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metaloid
27-09-2007, 10:13 PM
Hi all,

I've bound (badly) many guides over the years but have never built a rod from scratch and now I'm attempting to build a 7ft blank into an OH 50lbs live-baiting rod.

I've got the guides and the reel seat sorted (DPS24), but I'm lost with the choice of grip length and diameters! I've found recipes with 5'' foregrips, and others with 10'' foregrips for the same style of rod, and then diameters ranging from 1/2 to 3/8 or 5/8...:-[

I'm a metric man, so in my books, the blank diameter is 20.5mm at the butt and 15.0mm at the (expected) top of the grip.

Could I get some advice or (grip) recipe that would suit that blank. Oh, and also I'd like a brass winding check to finish the grip...:)

Owen
27-09-2007, 10:42 PM
Metaloid,

Mount your reel seat with some tape or something in about the right spot.
Then hold the rod under your arm as you might when fishing and see where your hand sits.
Then have someone pull like buggery on the tip (carefully) and see where you need to put your hand to comfortably fight it.
The grip should cover both these points IMHO.

As to diameter, if it's EVA/Hypolon it'll stretch a fair bit.
If it's cork then you need it to be the same as the samllest part of the taper on the rod that is covered by the grip.

sid_fishes
28-09-2007, 06:31 PM
i have a question to all the rod builders out there. why is it that when the average guy/ girl asks a question we only seem to be answered by the average guy/ girl, why cant you /or dont answer, not all of us want to rip you off or make money out of this gig, hell you guys cant, but we all get a kick from doing it ourselves. me as a old tradie i pride myself on what i do,it has to be right, and when i want to learn i dont like making mistakes, so how about helping us all out. CHEERS SID

metaloid
30-09-2007, 10:04 AM
Hey, I want some of what you had for breakfast, Sid! ;D I totally understand your point because believe me I've been thinking long and hard before deciding what type of guides and what type of thread, and what type of epoxy, and how many coats should I use and should I underbind, etc. And of course, I've already screwed up big time (wrong diameter for the tip at $10 a pop, probably wrong size EVA grips, another $10...). So yes, there is a lot of sweating (and swearing) for the newbies and a bit of advice from the pros doesn't hurt. However being a regular reader of rod-building forums, I don't think that there is any conspiracy out there, in fact I find a lot of the posts helpful, especially when several rod-builders "comment" on each other's advice!!!;)

Anyway, that was just my soap box to say that any help/advice is welcome and to thank those who volunteer their experience for the benefit of the less gifted!

On a last note, how much stretch can I expect out of EVA. I have a 13'' grip with 1/2'' ID, any chance of using it on a 15mm to 20mm blank?

Stuart
30-09-2007, 11:17 AM
After those last few comments I wonder if I help enough. I mean attending every RBW and by private email, I would like to think I have helped many hundreds if not thousands of people in their rod building endeavours. Personally I don’t have that many spare hours in the day and when I do I don’t always get online to help out.

Anyway mate to answer your question I wouldn’t use a spin specific blank, they tend to have a much thinner wall in the tip section and have less material hence why they are soft enough to cast a country mile. If you want a live bait blank then look at some of the Calstar models, I make my own but you won’t get them. I don’t like anything from this country, it’s a shame but that’s life. If you really want to use that blank then you will need to cut at least 3 inches and maybe more from the tip in order to get to the meat of the blank. This may sound bad but I have cut over 123 inches from another model in order to get the action I needed.

The real seat is fine, however don’t over tighten the thing other wise you will split the hoods. As fro rear grip length I like 12 inches fro the grip plus the gimble but that’s me. As fro the fore grip I would go 11 inches or even 12 as you will be reaching for the sky if you hook up to any thing huge. The top of the blank were the grip will stop is 15mm then go for a grip ID of 12mm or ½ inch. In essence you want a grip to stop at least 2 inches above were it will wind up living for ever. If the grip is tight then all you will be doing is wiping away the glue as the grip tightens down the blank. As an end result you will have no glue under your grip. That’s why you see so many loose grips were they are still only glued by the top 2 inches and the rest is blowing around in the breeze. The use of masking tape is another way to help out.

If you wrap 5 inches of tape around the blank every 20mm apart under the were the grip will be glued. Do this all the way down and what you will fine is the glue will get caught into the tape edges and help glue the blank to the grip.



Stu
Precision Rods

tunaticer
30-09-2007, 12:00 PM
Hypalon and eva grips should be about 2-3mm smaller in diameter than the smallest part of the rod where they will be mounting on. Cork needs to be a firm fit for that location.
I carefully mark out where my grip lays beside the rod before anything and work out where the winch mount will be and the top of the grips.
I mark a full 20mm back from the top of the top grip and i use the corner of a medium bastard file and rough up everything below there with moderately heavy scratchings all around the blank making sure i score right through the gloss varnish material on the exterior. This will give the glue lots of contact ridges to adhere to.
I then mix up enough glue epoxy (24 hour high strength epoxy) and apply enough to do the bottom grip. Hold your thumb over one end of the grip and pour in a capful of paint thinners and seal the other end with your other thumb and wash it around fully inside the eva / hypalon grip and pour out the excess back into your thinners pot.
Slide the grip in one long easy motion right down over the glue to where it will be required to stay.
I then mark out where the reel seat will be and build up wrapping 10mm wide masking tape around the blank about 10mm above the bottom grip, the middle of the reel mount and 10mm from the top of the reel mount. These need to be built up to create sealed areas between the mount and the blank.
I then backbone the blank and place a small piece of tape on the bottom grip to line the mount up with roughly. Apply lots of epoxy between the rings of tape and the lower grip and then bring the reel mount down. Once it is fully down find the backbone again of your blank and adjust the rotation of the mount to the precise location you desire.
Apply epoxy to the top grip area and treat the top grip with thinners and slide it home fully again. Be sure to control any excess glue so it doesn't run down the threads or under the hoods to stuff the winch mount. Clean up with thinners and a tooth brush being careful to remove all excess anywhere on the rod.
Once you are happy with your rod STAND it in a corner of a room as close to vertical as possible for a full 24 hours. This lets any bubbles under the reel mount to rise to under the top band of tape and lets the majority of the glue settle into solid glue right around the blank. If it is laid down the glue will fill all of one side of the blank and the entire length on the top side will be unsupported with glue making a lousy job of support. This is probably the most critical part of seating a reel mount apart from back boning it correctly.

Jack.

Rodman
30-09-2007, 04:40 PM
Hey Metaloid

Get yourself a set of veniers

Rodman

metaloid
30-09-2007, 11:20 PM
Thanks for all the replies, I already feel a lot more confident... well, starting from zero, that was easy!

I've learned a few tricks: position the reel first to get an idea of where the hands will go, choose a grip 2-3mm smaller than the blank, use plenty of tape to hold the glue and let the rod stand vertically (I don't have a lathe), soften/clean the grip with thinner... Now if only I could learn to clean epoxy before I make a reel mess!!!;D



Get yourself a set of veniersI know but I can't get myself to buy a dodgy electronic one, I'm still looking for a decent manual model (same type I used at uni many moons ago).

tully
02-10-2007, 11:52 AM
Save yourself some money Metaloid, and buy a cheap plastic set of verniers, they're good enough for rod building.