Would you allow a water test?

[joeT]

Following on from the 'Water Test' thread, I was wondering what people think of the converse - if you were selling a boat would you let a potential buyer water test?

Again, it would probably depend on type of boat, value, your location, etc. but just to get a rough idea.

I think I would let any serious buyer water test. If it was an ausfisher, I would probably use the water test as an excuse to get on the water for a fish at the same time, so wouldn't ask for any money. But then I've never had anyone ask for a water test (even though I've offered) so I'm not sure if I'd change my attitude if I get stuffed around a few times.

[MyEscape]

I voted Yes, and I wouldn't ask for money. I think I would seel my boat this way AFTER making fairly sure the buyer was genuine.

i.e. he had the money to buy the boat. I wouldn't take someone for a run the first time he looked at it. Probably wait until he's been to look for the second time. Maybe brought someone else for a second opinion sort of thing.

Steve

[nigelr]

Agree with seejay.
Fair dinkum buyer, no problems.
A decent on-water display would be very beneficial to a sale, IMO.
Cheers.

[shags101]

would you buy a boat without taking it for a run?

[joeT]

would you buy a boat without taking it for a run?

It would seem by majority, it would seem so...

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=116716

[Pirate_Pete_Tas]

I voted that I would but not take any money but I probably be it the boat too.

After all if I am selling my boat I would want to show how well it handles, how easy it it to launch & retrieve, all the little tips & tricks that make my boat best for them. $$$$ thats what I would do, after al I would only be selling to get something bigger & better. :D:D:D

[Roughasguts]

I'm inclined to say no.

I can almost under stand if someone has seen your boat for the third time and still looking at it, but is he looking for an exscuse not to buy it. I would wan't fuel money from him maybe 60 bucks.

If I wan't something I try and research as best I can, order it cause theres usually nothing to take for a test run EG: new model M/crosser, Rotary tiller.

A guy bought my old Cordia Turbo, cause he liked the look of it didn't even start it before he handed over the cash and done the paper work, he said he was going to spend big bucks on it anyway.

I bought all my stuff the same way except second hand cars.

Think if someone really wan'ts something they have made up there mind in the first sight of it. They won't need a run in it to convince them there doing the right thing.

For example is Signature a good brand, is Suzuki a good brand, is Mackay a good trailer. If yes to the above and all are in visual sound condition, it's just a matter of price, you will still need to spend some dollars getting the rig prepared and serviced Both hull, motor and trailer for your own safety and peace of mind.

In the back of there mind they know they will need to do something to make the boat better and more suitable to them so one or two other little things shouldn't be a problem for a boaty that's been around a while.

It's half the fun it was 6 weeks before I even had my boat in the water when I bought her, she was only 5 years old then. But I new her well after going through every part of her.

[DR]

Yes, but on my terms.
I would do it on a day that i want to go fishing & they could fit in with me.
I have had too many bull**i**ers over the years & they have made it difficult for others. I am not about to waste up to 3 hours ( inc travel) on someone that just wants a look to see if it is the sort of boat they may be interested in.
It would be meet me at a predetermined time, one that is agreeable to both, you would get my mobile & be asked to ring if you are going to be late, 10 mins after agreed time & no phone call i would leave the ramp & not look back.

[PinHead]

I have mine for sale...I am certain any potential buyer would want a water test but i have to ascertain if I think they are serious enough first..but then again..I do not need much of a reason to take the boat for a run.

[bluefin59]

I voted yes to an water test i dont need much of a reason to put the boat in i'm sure once its in and you show them what its about they will usually buy they have with the last three boats i sold ,but saying that i am only 15 min to a boat ramp, same if i want to buy i want an on water test if not they miss out i would have the cash if they trully want to sell ...matt

[Grand_Marlin]

You get to know (usually) who is genuinely interested in buying your boat... they ask the right questions, bring their family / friends for a look, have done research and have decided this is the boat they want and are ready to talk prices.

I am more than willing to take someone for a run in the boat ... sometimes a good excuse to get on the water myself ;D
Seriously, it is a pleasure to show off my workmanship and show the buyers exactly what they are getting.

If you are a serious buyer and a private seller refuses a water test, WALK AWAY.
...there could be something to hide, or they just have a $hithouse attitude.
Either way, they dont deserve your money and you have plenty more choices on the second hand market.

I make it a small trip to test the boat / motor ... I dont make a full day fishing out of it.

From the last thread, I cant believe the amount of people who dont water test first.
You have to know how a boat handles, if the power is sufficient, the stability at rest, the ride comfort etc before you buy.
Just because it is new, doesnt mean it is any good - even from the top manufacturers.
All models will vary, and they all have their "quirks" ... it is a matter of sorting out what is best for your needs and what you are most comfortable and happy with as a complete package.

Cheers

Pete

[Chas & Clarry]

I wouldn't buy second hand without water testing so wouldn't expect to sell it without either. I'm only 5 mins from closest ramp so its easy, but of course, I'd definitely be on board and sure the person was serious.

[fishing111]

Ditto what DR said.

[Black_Rat]

When I sold my 4.2 Dory the bloke wanted a water test. I said "yeah no dramas", we met up at the Pine River for a test on the weekend and after the test he bought it. The Yammie even started on the first go ;D

If I was buying a new or used boat and had never driven the boat before i'd insist on a water test.

I was fotunate to spend some time in mate of my cousins Formosa before I bought mine so I knew how it handled.

[rat_catcher]

I would absolutely allow a water test, but as has been said above you keep it to a short outing with just enough time for the potential purchaser to run through his test scenarios. I just bought a second hand 702L and the water test was a part that was non-negotiable for me. I would not buy the boat without it and the seller had no issues with taking me. It just gave me another level of confidence in the deal.

[longtail]

Yes i would take them for a test run.

