Illegal fishermen get shot at

[Nic]

Just read this on the Courier-Mail site, thought it was interesting:

THE Australian navy opened fire on an illegal fishing boat after it tried to ram a patrol boat and its crew threw machetes at sailors, Defence Minister Brendan Nelson said today.
Dr Nelson said the incident occurred in northern waters in the last month when the large, steel-hulled foreign fishing boat attempted to ram a patrolling naval vessel and refused to leave Australian waters. "Missiles were thrown, including machetes, at Australian sailors and the chief of defence phoned me and asked me if they could undertake direct fire and I said 'yes they most certainly can'," Dr Nelson told reporters today.
The West Australian newspaper reported today the navy had fired a short burst from a mounted gun, hitting an Indonesian vessel during a pursuit about a month ago.
The vessel had escaped to international waters after the incident, in which the navy had employed tough new rules of engagement aimed at driving illegal fishermen and people smugglers out of Australian waters, the newspaper reported.
(More at http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,22287569-952,00.html)

[ffejsmada]

Firing a volley of shots from a mounted gun's no good, they should be hitting the bas!ard$ with missiles or torpedoes!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sink the boat and feed the illegals to the sharks!;D

[SeaHunt]

They should have kept shooting until it sunk.

[Tailortaker]

Yep, sink them and none of this bringin them back to Aus for a holiday!
________
Colorado dispensary (http://colorado.dispensaries.org/)

[snasman]

HooRay!!! its a start guys ,for years political red tape has been involved with this type of decision,preventing the use of fire power except in extreme cases, its about time IMO, that some one had the balls to give the go a head to open fire on these theving bastards,weve got millions of dollars tied up in new boats just for this purpouse so its great to hear that they are finaly allowed to use them to some of the capabilitys they were built for ,cheers Snas

[gunna]

Pity they let them back into International waters. The fisherman got the last laugh.

[sharkymark2]

Skipper I was with up in the Gulf with, pinged a few shots off a metal hull trawler in the gulf some years ago. There were 24 pair trawlers raping the sea up there. They towed a 100M net for 4 hours and took everything from mackerel to scallops. What a joke. Claim to honour God but were thieves in our back yard.

[Little grey men]

Far too soft...
What would happen if we all jumped in a crappy old fishing boat and motored on over to indonesia and started ramming Indonesian patrol boats..and throwing knives at them. We'd be sunk to the bottom and their Captain would get a big ol medal. In this counrty I'm sure there will be inquiries and other such time wasting exercises, because our blokes fired a few rounds at them.
Phone calls had to be made to seek permission to defend themselves for crying out loud.
It's little wonder they still come into our waters...BECAUSE NOT ENOUGH IS DONE TO DETER THEM...

That'll do me for a while..I think I'll have a cuppa tea and a lie down now.

[rando]

They should have made it look like Swiss cheese. Then the message will get through, when they dock, all shot to pieces.

[Hot_Snappa]

Its so typically pissweak of how this country allows everyone else to walk all over us!
When they do actually catch some of these illegal fishos, they are put up in conditions that are not exactly tough, until such time as they are escorted back to their country on a commercial flight. That really shows them doesn't it!!
We must be an absolute laughing stock to some of these countries.
Wake up Australia and get tough!

That my 2 bobs worth.

Dave

[cormorant]

They probably do it as they know the patrol boat will be on shore for 3 months filling out the paperwork for throwing a small amount of lead into the water while they get 3 monhs fishing in.

Imagine having to phone home to ask if they can chase / fire at them what a joke and just shows how political our laws are- pathetic. Detain shoot and ask later and let the pollies sort out politics as that's there job. Protecting our fisheries and borders is the Navy's job so let themjust do it with force if required.

Just keep the video running , ask them to abandon ship, board ship , record basic illegal catch then sink it. Pick them up and give them all some drug laden hand luggage (maybe a boogy board) then off to country of origin for their drug laws to deal with them.

We have done international boat deliveries and reported illegal boats fishing that we saw- can't believe how close they get to Aussie shore.

[wadeo]

G'day Nicole great find.We should sink them first then ask questions later i rekon. they don't seem to learn and i think we should be stepping up security and harsher penalties for these suckers. As a few have already said under no circumstances should they be brought back to australia. Let em go down with there ship.

[4x4frog]

I'm all for the treat them the way we'd be treated if we did the same over where they sailed from. A boat load of caucasians would never get out alive if they tried to motor through Indo' waters or anywhere in that area for that matter so why should we show such leanency toward them if there is un-deniable evidence they are pillaging our territories?

[Dirtysanchez]

The story said the illegal fishermen threw machete's etc at the naval boys, in my opinion that constitutes enough of a case to use lethal force in retaliation, or in simple terms, blast them out of the water into small pieces.

[PinHead]

and while we're at it..how about we shoot every bugger that keeps an undersize fish or crab...or steals from crab pots...that will solve a lot of problems

[breamnut]

doesnt matter the cant come and rape aussie waters.
sink there boat,deport them and if they ever get caught again in aus the get put away

[cbruh1]

Sounds like an idea for next weeks episode of Sea Patrol.:)

Good on them for shooting. They should have sunk them but, pitty they got away.

[mickstar001]

Yeah, tend to agree with a few of the comments here about sinking the vessel, however tow it to moreton bay first, before sinking, we may well need some fishing areas in the very near future, and best of all it would be mostly funded by indonesians - great!

Mickstar

[turtleshead]

Did they hit the illegals ?
They must have been close if they were throwing machettes.
How come they Didnt mow them down, Wouldnt think it would be that hard to hit a steel hulled boat with an automatic mounted machine gun.

[tunaticer]

They coulda taken the ship and towed it down here as a green zone alternative in moreton bay

Jack.

