatten out of shape.

Split leather makes for a very smoooooth and consistant drag washer material in the lower end of the spectrum though.If I hadn't discovered Jack's Carbontex washers,I still be making trips to the tannery.


I really enjoy enhancing reels.It seems to make an already enjoyable experience,Even more fullfilling.:)

Cheers m8. B8.;)

[The BeaR]

Hi Flattie Assassin...
In my opinion you can't go past Jack's Carbontex washers, they are in all of my certates as well as my dogfight. These days as soon as a reel comes out of the box, I replace the washers with Jack's Erskine's, as my first certate only lasted three months after wearing out not only the felt drag washers but also the plates, which were immediately replaced with the carbontex, so now I just replace them from the beginning and that way I am confident that my gear won't let me down.
They do increase your drag pressure slightly as well as giving a much smoother drag that lasts without ever getting sticky. I have had them in the certates for nearly 12 months now, fishing responsibly hard while testing my rodz on a regular basis, and they are still going strong. I highly recommend them.

Eric&Deb....
P.S. Nice Avatar

[Roo]

hey Eric,
Do you lap the washers in the certates?
cheers Roo.
:D P.s.you should get that avatar too!!:D

[The BeaR]

Roo...The plate washers in the certates and the saltigas are machined so there is no need to, for that matter I have them in all my reels and I don't bother lapping any of them, the reels now with carbontex replacements remain silky smooth and have absolutely no start up at all under the drag settings that I use, which for the most part is always maxed out. I just feel they are a very good investment for anyone who is truly into their fishing.

Eric&Deb...

[Lovey80]

Good work Hardb8, I've never really pulled apart a real other than for a comprehensive clean and oil and wouldn't know the first thing to look at sanding. Have you thought of doing a short Utube video of the process?

Cheers Chris

[Hardb8]

Hi Chris,
Dunno about a vid?As I'm a puta novice,And I can see myself having trouble with links and stuff assocciated with getting it up here.

My Millionaire light is due for a rebuild,And I'll try and take some stills of the tools and steps taken you'll need to achieve a nice smooth drag.I'll also try to attach the appropriate info describing each picture.

I add other stuff to my reels as well.Some of which saves weight like Carbon handles and knob kits.

Luberication products have cult followings aswell,Some like Rocket Fuel,Others factory oils and greases.And after years of experimenting,I too have my own favourites.

I've also recently been trialing after market bearing systems,Such as ZPI's SIC bearings.There are a few others available aswell,And I'm ordering some of TG's ABEC 7 rated bearings soon for my Steez.:D

Bearing systems do make a noticeable difference to the performance.You can cast the same distance with a little over half the effort.If you are concerntrating and have your reels brakes adjusted correctly,And ya thumb on the job,You can add several meters to ya overall distance achieved,Which in some circumstances can be a big advantage.

There is heaps of stuff you can do to some reels to enhance them.But in my experience,The most important,And the first thing you should attend to in any reel,Is the drag stack. ;)

I just really dig tinkering with my reels.
Cheers. B8.:)

[Roo]

This has been a great thread. thanks to all who have contributed.

HardB8,
I was checking out some drag upgrades yesterday on Plat. the kit is a tube of oil to apply to the drag washers (1 drop every 15 or so trips) and a bearing that you use to replace a bush from under the spool on the certate,exist etc. do you think these are worth it? they were about $90-100 US.
cheers, roo

[Hardb8]

G'day Roo,
Plat...MMMMMMMMMM,Tackle porn ;D LOL.I'll clarify that about 80% of my work is on baitcasters.I'm aware of the kit ya seen though.I have done my TD-S 1500 in the below method,And I'm very happy.

My personal thoughts are :- The bearing will add smoothness and longevity to shafts over a bushing,And could be a wise investment.And as mentioned there are alot of oils and greases out there.I have no personal experience with the oil in that particular kit,And therefore cannot comment on it's performance.

90-$100 U.S. is a fair whack,And if it were me,I'd probably do this.

Remove the stock bushing,And take it to a local bearing supplier for them to measure and order a replacment.Depending on size,I reckon you be up for about $15.