As others have said though , only a short run up the river . had a bloke meet me at the ramp when i was selling my old tinny , he turned up and proceded to get a number of rods , esky's , buckets etc out his car :o i said to him do ya want to buy the boat or go fishing ? he said he wanted to go fishing while deciding . i said not going to happen and got back in my car and drove home. 2 hours later he rang me and appologised and came around and bought the boat. i should point out that we had aggreed that we would just do a quick run in the river just so he could see the motor started etc. i would myself expect a test run , but i would never turn up at the ramp with a car load of fishing gear.

Jason.

[BM]

In buying and selling boats as a business I have never water tested a boat prior to purchase. Don't need to. During the pre purchase inspection process I can generally see any issues that need fixing so I don't bother.

At the other end of the equation, I would always provide a water test for a buyer but there has to be money on the table first (in the form of a reasonable deposit).
The sale contract can be conditional to satisfactory water test (in private sale contracts also obviously) but without money out of someones hand you are at risk of wasting your time.

A water test in my book generally comprises a 10 minute spin and thats about it. No need to be gone longer than that. And never a rod on board for a boat test.

Cheers

[gone_phishin]

A friend of mine here in Bundy has just bought a boat from the Brisbane area (advertised on Ausfish), didn't take it for a test run, was told the guy didn't have time to get a Safety Cert for the trailer, had another buyer waiting to buy at the asking price straight after the friend was driving down to look, so price was not negotiable, etc. etc. yadda yadda yadda. I know what you will all say about caveat emptor but with the endless hassles he's had since getting it home, I know he regrets not taking it for a test run. In fact it's been nearly a month and he has still to be able to get it off the trailer, with stuck and rusted rollers, leaking bungs, broken gear change cable, crook bearings, bung electrics, an old useless battery, stuffed electric winch, etc.!! I asked why he didn't ring and complain, and at least he's realised that the bloke could just tell him to p#ss off, and he doesn't like hearing that sort of thing.

So would I want a test run?? you bet...and certainly from this guy, especially when it was myself and another member who told the friend about the boat on here. No, I will not tell names as I'm sure this guy knows who I'm talking about. Good on ya>:(.

[bluefin59]

BM I know you are in the business of selling boats for a living and i respect your opinion but if you want money up front for an on water test then you would lose me as a customer i would never front with any cash until i was completely satisfied with what i was going to purchase weather it be a boat a car or a house its up to the seller to convince me to part with my hard earned cash ,and expecting to take fishing gear would be outragious there are heaps of boats out there for sale it really is a buyers market just my opinion ......matt

[PinHead]

In buying and selling boats as a business I have never water tested a boat prior to purchase. Don't need to. During the pre purchase inspection process I can generally see any issues that need fixing so I don't bother.

At the other end of the equation, I would always provide a water test for a buyer but there has to be money on the table first (in the form of a reasonable deposit).
The sale contract can be conditional to satisfactory water test (in private sale contracts also obviously) but without money out of someones hand you are at risk of wasting your time.

A water test in my book generally comprises a 10 minute spin and thats about it. No need to be gone longer than that. And never a rod on board for a boat test.

Cheers

BM..I had a dealer wanting $20,000 deposit and a signed intent to buy contract prior to a water test..I told him what to do with his water test and his contract...there is no way I would pay for an on water test.

[mik01]

I can't believe anyone would demand money or refuse to allow a potential buyer an on water test. I would not buy your boat on principle - especially if you want me to part with fuel money!!! haha ur kidding yourself.

as the seller you have to take the good and the bad. usually, anyone wanting a test drive is a keen buyer. remember - you want someone to buy your boat - its not a priviledge for the buyer to be allowed to test the boat and ensure its what they want.

I told a guy I wanted to test it on water, and have the outboard tested by a mechanic and he got pi$$ed off. fair enough mate - you can keep the boat! Its still for sale now and has been for 2 and a half months - gee I wonder why?

[BM]

Bluefin59,

Present day, I

[STUIE63]

Yeah i'd give one no dramas but not fishing rods it is a boat test even though on the other poll i said I hadn't taken a boat for a water test.
Stuie

[4x4frog]

. No, I will not tell names as I'm sure this guy knows who I'm talking about. Good on ya>:(.
Firstly, g-p I think you or your mate should at least send details to A/F so this can be noted by them because we are all mates here and this isn't a very 'mately' outcome. Shame on the seller if they were a regular member. I have no idea who it was and they could be just a blow in.



On the test drive of boats...all's well and good for those who buy regularly to say you don't need a test drive but I wouldn't buy a car I hadn't driven first, and wouldn't expect anyone to hand over fistfuls of $$ for something they hadn't tested either.. I even paid to have a professional appraisal of a car in the UK a couple of years ago to make sure I was getting what I paid for. (didn't end up buying for a couple of reasons)

[Getout]

On the condition that the sale will proceed subject to a satisfactory water test. Joyriders abound.

[jimbo59]

I was selling a alloy boat a few years ago and a bloke from victoria was up on holidays and he had a look at it and said can i start it i sad yeah so we fired it up and he got in and said can i put it in gear, i said yep so into gear it went and he gave it full throttle and then ripped it back into reverse as the fan was spinning wildly and i could nearly see me diff commin out the prop.I got right up him and said get back on ya camel ya not haven this one>:( .So when i take the people for a test they have to pass a bit of a test to see if they can handle a craft,if they seam a bit green they become passengers.

[Heath]

First bloke to water test our old boat bought it :)

[Mr__Bean]

A friend of mine here in Bundy has just bought a boat from the Brisbane area (advertised on Ausfish), didn't take it for a test run, was told the guy didn't have time to get a Safety Cert for the trailer, had another buyer waiting to buy at the asking price straight after the friend was driving down to look, so price was not negotiable, etc. etc. yadda yadda yadda. I know what you will all say about caveat emptor but with the endless hassles he's had since getting it home, I know he regrets not taking it for a test run. In fact it's been nearly a month and he has still to be able to get it off the trailer, with stuck and rusted rollers, leaking bungs, broken gear change cable, crook bearings, bung electrics, an old useless battery, stuffed electric winch, etc.!! I asked why he didn't ring and complain, and at least he's realised that the bloke could just tell him to p#ss off, and he doesn't like hearing that sort of thing.

