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Chas & Clarry
16-09-2007, 12:31 AM
We think being "green" is a good thing, and we're wondering if a lot of Ausfishers would consider themselves to be "green" or if "green" has become a dirty word for fishing people?

There is a lot of thoughtful comment about sustainable fishing, environmental balance, waterway protection, etc etc in these fishing posts and threads.

We're not fans of any kind of extremism or fundamentalism>:( , so we're not meaning "extremist greeny" when we say green is good, (though we'd prefer an extremist greeny over an extremist developer who would happily destroy every mangrove in sight, any day).

Anyway, we fish, we eat fish, we don't want to loose access to Moreton Bay etc, but we still think we are green:) ...we don't use poisons, we don't use fertilisers, we grow organic vegies, we catch rain water, we look after the environment, we minimise power consumption and water consumption, we take our rubbish with us after we camp, we want mangroves and wetlands preserved and we want fish to be available for our kids and grandkids to catch.

sunny
16-09-2007, 04:54 AM
Great poll.

I think a lot of people want to do the right thing by the environment, but the debate has been hijacked by the looney fringe. There have been a bunch of good threads on environment issues lately and a lot of people would agree with some measure of protection. Moreton Bay is a good example, I don't there are many people saying "let's not save the bay for the future", but we got a radical lobby focusing all the debate on the closures and very few people seem to be asking "Is this the best way to save the bay for the future?"

Likewise with climate change, who knows who is right with that debate? On the other hand, I think that many people would be happy with a bit less pollution.

FNQCairns
16-09-2007, 08:30 AM
Great poll.

I think a lot of people want to do the right thing by the environment, but the debate has been hijacked by the looney fringe. There have been a bunch of good threads on environment issues lately and a lot of people would agree with some measure of protection. Moreton Bay is a good example, I don't there are many people saying "let's not save the bay for the future", but we got a radical lobby focusing all the debate on the closures and very few people seem to be asking "Is this the best way to save the bay for the future?"

Likewise with climate change, who knows who is right with that debate? On the other hand, I think that many people would be happy with a bit less pollution.

By all decent and logical measure the loony fringe is actually the government, their mate in kind the 'watermellons' and the restrictions they are forcing onto the largely gullible and uncomprehending great unwashed.

A person has no way to fight this doctrin of 'Protection for protectons sake'. This angers people who would like some decency in proceedings, it has not and will not be forthcoming so the honest comprehending few are forced to meet the Lockout lunatics at their level.

How does one meet idiocy, governemental or Green without at least trying to meet it, who pats a lion while it is maulling said person??
There is a very very good reason the greens are called watermellons.

Interestingly when the watermellons get it right they are right (the issue will have already been understood in REAL science for quite a while before then) but they fight in an identical sense for ground that is simply wrong and unacounted - they could so much better and have the adoration of all people who understand environmental science and the very many recfisherman who by very nature are naturalists but they are content to railroad the public (along with a willingly corrupt government) instead of working to make a difference the environment will actually notice -a win for all and everything conserned.

cheers fnq

NAGG
16-09-2007, 11:14 AM
Good thread ! .... While I'm pro environment ... I really couldn't be considered GREEN :( How can I ? when I introduce many Kgs of lead into the environment every year::) & stick hooks into fish ..... but I do take home my rubbish & old line, I limit my catch (predominately C & R) , run a 4 stroke ...... & then drive off in my Diesel 4WD::) ...... I'm all for certain restrictions (bag/ size limits , closures/ closed seasons ..... when necessary) .... Nagg

fairpractice
16-09-2007, 12:00 PM
Hi All
Just ONE simple question to ask the next "tree hugger" you meet;

Are you a Conservationist or a Preservationist?????

The first relates to most sensible hunter gatherers who want their conditions to remain relatively stable.

The second wants it all to be locked away for good.

Unfortunately there are also the individuals who want to strip the ecosystem bare.

Waiting for the salt water fishing licence anyone?

cheers.

nigelr
16-09-2007, 02:45 PM
I seek to respect and appreciate my fellow humans.
I seek to respect and appreciate God and ALL his creations.
Make your own mind up!
Oh, and I'm not 'religious' either, by anyones' definition!