Then get in touch with Jack for a Carbontex washer kit to suit ya reel.My Millionaire kits (3 Washers) cost $23 in total and $4.50 for postage.Contact him for a price on the kit you need.Also get a tub of light weight Cal's grease,About $12 from memory?This little tub will last ya ages,And I mean ages.A top investment for the future of ya gear.It comes recommended as a mulit purpose grease eg :- Drag washers,Gears,Shafts and levelwinds etc.But I only use it on drag washers and metal drag plates.I have other secret sauces I use for gears etc.But Cal's is the best I've found for the drag stack.

I'd then hand lap the standard metal washers for the cost of a few sheets of sandpaper,About $5.

Totaling around $60 AU,Give or take a few bucks.I'd go this way myself ;) .But it's your call.If you do the above scenario,I think you'll be very happy with the result.

Cheers. B8.:)

[Finnatical]

Great info provided there guys.

Stupid question time..... How much drag grease do you apply to the new drag washers in a baitcaster type reel? I have recently replaced the drag washers in a Calcutta 700 with Carbontex from Jack Erskine. I only put a fine layer over the carbon washers but am not sure if this is enough. The drag feels alot smoother although I can only get around 5kg maximum out of it which is only fractionally more than with the standard drag washers.

Any thoughts would be appreicated.

Regards,
Jason

[Roo]

Thanks HardB8, I'll give that a go.
cheers, Roo.

[Hardb8]

Roo,
Just visited Plat.Got's me a $tiffy while I was there.I love that place.If we're lookin at the same kit?It's the one from the I'ze Factory and is priced at 1680 yen.
This is only about 16 or $17 AU at the moment.Plus ya shipping and handling.Could be worth checkin out if it is the same one???

Hi Jason,
No such thing as a stupid question.I apply a thin layer to all washers,Both metal and fibre.

With metals I put a dab on my index finger,Then press it to my thumb,So it also has a little on it.Then put the washer between the index finger and thumb with reasonably firm pressure applied,And turn the washer around a couple a revolutions so it gets a thin film on both sides.

Carbontex (Fibre washers) I find these take more grease as they are a woven material.Same technique,But with a small circular motion of the index finger and thumb is applied to work the grease into the woven material as you are turning the washer around.I must stress there should not be an excess of grease applied.Eg :- The washer will still appear flat when viewing it's thickness.(No greasey bulges) You don't need much at all.It's just the nature of this material soaks up a bit more lube than the metals,As the metals are truely flat.

Sounds like you've put a nice ammount on.

Pressure wise,Is the drag star bottoming out/Running out of thread when it's tighned up?This will happen if the carbontex washers are significantly thinner than the standard (Duralium?) ones.If they are thinner,It will reduce the overall height of the stack,Therefore you will need to tighten down the drag star more to to achieve the same pressure with the thicker standard washers.If ya thread is bottoming out,You have achieved the maximum the reel will allow.You may be able to apply a spacer/Washer in there somewhere (Above the race that the roller bearing runs on,And below the star) to give you more thread to work with,Which will allow more pressure to be gained.

It's hard to say without the reel at hand,But this is the first thing that comes to mind.If ya have ya parts breakdown sheet still,Refer to that,And hopefully you will understand my above writings,And be able to get some more grunt out of her.

Most of my reels are Daiwa's,And their standard washers are pretty much the same thickness as Carbontex washers,Therefore the tolerences remain the same.I am blown away not only by the improvment in smoooothness,But the upper end pressure is now frightening.:o

If worse comes to worse and you can't work out how to get any more pressure out of it,Take comfort in knowing your drag is much smoother than before.I'd rather fish with 2kg of smooth consistant pressure,Than 6kg of jumpy,Stop starty crap any day of the week.;)

Cheers. B8.:)

[Finnatical]

Hardb8,

Thank you for that very thorough description. I applied the drag grease in the manner you decribed so it saves me from doing it again. I think you have a very valid comment about drag pressure as well. While the drag has not increased much it is significantly smoother and I have more faith in it when it comes time to land something bigger than normal. I am running 30lb line on it so the maximum 5kg drag that I am getting out of it is all that I need anyway.

Thanks again for your advice, it is very much appreicated.
Regards,
Jason

[Roo]

Roo,
Just visited Plat.Got's me a $tiffy while I was there.I love that place.If we're lookin at the same kit?It's the one from the I'ze Factory and is priced at 1680 yen.
This is only about 16 or $17 AU at the moment.Plus ya shipping and handling.Could be worth checkin out if it is the same one???