So would I want a test run?? you bet...and certainly from this guy, especially when it was myself and another member who told the friend about the boat on here. No, I will not tell names as I'm sure this guy knows who I'm talking about. Good on ya>:(.

This one is my bet:

http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=114956

By all means, correct me if I am wrong....

- Darren

[Blackened]

G'day

Would I water test? only for a serious buyer and only after qualifying them and only for 15mins or so.

Would I expect one?? damn right, but funnily enough the boats that I've had I didn't water test. Dad bought one, fair enough and it was a 12' tinny and a present for me and my brothers.

Second boat was a calypso caper cat,.Mate had exactly the same one so knew its traits and we gave the one I bought a thorough inspection and no worries.... It was only $950 so no worries there.

BM, I can fully understand your viewpoint, gets rid of all the tyre kickers but pinhead, 20k deposit and contract to water test? how big was the boat?

I remember a client of mine had a 80 footer worth 5million, had a bloke turn up for a water test, out comes his mate, both families and their kids, needless to say they were told to move along....

Dave

[PinHead]

G'day

Would I water test? only for a serious buyer and only after qualifying them and only for 15mins or so.

Would I expect one?? damn right, but funnily enough the boats that I've had I didn't water test. Dad bought one, fair enough and it was a 12' tinny and a present for me and my brothers.

Second boat was a calypso caper cat,.Mate had exactly the same one so knew its traits and we gave the one I bought a thorough inspection and no worries.... It was only $950 so no worries there.

BM, I can fully understand your viewpoint, gets rid of all the tyre kickers but pinhead, 20k deposit and contract to water test? how big was the boat?

I remember a client of mine had a 80 footer worth 5million, had a bloke turn up for a water test, out comes his mate, both families and their kids, needless to say they were told to move along....

Dave

it was a 28' Mustang..buying price was about 120,000.

[Blackened]

G'day

still really only a baby being a 28' and at 120k. 20k deposit was a bit steep, but then again, i'm not the dealer.

Dave

[Dean1]

Gee i just read gone phishin's thread and thought he was talkin about me! I sold my plate alloy lightning a few months back to a guy up near bundy but it certainly wasnt me coz i took him for a watertest and he's told me he's had it out on the water and happy with her. I always demand a watertest i think your crazy if you dont. Even if you know how that model peforms etc. And im always more than happy to take someone for a watertest if they seem half keen, and i would never ask for money no way.

[bushbeachboy]

I have offered a water test for every boat I've sold. But, I'd be going with them. So far no one's actually tested any of them.

[BM]

Bluefin,

I understand your point of view. But from my perspective, why should anyone think they can tie up someones time for nothing?, in my case it would have been close the yard, attend the ramp, do the test, retrieve and get back to the yard which would typically be an hour minimum for the exercise. So that hour, coupled with possible missed walk-ins and no commitment from a potential buyer doesn't make for a financially smart equation for me.

Now, as an example I was (I say was as I don't sell per se anymore instead prefer to service, repair and rebuild as its far more profitable) willing to test run on a deposit. Go to one of the large dealers and its ALL money on the table before test run.

Pinhead, that deposits not overly excessive based on the sale price of the boat. I always took/take 10%. The signed sales contract is fairly standard to lock a buyer in. I never used them but the bigger dealers do. And its not just marine, sales contracts exist everywhere.

Mik01, sure the seller wants to sell his boat but time is money and I see no reason why a seller should have their time absorbed by possible time wasters. Sure, if the vibe you get fromt he buyer is promising then you may take a punt on a test run without money on the table (I know I have in the past) but its still time and time is still money.

I guess privately it may be different but even privately I would still want a deposit. If that lost me a sale then so be it, there will be other buyers.

Cheers

[Big G]

I think it is very simple....with a trailer boat the hull, engine and trailer etc are easy to inspect where they are stored. If all the on land inspections are up to the buyers standard and he wants a sea trial he must be convinced if the boat performs he wants to buy it..... So what stops a genuine buyer from putting down a deposit on a sale contract where the purchase is subject to a sea trial...... could only be one thing, he did not intend to buy, just wanted a free ride.

I would never expect someone to take me for a sea trial without firstly being convinced that I wanted to buy the boat, provided it performed up to the standard claimed by the seller....... on the other hand if the seller was not interested in a sale deposit subject to a sea trial then I would walk away.
So a sale deposit subject to an acceptable sea trial helps the seller verify the customer is genuine and ensures the buyer is getting a good deal.

Got to be a win win situation.

Big G.

[PinHead]

Bluefin,

I understand your point of view. But from my perspective, why should anyone think they can tie up someones time for nothing?, in my case it would have been close the yard, attend the ramp, do the test, retrieve and get back to the yard which would typically be an hour minimum for the exercise. So that hour, coupled with possible missed walk-ins and no commitment from a potential buyer doesn't make for a financially smart equation for me.

Now, as an example I was (I say was as I don't sell per se anymore instead prefer to service, repair and rebuild as its far more profitable) willing to test run on a deposit. Go to one of the large dealers and its ALL money on the table before test run.

Pinhead, that deposits not overly excessive based on the sale price of the boat. I always took/take 10%. The signed sales contract is fairly standard to lock a buyer in. I never used them but the bigger dealers do. And its not just marine, sales contracts exist everywhere.

Mik01, sure the seller wants to sell his boat but time is money and I see no reason why a seller should have their time absorbed by possible time wasters. Sure, if the vibe you get fromt he buyer is promising then you may take a punt on a test run without money on the table (I know I have in the past) but its still time and time is still money.