Timmy94
16-09-2007, 06:45 PM
We got a rainwater tank sittin in the yard but it aint connected, does that count?

catfishkid
16-09-2007, 07:37 PM
Good thread here
I love to fish and almost always take my son,he is 13 and gets quite upset if I dont take him.
I want him and his kids to be able to fish so a sensible and conservitive attitude is required.
We release carefully more fish than we keep.
I agree with any form of sensible conservation.
This current bout of proposed lockouts in moreton bay is a perfect case of non-sensible conservation,i would bet not one of the current law makers is a user of this great resource.
I have recently moved from redcliffe to tin can bay(everywhere i used to fish in front of redcliffe is now under proposed green zone area).
The great sandy straights are covered by mostly yellow zones,we can still fish most areas with restrictions on the amount of rods/hooks you can use at any one time and a few green zones,this system seems mostly fair.Conservation and Preservation seem to be balanced.

Craig

sandbankmagnet
16-09-2007, 07:42 PM
I'm conscious of the impact I have, not only when I fish, but in every day life. Make sure the place you've visited is no more littered/affected then when you get there. Doesn't mean I'm a greenie. I can't stand them. Too over the top. I don't believe in "carbon footprints". I've done a science degree and CO2 impact has yet to be dispalyed as proof. It's just a political bandwagon started by Thatcher and carried on by people who would like to make a living out of it.

Just be sensible about what you do.

ar-we-ther-yet
16-09-2007, 07:43 PM
The problem with the green movement is there is no telling who are the moderates and who are the radicals. Maybe we need a browny green faction to have sustainable living through good education and community support not closures and banning.

BTW I dont use fertilizer either, I would prefer the grass die sose I dont have to mow and can go fishing.

haggis
16-09-2007, 08:12 PM
I voted that i am not green . I do recycle , bring all rubbish back from a fishing trip , I have a water tank ( only so I can wash the boat & cars ) but most things I buy come in plastic of some sort , at work everything we use comes wrapped in all sorts of crap but is put in a big industrial bin but I am not a greeny . I could do a lot more but then I could do a lot less I probably do as much as the next normal person what ever that means .
cheers fae haggis .........................................

bushbeachboy
16-09-2007, 08:36 PM
I'm normally only green just before I hurl.:P

Sometimes I'm green when I read the fishng reports.::)

Hamish73
16-09-2007, 08:42 PM
I care about the enviroment and want future generation to enjoy what I enjoy. I am mostly C&R.
But I ride 2 stroke trail bikes in the forest and 2 stroke boats in the bay. I guess that makes me a hypocrite?

snelly1971
16-09-2007, 08:52 PM
Well i am definaltly not Green....The only part of me that is Green is the little green light on Ausfish when i am on line....I respect conservation and bring home rubbish...line...ect...but i do cut down trees for fire wood and i am also an avid shooter...

Mick

onerabbit
16-09-2007, 09:38 PM
Ok , so many people declare that they recycle, c&r ect, but still deny they are green?? SO...can I say I am green with out reprisal, is that what everyone is worrried about?

I'm not a "tree hugger" either, more a reformed hunter.

Sorry all , but I think to much energy is wasted badgering this poor colour, if we really do care about our environment, including the fish , shouldn't we all be a bit green??????????????????

There , I've said it............

Waiting for the stones.....:D :D :D :D

Muzz

Chas & Clarry
16-09-2007, 09:58 PM
Arrr it is interesting isn't it...

Trying to be environmentally friendly/sustainable in the long term and enjoying/learning from nature and from one another is what it is about.

Eg maybe more of us will test out the environmentally friendly sinkers that got a pretty favouralble review in the ausfish thread below, and reduce the lead we chuchk around??? we haven't tried them yet:
http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=116135&highlight=enviro+sinkers

We don't think it is necessary to have absolutely NO impact on the environment to be green. That kind of focus on perfectionism is for fundamentalists and extremists >:( .

Anyway its all interesting, thanks for the responses.:D

oldboot
16-09-2007, 10:09 PM
One of the problems with the radical enviromental/ anything related movement is the number of people within that have some sort of radical OTHER agenda.

for example within the animal welfare sector (yeh it is sort of related) there is a large quantity of vegitarian," animals are my friends, I don't eat my friends" types. This group have a reputation for at times beeing very agressive.
Now if that lot get a foot hold in the fishing debate we are realy in trouble.

So there is a sector within the conservation movement that does want to lock up all sorts of various hunting/ fishing activities based on a complex philosiphy based on not eating meat.