Yes thats the one!! I must of been thinking of the price for a spare spool. oops!
I might end up getting one of these although i'll get myself a few other bits too, to make the shipping not so bad.

[Hardb8]

Apollo,
This one may also be help to ya.Bit more drag specific.

Regards.

[cam007]

this has been a bloody good read thanks fellas well done

[Apollo]

Thanks H8

Excellent read and source of info.

Apollo

[Malcolm1976]

Thanks for all the info guys. I had the graphite washer in a Calcutta 700 break on a Spanish Mackerel last trip. The graphite ended up in pieces throughout the reel, and for the rest of the run (which didn't last long before it locked up) it was metal on metal! Needless to say the metal washers need a LOT of work. But I managed to hone one down today (now my arm is hurting). I'll do the other one tomorrow. Then I will be replacing the graphite washers with the carbonex ones. Bit of a shame, the graphite sure was smooth!

[ffejsmada]

Just about to do a few drag upgrades. Have ordered my Carbontex washers from Jack, am about to go get my wet and dry.
Have done a search and found this thread to have exceptional help in it.
Thanks Hardb8, excellent stuff.

Jeff.

[try to fish]

master jack???.as far as i know,he havent got any washer for the certates,sustains,stradics,tierras and stellas.took him ages to reply back and as for carbontex washer...........preety pricey.
realise the man is a legend but try alan tani from the states for some ht-100 washer which is preety similar to jacks carbontex.follow his brilliant and complete tutorial on his own website to get a picture of what to do.
ball bearings.................only place to go is bocabearings.com.try my local bearing shops............cost a ton for a few of these miniature bearings.also give the hobby shop a call to find if they stock the ones youre after.just get the inner diameter x outer diameter x width measurement to get the one youre after.
or made it easy for yourself and get the whole lots from master alan tani!!!.cant fault his services especially on the shipping department.......perfect!!!.

[hangar]

good question fin,its prob been covered in previous thread.but i would also like to know the answer to the grease quantity on drag washers.just done my abu 7000 with carbontec and used rocket fuel liquid grease was wondering if this was ok.it does seem to be a lot better than before but i haven't done a kg test...cheeers peter

[Tewantin]

For what it's worth, I recently upgraded and serviced a lot of my reels, both threadline and multiplier, and I can only sing the praises of upgrading your standard felt drag washers with carbontex (I got mine from Erskines).
It truly has been amazing the difference it has made to the smoothness of my 2 little Daiwa Excelers. These are the reels I mostly fish with and the two main areas of dissatisfaction that I had with these little cheapies was their lumpy and unpredictable drag and the sloppy freeplay of the handle axle through the main gear cog.
Other than stripping these reels down and completely removing all oil and grease before relubing with Cals grease and rocket fuel (Yellow) oil, I replaced the felt drag washer with the Carbontex washer, lightly lapped the metal washer and added a liberal amount of Cals grease. The difference in the smoothness of the drag and the added pressure is absolutely amazing and far exceeded my expectations.
I solved the excessive and annoying freeplay in the handle by wrapping a single layer of thin aluminium sheet around the handle axle and lightly pressure fitting it back through the main gear cog.
These little reels now feel and perform like reels twice the price.

[Brent_P]

If you give Jack Erskine the inner and outer diameter of the washers you want (via email), he'll supply you with the correct sized Carbontex washers for any reel model - at least he did the last time I ordered from him, two years ago. One set I bought had quite a large inner diameter but, like he said, it didn't seem to matter. The washers were about $25 for a set of three.

A mate of mine had a Daiwa Saltiga 6500 EXP ($1500), and he improved the drag with a set of Carbontex washers, soon after he bought it.

Brent.

[flairj]

At the risk of being tarred and feathered..............

go to smoothdrag.com for carbontex washers and Cal's grease. Half the price even with postage from the states and it's where Mr E. gets them from anyway.

Josh

[gleeeza]

All good stuff!

I went through this about 2 years ago with some TLDs and a Bait Runner, it certainly sorted things out on these reels and will I do the same as necessary on future reels. If any one is interested there are some comprehensive tutorials on this forum by Alan Tani for TLDs and some other models I just cant remember now. They are step by step with great photos for all steps needed, he takes nothing for granted catering for the complete novice. He also posts on "Senior Tuna", the guy is prolific.

Cheers I hope it helps someone!

Gleeeza