I guess privately it may be different but even privately I would still want a deposit. If that lost me a sale then so be it, there will be other buyers.

Cheers

The dealer that wanted that deposit did not get a look in on a sale because of that condition...I was not parting with 20k and signing any contract just for a boat ride.

[BM]

I think it is very simple....with a trailer boat the hull, engine and trailer etc are easy to inspect where they are stored. If all the on land inspections are up to the buyers standard and he wants a sea trial he must be convinced if the boat performs he wants to buy it..... So what stops a genuine buyer from putting down a deposit on a sale contract where the purchase is subject to a sea trial...... could only be one thing, he did not intend to buy, just wanted a free ride.

I would never expect someone to take me for a sea trial without firstly being convinced that I wanted to buy the boat, provided it performed up to the standard claimed by the seller....... on the other hand if the seller was not interested in a sale deposit subject to a sea trial then I would walk away.
So a sale deposit subject to an acceptable sea trial helps the seller verify the customer is genuine and ensures the buyer is getting a good deal.

Got to be a win win situation.

Big G.

PRECISELY Big G. That is exactly how I see it :)

[mik01]

cmon guys - how many people want to waste your time by taking a ride on a boat? for what purpose - the sheer thrill of a few minutes in a boat?::)

what if you are trying to decide between two boats (at different dealerships) - do you put a deposit and contract on both? plus, a sales contract subject to a 'satisfactory sea trial' is worthless anyway as it leaves the potential buyer to choose any reason for not proceeding with the sale, and you can't enforce it.

if you persisted, and I was interested, I would write you a cheque which I could cancel at any time (only if you are a dealer, not private). I think for a high value boat, you would be entitled to ask for a deposit or intention to buy, however my post earlier related to a private seller demanding fuel money!!!

I can walk into a luxury vehicle dealership (not porsche or ferrari obviously) and take one for a test drive at any time without a deposit or contract. what make buying a boat so different in this context?

p.s. - what's a timewaster anyway? anyone who looks but doesn't buy? aren't we all timewasters then? I admit to being a timewaster - I walked into a shop once and asked questions of a salesperson about a tv, then didn't buy it.

perhaps he should have demanded a deposit before taking his time to talk it over with me...

[PinHead]

PRECISELY Big G. That is exactly how I see it :)


BM..we spent 3 months looking at boats..got everything from some great service to being told we could not afford the boat we wanted to look at.
Went for a free test drive on a locally built boat..now that was a heap of crap..crossed that one off the list.
Another dealer..part of one of the Country's largest importers was fantastic..answered all our questions..test runs with no questions asked...we just told them straight out what we were doing...comparing one make to the other to see what we were going to buy.
Another showed us over his boat...test run without any problems..we went back to have another look several weeks later...he had the bigger boat there..he asked if we wanted a test run in it...we did and ordered it that day..goold old fashioned friendliness..no hard sales lines ..no pressure and no problems with havign a test run...and a quality product...even bought the boat without a contract being signed..all done on trust..pity that does not happen a lot more in dealings these days.
More than happy with the service and the boat...maybe some dealers should take lessons from this bloke.

[Chris Ryan]

I agree with Pinhead on this one. I have worked in sales for a long time and I have always managed to weed out the tyre kickers from serious buyers just by the words they used and their body language. I admit it is in a different area than boats being IT, but people buy from people and I have made more money on a handshake than a contract in the last 15 years.

I am selling my house at the moment too; I don't ask for a deposit for someone to walk through it even though it is taking time out of my day to be here with the agent to ensure the place is good and they respect my things. I also have never left a deposit on buying a car, can take them for a test spin for 10mins easy whether than be a Commodore or a Mercedes.

So why is it the Boat dealerships do? Surely this is calculated into the cost of sale when adding the margins made onto the price of the boat? I do understand your position on the closing the shop etc, but most of the yards I have seen here around Brissy will hold a test/demo day where you rock up to test the boat you selected one morning/arvo in the week as a scheduled activity. I suppose it is horses for courses between the different industries though too.

Not having a go here BTW, just stating my opinion and thoughts BM. :)

Cheers mate.
Chris

[BM]

I had actually typed a lengthy reply yesterday but the dreaded ausfish refresh thing whisked away my post :( :(

Pinhead, that is exceptionally good service mate. In reality the larger venues are more readily able to accomodate such activities due to the sheer number of staff on hand. Although, its still not the case here in Melb. Dunno why. And yes there seems to be a certain degree of "toffyness" in the marine trade with some haughty taughty sales staff looking down at people. That always makes me laugh that these type of salespeople have these attitudes. After all, they don't own the business they only work for it. So their snobby attitude is ridiculous!

Mik01, of course the "subject to satisfactory sea trial" gives the customer an easy out and thats why its there. The important thing is that money exchanged hands and the commitment that represents. Of course the sale can still fall over.

Chris, yep understand your point. Although you choose to be present at your house so in effect not trusting of the agent. But to answer why the boating insdustry is how it is?? Couldn't answer that. It just is. Bit like why are outboard parts so expensive? Probably because they can get away with it. And it all ultimately I think comes back to the fact that boating is classed as a luxury activity and like all things luxury they are a premium.

Yes, the demo days are an excellent way for people to water test various boats although the whole exercise is very costly. Balanced of course by the hope of selling a few.

Cheers

[mik01]

yeah that refresh thingy has ruined me a few times :(

lol - just saw my 'dukes of hazzard' champion status. That Daisy sure is right purdy.
bow down before me ye all!

[steveg1100]

When I bought my boat I had the money with me agreed to a price and then we took the boat for a spin to ensure everything is ok. All satisfactory handed over the money and took the boat. This was from a private seller. If I sell it again I would lend the same courtesy to the prospective buyer.

I think this is the way to go. I would not hand over the money without a test drive. But that is just me......