One thing I have come to understand is that things are never as simple as they should be because there is always someone in the background with either a vested interest or a philosiphical agenda

As anglers we need to make our views known and our numbers obvious.
AND most importantly not wait for government to ask our opinion.

Back to the question.
Am I green........I say no... because "green" is a too simplistic and misunderstood term.

After all nature is many colours apart from green.
I believe in giving nature a fair go at doing what it is suposed to do and helping it along by cleaning up after myself.

cheers

onerabbit
16-09-2007, 10:49 PM
Do they make environmentaly friendly sinkers iin 2lb ???

Thankx guys the last 2 post,

can we lean away from the radicals & focus on everyday events?

Who cares & who dont give a shit? I think thats more the question?

Muzz

sunny
17-09-2007, 06:22 AM
Do they make environmentaly friendly sinkers iin 2lb ???

Muzz

Isn't that called a brick? ;D

Chas & Clarry
17-09-2007, 06:24 AM
Am I green........I say no... because "green" is a too simplistic and misunderstood term.

After all nature is many colours apart from green.
I believe in giving nature a fair go at doing what it is suposed to do and helping it along...

Hi Oldboot, that is a pretty damn good point!:)

Nowhere Bob
17-09-2007, 08:47 AM
Green as I can be.
Compared to say the manager of Rio Tinto- deep green, but pretty ungreen compared to the forest living dreadlock brigade.
It's all relative - if you grump at your Wife & Kids about leaving lights on in rooms no one is in- then you are to some extent a greenie, but I'll be damned if I'm walking the 35 K to work each day. (She who must be obeyed works 30 K in the opposite direction.)
So I guess I'm as green as my budget & responsibilities allow.
Dont use plastic shopping bags, drive a diesel, take home all rubbish (including cigarette butts) recycle & try to compost, minimise power use, ditto water.
But I got out voted & now have a water & power wasting pool in the back yard. So I guess it's 2 steps fwd & 1 back.

oldboot
17-09-2007, 09:49 AM
Green as I can be.
........
But I got out voted & now have a water & power wasting pool in the back yard. So I guess it's 2 steps fwd & 1 back.

But at least you have somewher to trial swim your lures and practice with yoour cast net;D ;D ;D .

cheers

oldboot
17-09-2007, 09:52 AM
Do they make environmentaly friendly sinkers iin 2lb ???

Muzz

off cuts of steel bar stock with a link of chain welded to the top;D

how about a large rock with a swivel glued into it........ there was a bloke selling them on ebay:o

cheers

Brett1907
17-09-2007, 11:58 AM
I try to conserve, although I am in the earthworks industry. You know, we knock down trees and build houses for all the greenies to live in. While they complain about the forests getting knocked down and the dust from the next stage of development. But I do mention to all who wiull listen (developers, enigineers and council inspectors included) that they would save money and help the environment by not knocking all the trees over. Incorporate them in your design, but intelligently select the trees for removal.

I try reduce my impact on the environment, but I need a job and we all need somewhere to live. We take our rubbish with us when fishing/camping/4wding, turn off uneeded lights at home, have a biocycle so we recycle all our water usage, and use the recycle bin. I even recycle my beer bottles at the local micro brewery!! I do use lead sinkers, but now get them from a tyre shop and mould them myself.

Brett

PinHead
17-09-2007, 05:23 PM
I am not green..I waste water...I use electricity...I use internal combustion engines...I live in a house where the materials came from the ground eg timber and clay..the land was cleared so my house can be built...I own lots of products made from plastics (petroleum industry) I do not know if any products I use have been tested on animals... I have animals in captivity (pets), I wear clothes where some of the fabrics have been taken from animals or also synthetic (petrolem industry)..I eat land animal flesh and also sea food..I eat eggs..I eat vegetables where the land had to be cleared to enable these to be grown..but one thing I am not is a hypocrite about it.

onerabbit
17-09-2007, 09:05 PM
off cuts of steel bar stock with a link of chain welded to the top;D

how about a large rock with a swivel glued into it........ there was a bloke selling them on ebay:o

cheers

Cheers oldboot,

I've heard old rail spikes are ok too, but cant find any around here,

I wonder how many rocks he sold?