I did the same with a previous boat I was going to buy that I then let go. Problems with both motors on the test run put me off and I no longer wanted it.

[Chris Ryan]

.....Chris, yep understand your point. Although you choose to be present at your house so in effect not trusting of the agent. But to answer why the boating insdustry is how it is?? Couldn't answer that. It just is. Bit like why are outboard parts so expensive? Probably because they can get away with it. And it all ultimately I think comes back to the fact that boating is classed as a luxury activity and like all things luxury they are a premium.

Yes, the demo days are an excellent way for people to water test various boats although the whole exercise is very costly. Balanced of course by the hope of selling a few.

Cheers

Hi BM,

Thanks for being upfront mate and yeah, trusting the agent is an issue as they can only be in so many places and with pools, acerage etc. they can't see where people/kids are and liability issue come into play.

I guess from the boating industry point of view with the pastime being classed as "luxury" is probably old school to some extent considering the increase in boat sales due to increases in income per household etc. Maybe attitudes will change over all (and of course we are talking about the industry as a whole, not individuals within) to the better but while money is being spent, why would they? Catch-22 as always.

Cheers,
Chris

[troy]

The last boat i sold i learnt a lot from.
From memory i had the boat advertised for $30000 and had this bloke who kept on coming around and going over it and over it.
He finally said he would buy it but wanted a test run.
Being an hour one way from the ramp i started to doubt this bloke so i asked him to come around and i said to him that i am willing to test run it but are you aware of my price and he said yes but then went on to say the boat was worth x amount the motor x amount and trailer x amount.
He then offered $25000 .
This is why i am cautious with test runs even though i believe honest buyers should be entitled to them.
Troy

[BM]

Hi BM,

Thanks for being upfront mate and yeah, trusting the agent is an issue as they can only be in so many places and with pools, acerage etc. they can't see where people/kids are and liability issue come into play.

I guess from the boating industry point of view with the pastime being classed as "luxury" is probably old school to some extent considering the increase in boat sales due to increases in income per household etc. Maybe attitudes will change over all (and of course we are talking about the industry as a whole, not individuals within) to the better but while money is being spent, why would they? Catch-22 as always.

Cheers,
Chris

Regardless of where the money comes from, marine is still classified as a luxury market. And is it really increase in household income? or probably more likely an increase in household willingness to go further into debt in a low interest rate climate.

Sure, in this day and age of "I want it and I want it now" things are a bit different but peoples "must have" desires dont alter the classification of an industry, they in large proportions just become statistics of the "overhocked" market..... And what I mean there is those who decide on their own or are convinced by their bank to "hell yeah, go buy a new boat and whack it on the mortgage". All is great in a low interest rate market but when the rates climb (as they are) people start to feel the squeeze and the first thing to go is the toys.

I feel sorry for any person who owns a boat on finance. I believe that if you cannot buy it with cash moolah, then you cannot afford it. Simple as that. No doubt many will disagree, but they cannot disagree that the boat I own with my cash is safe and mine by comparison to the boat they "quasi" own, when they default and its siezed by the lender...

Cheers

[Chris Ryan]

Very true BM - couldn't agree with your sentiments more. Thanks for the open discussion on this mate and hearing things from a dealership perspective is very refreshing and really helps get a balanced view. I appreciate it!

Chris

[Angla]

I remember buying my first boat.

I looked at it from over a fence at first, then went back and met the owner at a mutually convenient time. I inspected the boat inside and out and said I would get back to him.
I then asked the wife to look at it over the fence and she was happy for me to put it in our front yard.
I spoke with the owner one more time to tee up a test run the following time that would suit him. He said I could take it for a spin after he had been fishing with the kids for maybe the last time, I took it for a cruise out of the harbour and took it to about 4000 rpm and did a left U turn and a right U turn. Then back to the ramp and gave him the cash and took the boat home.

The test proved the motor operated at idle and full power and that the boat was stable at speed turns. The steering appeared tight and the boat rode over the wake easily. Trim and tilt also appeared to work properly.

Chris

I would do the same for others

[Ryan.S]

As long as they are genuine, sure. Id be in the boat with him but.

[whichway]

Hi

Then there was the time that I had a very interested buyer, took him for a water test. He thought the boat motor package was great, so great that he went and bought a new one, and my price was already a fair market price. I don't think the dealer would do a test drive, so he used me.

From now on, I want a deposit before any water test

Whichway

[Angla]

Whichway, I think you could ask the dealer for a spotters commission for the sale.

Chris

[PinHead]

I had my boat listed on Boatpoint for a month or so...maybe more...I refused to pay a dealer the 8% + GST commission they wanted. I had an enquiry from Victoria..The gentleman concerned and his wife flew up last weekend...looked over the boat and bought it..no water test at all.

[BM]

Thats entirely up to you Pinhead.

Some people don't want to deal with the tyre kickers or genuine lookers. They aren't interested. They'd rather have someone else field all the BS and then hand them a cheque when its over.

But of course, to each his own and well done on a short turnaround. I guess Boatpoint probably has a lower tyre kicker perspective than the Trading Post. Not sure why but it seems to be that way. Particularly if you have an interstate buyer then the BS factor is likely to be quite low and the prospects high.

Cheers

[PinHead]

BM..no dealer could answer the questions about the boat as well as I could..I have had it since new and can recite the entire history and know exactly where every item is located on the boat.

[BM]

Very true, but a dealer who cared would take that on board and harness it and either take on everything the owner said or in the case of a genuine buyer, put the seller in touch with the buyer.

Well..... thats how I would approach it with a really passionate seller, since it makes it a winning scenario all round.

Cheers

[finga]

There wasn't a point in a water test for my first two boats.
When I got them they were rowboats :)
The motors came later :D

Greg if I was after a boat like your old one and saw yours and seen how new, how clean and well looked after it was I honestly don't think I would worry about a water test either.
I'd offer one just to go for a run.
A lot about the general condition of boat or car or tractor or house can found out just by looking at the smaller details like the suncover on your old boat or the cleanliness of the prop.
Someone who doesn't give a toss isn't going to put a suncover over the boat and jump into the water every two weeks to clean the prop are they??

[Shagga]

I would agree to a water test only if the buyer is serious. By serious I mean the buyer would have to agree to buy the boat subject to the water test.

[TheRealAndy]

From the other side of the fence, I am off to mackay on the weekend to buy a boat. Its the right price and I will most likely buy it. However because I am driving so far to get it, I told them on the phone that I would like a water test just to make sure everything is good. The chances of my not buying it are slim, however if they had refused to put it on the water I would become suspicious and would have probably bailed out, so to speak.

[PinHead]

I ended up selling mine...buyer saw it on Boatpoint..contacted me..I picked them up at the airport..took them to see the boat..went to lunch and did the deal..no test..all they wanted me to do was supervise the loading onto the semi trailer for it to go to Melbourne.

[muzzytt]

after buying my first boat without water testing it and being assured by the seller engine was ok wich turned out not to be the case now an extra $3300 down the track after buying a secondhand engine there is no way I would even entertain the idea of buying without testing.

[goldfish]

i would give a water test on most boats however if it was a cheap runabout maybe not but most i would after price had been disscused & deposit paid. this is how i have bought my boats looked, liked, worked out the money subject to water test, water test, hand over the cash, then watch the wind blow its arse off so i can't go out in it. such is life.

[TimiBoy]

I said "I'm not sure".

The reason is simple. There are a lot of folks out there these days who'd ask because they wanted a spin, and weren't serious. It would take some time and discussion before I felt comfortable that the person was serious.

Once they were properly "qualified", sure, why not?

Cheers,

Tim

[Mrs Ronnie H]

Hi all
We just recently sold our boat and we took the fella for a test drive.

Seeing I just ordered a new boat myself-- Contract said buy subject to water test and handling.

I would not buy a boat unless I took it for a test-- would you??????

Ronnie

[Stinger]

When I sold my last boat the guy wanted a water test so I simply said to him I was planning to go fishing on the Saturday and if he wanted to meet me at the ramp I would take him for a run.
No hassle he agreed and the sale was completed after the fishing trip.

[The-easyrider]

I'am with Tim once the person was sussed out to be sure he is not a tyre kicker yeah no problem. Once I enquired about taking the new freedom 640 seasport for a water test , they said sure just sign up and pay 20% deposit and we'll go down to the bay but you cant go off shore , so I said "stick that up your a$$ ", I am sure there would be some sus clause like once the water test is complete you are contracted to buy or forfit depoisit
cheers er

[MarkDiver]

I would agree to a water test only if the buyer is serious. By serious I mean the buyer would have to agree to buy the boat subject to the water test.
Shagga I agree with you.
If you've been through the ordeal of numerous water tests as I have (sorry I can't spot the tyre kickers that well! :o ) then the fuel and time do add up quickly. I've cancelled weekend plans too. I won't bore you with all the experiences. In future, if someone's had a few looks and was happy with my boat he would be expected to buy it pending water test/mechanical operation. So yes, non-refundable deposit to cover fuel only. No contracts.

Regarding car sales as comparison, I don't take a car for a test drive unless I intend buying it. I know what it feels like to drive. I would almost be prepared to sign a contract pending a test drive.

[coucho]

There is no way i would buy a secondhand boat that i never put on the water and took for a run!! I seen a good friend of mine buy one off a dealer without puttin it in the water it was less then affectionately dubbed the red lemon after its maiden voyage. The transom had been replaced the outboard was too heavy and there was less then an inch from the waterline to the cowl at rest. The Transom leaked and outboard got dunked first time out.
had he put that on the water there is no way he would of bought it.

[wilcara]

I voted No, but it depends. I'm not going to lose a good deal if I need one but at the same time I am sick of being screwed around by tyrekickers. I'd happily take a buyer out, but if you rang me up and asked for a water test, then "Nar!"

[black runner]

I voted yes without a deposit. But I would only do the water test after a verbal assurity of purchase after a succesful trial.

[Hornet Rider]

Not only would I allow a water test, I'd encourage it, but on my terms:
1. At a mutually convenient time, but I'd make the extra effort to fit in with the buyer's availability.
2. Subject to weather conditions. We're not going out if it's unsafe.
3. $100 cash donation to me for the test to cover fuel (car & boat) & my time. Totally refundable if the person buys the boat.
4. No more than 30 min on the water, excluding launch & recovery time. At the ramp before launch they'll get a safety brief & a full brief on all safety gear, pre-lauch preparations, & how the test will proceed so that any unmet expectations or potential confusion is cleared up before we're in the water. During the test I'll demonstrate the boat's performance & talk them through WOT & cruise, if they don't already know, trim settings, etc. then hand over to the potential buyer. If we're having fun, I might decide to extend the test time if it's mutual.
5. On return to the ramp, talk them through the recovery & offer to show them how I flush the motor & clean the boat when we get back to my place.
6. If they decline a water test but buy the boat anyway, I make a note on the receipt 'Offer of water test declined by the buyer. Boat purchased As Is, Where Is.'

cheers, HR

[MarshMan]

Would have to agree with Pete. Too many dodgy sellers out there and if your going to invest good money in a fishing vessel then you'll want to give it a good run to make sure that it will do everything you need it to.

I also think that if you as a buyer would need to have a water test run before you buy, then you should extend the same courtesy to a genuine buyer looking at buying your boat.

Cheers.

[Tazmaniac]

I've been only too happy to take people out if GENUINELY interested when trying to sell a boat. I never asked for payment, I wouln't pay to test a boat I was interested in buying. It's another excuse to get out on the water ! I personally would not buy without a sea trial, so would not expect someone else to.
Taz

[Jabiru658]

I would offer a water test, but I'd expect enough $ to help cover the cost of the test.