Muzz

Mattg68
18-09-2007, 03:40 PM
green hey,

now let's see,

car producing filthy emissions - check
car using rubber tyres - check
fuel burning lawnmower - check
electricity using household - check
water consuming household - check
boat producing filthy emissions - check
lead sinker using mofo - check
meat eating neandathol - check
aerosol spraying sonofagun - check
fart emitting inconsiderate bastard - ummfff.........ahhhhh........check

well, that makes me as green as Bob Brown (classic oxymoron that one).

Matt


P.S. i voted to never starting a poll, enough already, haven't i told you what you need to know!!!

dogsbody
18-09-2007, 05:03 PM
I'm a lot greener than i used to be so i'll try and make up a bit of it by using green text.

It seems to be the more beating of the green drum the more greener we all become weather we like it or not.


Dave.

Tropicaltrout
18-09-2007, 07:40 PM
Take home all rubbish and what ever I crosses my path, I hate to see rubish in the areas I frequent, So I pick it up Inthe heat of the day and I am not on the water and theres time to kill why not pick up a bit.... On the other hand I run a 2 stroke and drive hundreds of Kms to get there so hey what do you do.

Lovey80
18-09-2007, 07:50 PM
I think I am with the majority hear and say i'm a conservationist. Not a greenie by any standards. I think that looking back 15 or so years ago almost everyone is a whole lot better for the environment but even if we all conformed to what the greenies are pushing at the moment the bar will only be set higher again and again so there needs to be some common sense in the idea of being green.

Conservational fisher and hunter - check

Cheers Chris

PinHead
18-09-2007, 07:54 PM
Chris..how can you be a "conservational fisher and hunter"..do u use rubber hooks and bullets or something. I cannot see how you can say that.

RayDeR
18-09-2007, 08:11 PM
off cuts of steel bar stock with a link of chain welded to the top;D

how about a large rock with a swivel glued into it........ there was a bloke selling them on ebay:o

cheers

Gday!

An old guy at Woonona (near Bulli) used old spark plugs (he got old ones for free from garages) as sinkers when fishing off the rocks.

When I look at the large number of undersize fish I catch and release, in the Broadwater, we fishermen and others must be doing something "green". The greenies have probably never held a baby flathead in their hand or a squire about 7cm longs and seen the beauty of both. It is a great feeling to see them swim away.

Unfortunately the radical greenies make statements that they can't back up or we can't counter. It is difficult to argue our experiences when the greenies think right is only on their side.


Ray De R

FNQCairns
18-09-2007, 08:30 PM
Greenies/Government greens zones/regulations are preservationist in escence, Rec Fisherman on the gross are conservationists by nature/ability/reality - use/take the/from environment but ensure that in 100 years it is still sustainable, we are already way past that mark and are in regulation now preservationists. Same forced ideology as in duck hunting IMO.

cheers fnq

disorderly
18-09-2007, 08:58 PM
Greenies/Government greens zones/regulations are preservationist in escence, Rec Fisherman on the gross are conservationists by nature/ability/reality - use/take the/from environment but ensure that in 100 years it is still sustainable, we are already way past that mark and are in regulation now preservationists. Same forced ideology as in duck hunting IMO.

cheers fnq

A pretty reserved response from you indeed FNQ .
But I do agree,that for all the reasons you mention we as rec fishers are indeed conservationists to a good degree purely because of circumstance.
Wind ,rain, bag limits,reef closures,no take species,long distances.
The role of conservationists are indeed thrust upon us by virtue of what is required to actually get out there to catch fish.

Scott

FNQCairns
18-09-2007, 09:09 PM
A pretty reserved response from you indeed FNQ .
But I do agree,that for all the reasons you mention we as rec fishers are indeed conservationists to a good degree purely because of circumstance.
Wind ,rain, bag limits,reef closures,no take species,long distances.
The role of conservationists are indeed thrust upon us by virtue of what is required to actually get out there to catch fish.

Scott

By Circumstance - absolutly! but by more than just the typical beliefs, basic ecology and the act of plucking so few of a number of any any fish per m2 of sea floor V time, drive through a plague of locusts and a person can comprehend only a tiny dint has been made that ecologicly speaking is easily filled..... and lucky for us too because if it were possible to damage or create an usustainable fishery of say the GBR to any degree, they would already have had a justifiable leg to stand on to criminalise the typical rec fisherman.

Instead they strive toward the preservation holy grail with subverson(sp) and undermining of reality with claims and precautions/regulations that have no basis.