I live 45 minutes from the water (at highway speeds) and it's a good hour job to shuffle the vehicles around in order to get the boat out of the shed on top of that.

That's 2 and a half hours of time plus 150kms of car driving plus the short test on the water.

I don't think $50 to cover the car fuel is unreasonable in those circumstances, it would be different if I lived close to a boat ramp.

[AnthonyL]

I would be very sus if someone didnt allow an on water test. I would like the person to be genuine but if not oh well any excuse to take the boat for a run haha.

I like the idea of going for a fish too, good way to make a deal.

[CHEE-FEE]

If they are a genuine (ie. qualified) buyer, deposit down first, then a water test. If it's only a cheapie boat that doesn't take long to clean up, then we'll see. But, if it's a good-dollar boat, get a deposit first. Have a look at the people, the vehicle they turn up in (look for a tow bar!!) and where they have come from. If they are young yobbos, they might be just wanting to go for a spin in this or that sort of boat ("haven't been in one of those before") or sussing out what gear you've got in your boat, your house or your shed; if your gut feeling tells you they are no good, they probably aren't. Suss out potential buyers and just see what they've got to say; most who keep wanting to tell you how good they are (or were back in the day) are just tyre-kickers and you should try and dispense with them as early as possible. If they are going to leave a deposit, make sure it's worth it; it would be desireable that if they are coming to look at your $ 45,000 boat, they should have more than $ 50 in the kick. If they make an offer then stutter a bit or look for excuses when you ask for a deposit, that means they have no money and it should be suggested that they may wish to come back when they have some money; rest assured, they will never darken your doorstep again. Lastly, never buy anything from, or try and sell anything to, men who wear shirts unbuttoned to the navel to show big hairy chests, men who wear thick gold neck chains or men who wear, or who are in possession of 1 or more, Panama Hats; anyone with and combination of 2 or more of the afforementioned traits should be treated like poison.

Cheers,
NICK.

[rpgs60]

I have recently sold my boat and at the buyers request provided a sea trial however I only agree to a water test as the final step in the sale. By that I mean the final sell price was negotiated and agreed upon by both parties subject to the satisfactory sea trial and unless the sea trial discloses an issue, mechanical fault or other, then there would be no further negotiation and the sale would be finalised. The boat was sold and both the buyer and I were very satisfied.

Ross

[Maddac]

I think you have to allow it.

I have purchased and sold many boats in my time. The most recent being $80,000 second hand boat. I was required to pay a deposit and sign an contract before the water test. The contract was subject to a sea triall to the buyers absolute satisfaction.

No fuel money was involved.

I thought that that was reasonable.

The tinnie I own was bought without a sea trial as it was only worth $5000 and a bargain at that.

Cheers

Ad

[copie]

Hi all well my answer is yes. I have both bought and sold boats with and without water tests. I think when it comes to buying a second hand boat privately (no warranty it's 2010 people do get ripped off) and the package appears all good to look at then a water test to finalise the buyers decision is ok. This being completely understood by both parties the deal is done if the boat performes as described. As for buying new i think different what if you think you would be happier with a bigger engine, maybe your stuck between 2 brands, maybe 1 dealer appears to be offering more than the other. Wake up the buyer is now about to spend a large amount of money iam talking 40-50k plus WHAT you think just because the salesman says its great it will be, DREAM on. Get with it dealers have demo boats and or demo days 5 or 6 a year so hard working honest people can make their mind up. Thanks for the read thats my 20 cents worth.
Mark

[FNQCairns]

I know I wouldn't like to do one on the boat I have. The engine is raised too high, the average punter will not like it, they will try and whip into a turn and it will want to go straight ahead and then ventilate it's self silly...hard to sell a well setup for economy and longevity offshore 'fishing' boat when the one down the road badly setup with low engine, poor proping and a fin or any combination there of will feel so much more right to 90%.

yep! something to hide, i could drop the engine but what happens if I change my mind or a sale takes longer than I want it to stay in dealer type showroom spec.

As is where is take it or leave it. payment in full or cleared:)

cheers fnq

[Steeler]

Been reading this thread with interest and words like " once i am convinced buyer is serious " or " qualified " then a no cost water test is fine.

I would like to know just what it is a prospect needs to do to convince a seller they are genuine.

Just for the record i voted no free ride.

Steeler

[Taroona]

I have never bought a boat without it being subject to a sea trial........

Why would you buy one and not see what it's like on the water?

[gone_fishing]

you seriously couldnt by a boat with out seeing it in the water ...

[Jabiru658]

you seriously couldnt by a boat with out seeing it in the water ...

I've bought my last 3 boats without a water test, although I did pay a professional to inspect each boat and give me a condition report before finalising the sale.

To be honest I trust a professional to find stuff even out of the water that I wouldn't pick up even in the water.

Having said that all 3 were in the $10000 to $20000 price range (not including the new tinny which I've ordered which being new I'm not talking about), if you're looking at spending a larger amount it makes sense to be proportionally more careful.

YMMV

[Jarrah Jack]

I've brought many boats but never asked for a water test and never found reason to regret it. I've also sold nearly as many boats with only two needing a water test to seal the deal which is what eventuated on both occasions.

I didn't ask for a deposit or make any stipulations on the water test, just assumed that the buyers were serious as they had done serious inspections beforehand.

I guess when buying and selling I'm always thinking about the seriousness and honesty of whoever I'm dealing with, its an instinctual thing and you get better at it with experience.

[stevej]

id allow a water test but only as final step in the sale

id ask for a non refundable amount to cover the costs of it, you get guys just wanting to take a boat they are thinking of buying to see if they like the hull or not

im not a free demonstrator for them

[Jurkyjj]

I voted yes and would not ask for a deposit.
I think that you really need to qualify the potential buyer and ask the questions that would lead to the end result of "yes" they are truely interested.
It makes it soooo much easier to get the sale over the line.
If I was buying....I would want to take it out!!