Did I do better that time Scott?:)

cheers fnq

disorderly
18-09-2007, 09:29 PM
By Circumstance - absolutly! and lucky for us too because if it were possible to damage or create an usustainable fishery of say the GBR to any degree, they would already have had a justifiable leg to stand on to criminalise the typical rec fisherman.

Instead they strive toward the preservation holy grail with subverson(sp) and undermining of reality with claims and precautions/regulations that have no basis.

Did I do better that time Scott?:)

cheers fnq

I agree entirely,mate.
If it were actually easy to catch fish up here I really dont think we would be allowed to do so.
Perhaps the burdens(some of which we have previously mentioned) we have to overcome in order to just get out to the reef are the only stumbling blocks to actually closing rec fishers out from the reef entirely.
Scary thought but if the current regulations keep the greenies happy for the time being than its OK by me.

Scott

gone_fishing
28-09-2007, 07:20 PM
great thread
i think looking after our enviroment is important but also believe areas should be open to everyone and be user friendly to draw poeple to there recreational benifits
as a example i live near a park that is quite large and was very popular and the council has planted spiky plant along the forshore so making access to the water very difficult now the park has less poeple using it dont get get the lodgic

Lovey80
28-09-2007, 08:07 PM
Chris..how can you be a "conservational fisher and hunter"..do u use rubber hooks and bullets or something. I cannot see how you can say that.

Easy Pinhead easy, obviously your personal definition of conservationist is different to mine but I'll give it a go.

When hunting my primary target is ferral animals only or ones that are not native so to speak. So all of the time Pigs, cats, foxes, rabbits, dogs, goats are fair game.

If in an area there is massive numbers of a native animal (say Roos) ill happily cull a few of them but as a general rule native species are off the scope. Most of the area's I shoot don't often have a problem with the native stuff so ferral is the main target.

By me hunting and targeting ferral animals I am relieving pressure on the local area that would not have been so if they had not been introduced in the first place.

On the fishing side of things I couldn't give two hoots if someone takes 50 bream in a session (too many bream to count) because it's their right by law. I genuinely beleive bag/size limmits are working and they are constantly under reveiw to maintain our recreation, but I don't take fish home just because it's legal either, If i want a feed of a species i'll take some home if not they go back. If your not breaking the law I don't give a crap if i did I'd write a letter to fisheries asking them to change the law.

Hope that helps

Cheers Chris

nigelr
29-09-2007, 05:23 PM
Lovey 80 wrote - : On the fishing side of things I couldn't give two hoots if someone takes 50 bream in a session

Imagine having to clean and fillet 50 bream.:o
Now thats keen.........::)

Lovey80
30-09-2007, 12:20 AM
Lovey 80 wrote - : On the fishing side of things I couldn't give two hoots if someone takes 50 bream in a session

Imagine having to clean and fillet 50 bream.:o
Now thats keen.........::)

LOL Nigelr not my kettle of fish (pardon the pun) but some guys do have massive hauls of bream and as long as they don't get wasted it doesnt bother me a bit.

Cheers Chris

shayned
30-09-2007, 03:41 PM
Guys I haven't bothered even reading the thread before posting, having read some of your other responses in the recent past, and suspecting your motivation relates to your working career. That said I'm happy to be shot down in flames if I'm wrong.
Personally I'm part of the lunitic fringe that enjoys going bush, yes actually getting in amongst nature and enjoying what we have available in this great land of ours. If I had to label myself I would call myself a Brownie cause this greenie crap just makes my blood boil and lets face it this is a big brown land.
Tell you what guys, the moment I get a big roll out from the green party to a clean up or a kids fishing clinic I may change my tune. Except my experience to date is that these freaking hippy #anks are all great at making noise but when the time comes to show up and do some hard work which will make a difference at a local level they are no where to be seen.

Tell you what just for the hell of it, Pine Rivers Council is organising the annual pine river clean up very shortly. I will draft a letter and send it to every green group I can find on the net and lets see what sort of response we get. I know the fishos will show up, lets see how many of these committed eco fighters show and get their hands dirty as well.

Chas & Clarry
30-09-2007, 04:04 PM
What are the details of the cleanup Shayned (when where etc)
C&C

shayned
01-10-2007, 10:21 AM
River Clean
Sat 13th October
8am - 11am
3 meet points are as follows;
Leis Park Boat Ramp
Bob Bell Park Boat Ramp
Dohles Rocks Boat Ramp
Council Contact Graeme Ferguson on 3480 6643

All safety equip provided.