Jason.

[Fish_gutz]

it`s a done thing , would you buy a car without taking it for a lap of the block?, also because you can have a really good look at the trailer before you put it back at the ramp. if it`s a trailer boat.

[sleepygreg]

no way known would i buy a used boat without an on water test. If the vendor wont have it then i would assume they have something to hide. I dont give a rats about costs etc...that can be negotiated.....i pay for fuel etc. But if you wont have a bar of giving the boat a run on the water....then you can kiss my butt.

[swabio]

I can understand the reluctance of people to provide water tests due to the level of time wasters etc... however I personally would probably not be overly keen on buying a boat without at least having the opportunity at a water test...

regarding the deposit for private sales... I am also a bit reluctant as if the test turns out that you are not happy with the boat... you are then trying to recover your money etc.... it is not always the buyer that is the dreamer / bullshitter / time waster.... I'd be happy enough to throw in some money for fuel to facilitate the test..... but that is about where I'd draw the line... as I'd only test a boat I actually am prepared to purchase....

Just a bit of food for thought.....

[Steeler]

I can understand the reluctance of people to provide water tests due to the level of time wasters etc... however I personally would probably not be overly keen on buying a boat without at least having the opportunity at a water test...

regarding the deposit for private sales... I am also a bit reluctant as if the test turns out that you are not happy with the boat... you are then trying to recover your money etc.... it is not always the buyer that is the dreamer / bullshitter / time waster.... I'd be happy enough to throw in some money for fuel to facilitate the test..... but that is about where I'd draw the line... as I'd only test a boat I actually am prepared to purchase....

Just a bit of food for thought.....

Swabio

I think you have summed it up best.

Just my thoughts

Steeler

[TimiBoy]

I allowed a water test yesterday, and didn't ask for money.

The buyers had, however, demonstrated clearly that they were interested, by having a mechanical check and then flying down from Rockhampton. This made it easy for me to assess whether they were serious, but the point is clear - take the time to establish they are serious, then take the chance, IMO, if you think they are.

By the way, they bought Bubi, and she's on her way to Rocky next week. Keep an eye out for her, folks!

Cheers,

Tim

[Steeler]

Well done Tim,qualification before demonstration.

Steeler

[ozscott]

What are you getting Tim?

Cheers

[TimiBoy]

What are you getting Tim?

Cheers

Hmmmm. Nothing yet. I've cashed up, because there's a good chance every man and his dog will be selling their boat and house when the Global and Local Economies hit Ground Zero within 12 - 18 months.

But regardless in 12 months or so I'll have one of these or something like it:
http://www.powercatmarine.com.au/page/Boat_Range/2500_PowerCat_Sports_Fisherman/

At such time I will be in a good position to buy whatever the bloody hell I want. Worst case? I'll have my cash, and can buy back in! I know prices aren't going up much, so fairly safe - if they DO start up (inflation), I have a plan for that too.

Cheers,

Tim

[deckie]

If u really want to sell it sure...if its a decent amount you're asking for the rig then the odd water test is part and parcel of selling.
If u couldnt be stuffed or want others to pay for what is essentially YOUR responsibility to show them as a buyer then just be happy with less money.

Not a chance in the world i;d buy any trailerboat over 10K without a test but thats only after deciding upon THAT boat as the one i want. You can usually spot tyre kickers a mile off after a cpl of well chosen questions.

There are guys out there that seem to get so possessive and lazy they think they truly have something in huge demand and want to act like buyers should be doing them a favour. ALWAYS a buyers market so its quite simple...drop the price or be prepared to do what is necessary but only if they;re serious.

What is truly bizzarre to me are the blokes who think even on a water test if something goes wrong the potential buyer should be helping them out. What the hell do u go for a water test for in the first place ?...perhaps to find out if it's all in good nick and works as stated perhaps ? You want to sell it YOU pay for the fuel too and dont expect a serious buyer to be happy with seeing how she runs cold.
Every guy thinks they're boat is special and overstates its worth..but the reality is there are usually 100 of a similar thing around at the time whether they appear in ads or not..

[therapy]

When I was in the process of buying a boat a few years ago, I took a 5mtr Quinny for a spin after having heard it run fine on the muffs. It started fine, idled fine and for the first 10 minute's ran beautifully. Then the alarm started beeping, the engine management system dropped the rev's back to 1500 and we limped back to ramp.
To the sellers credit, he rang his mechanic and had it there within the hour. I received a call from him to say that the waterports were full of salt and he would get it fixed. Very honest I thought, but enough for me to change my mind. I also found on the water test that my legs didn't fit the best with the curve of the hull and it would be uncomfortable to drive for extended periods.
Water test...Absolutely....No water test = no sale for me!!

Cheers......Terry............

[ozscott]

Hmmmm. Nothing yet. I've cashed up, because there's a good chance every man and his dog will be selling their boat and house when the Global and Local Economies hit Ground Zero within 12 - 18 months.

But regardless in 12 months or so I'll have one of these or something like it:
http://www.powercatmarine.com.au/page/Boat_Range/2500_PowerCat_Sports_Fisherman/

At such time I will be in a good position to buy whatever the bloody hell I want. Worst case? I'll have my cash, and can buy back in! I know prices aren't going up much, so fairly safe - if they DO start up (inflation), I have a plan for that too.

Cheers,

Tim


I have made some discreet enquiries Tim and I am assured that the blond in the 4th photo does not come with the vessel...sorry.

Cheers

[Steeler]

I have made some discreet enquiries Tim and I am assured that the blond in the 4th photo does not come with the vessel...sorry.

Cheers

A very suitable deckie indeed yum yum