[Poodroo]

I think they should welcome the illegal fishing boats into Australian waters and then make them watch us convert their boats into an artificial reef to provide our reef dwellers with more homes to keep our fish stocks prolific.

Poodroo

[PinHead]

Did they hit the illegals ?
They must have been close if they were throwing machettes.
How come they Didnt mow them down, Wouldnt think it would be that hard to hit a steel hulled boat with an automatic mounted machine gun.

it would be rather easy but...the crews are obviously well trained and are from a civilised nation where we do not condone wanton killing unlike some keyboard warriors.

[Foxy4]

Good to hear about it...

Now all the need to do is practice more so the next time they will get hit right on target in the bullseye. If you know what i mean.

[disorderly]

and while we're at it..how about we shoot every bugger that keeps an undersize fish or crab...or steals from crab pots...that will solve a lot of problems

Why stop there pinhead?
What about arabs,homo's,and indian doctors!
Let's show a good old fashioned dose of aussie spirit and shoot em allhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/tongue.gif

Seriously guys what sort of country are we creating for our kids and grandkids.
I certainly would not be proud to be an aussie for blowing up a bunch of blokes(most likely trying to support their families) while the actual kingpins are reaping the profits from afar.
Sure I hate it (illegal fishing)but lets keep it in perspective here.

Scott

[turtleshead]

it would be rather easy but...the crews are obviously well trained and are from a civilised nation where we do not condone wanton killing unlike some keyboard warriors.

They had the go ahead from higher up to start shooting , they did.
Instead of driving the boat into international waters again , they
should have sunk it with gunfire , made an example of them .
Maybe then they will think twice about illegal fishing in oz.
I dont condone killing, but they had permission to fire on them .

[Davemclean]

you wanna know summat, here in the UK, they aren't even stopped from enteing our waters, and some of out fish stocks (most notably bass) have become massivly depleted thanks to it, well done to having the balls to stop 'em I say

[1lastcast]

I know lots of people here say we should shoot and sink them but can we not kill anybody that would be bad .
I could use someone to bait my hooks and clean my fish and do some odd chores around my house ill make sure i feed and look after him .
I would even be willing to lend him out to my mates if they wanted
Dont you think that would be better than killing them ?

[Mtx]

Stories only say they returned to international waters. Did not say they returned on top of the water :)

[OISTA]

I can only say 1 thing

























I LOVE THE SMELL OF NAPALM IN THE MORNING

[Little grey men]

Why stop there pinhead?
What about arabs,homo's,and indian doctors!
Let's show a good old fashioned dose of aussie spirit and shoot em allhttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/tongue.gif

Seriously guys what sort of country are we creating for our kids and grandkids.
I certainly would not be proud to be an aussie for blowing up a bunch of blokes(most likely trying to support their families) while the actual kingpins are reaping the profits from afar.
Sure I hate it (illegal fishing)but lets keep it in perspective here.

Scott

I think that people are just frustrated, hence the tough talk...but seriously people do get very annoyed that this goes on in our own back yard.
It's all very easy to take the soft approach, but, get too soft and you'll get squashed.
Their boat should have been taken. Do you think that they won't be trying again ??
Some people are just into protecting what belongs to them I guess.

[Blaster Bretty]

Absolutley disgraceful that an armoured patrol vessel deployed to protect aussie water's has to ring some stupid prick thats paid way too much to ask " um excuse me sir but there are some bloke's out here trying to kill us,,do you mind if we shoot at them to try and scare them away" the overpaid dummy then probably said... "um yes but dont hit them for crying out loud,,i dont want that on my record but if one of you should get killed that will be ok" I personally cant understand why this sort of pecking order exist's in the navy/defence force,,,the guy's were under attack and should have seized the damm boat and then rang the boss!!!! Agree???

Bretty

[disorderly]

I think that people are just frustrated, hence the tough talk...but seriously people do get very annoyed that this goes on in our own back yard.
It's all very easy to take the soft approach, but, get too soft and you'll get squashed.
Their boat should have been taken. Do you think that they won't be trying again ??
Some people are just into protecting what belongs to them I guess.

My opinion is that the boat should have been seized in such a fashion as to cause minimal loss of life.
The captured criminals charged and put on trial and sentenced under our laws.
The boat,contents and fish to be used as fit by our authorities.

If the might of our defence force cant disable a fishing boat without actually blowing it up and killing all on board then I would suggest we quickly develop some appropriate techniques to do so as we all know its going to happen again and again.

As for those who use the argument that we would be shot if we did it to them(illegally fished in Indo waters) so we should adopt the same approach,well that little furry animal called a Lemming comes to mind,
Surely we dont need to follow other counties over the cliff and into the moral abyss.

Scott

[Argle]

Sink the mongrels I say, we might be banned from fishing the Bay to "protect" the fish stocks but these clowns are basically encouraged by the government to come rape our waters bare. I dont blame the Navy because most of the sailors would be only too happy to send these pirates to the bottom, but its the red tape and all the bleeding hearts that say "oh no no just shoo them away that will work" NOT!

Cheers and beers
Scott

[Little grey men]

My opinion is that the boat should have been seized in such a fashion as to cause minimal loss of life.
The captured criminals charged and put on trial and sentenced under our laws.
The boat,contents and fish to be used as fit by our authorities.

If the might of our defence force cant disable a fishing boat without actually blowing it up and killing all on board then I would suggest we quickly develop some appropriate techniques to do so as we all know its going to happen again and again.

As for those who use the argument that we would be shot if we did it to them(illegally fished in Indo waters) so we should adopt the same approach,well that little furry animal called a Lemming comes to mind,
Surely we dont need to follow other counties over the cliff and into the moral abyss.

Scott

Scott
I agree that loss of life or even sinking the boat would be over the top.
The comment about "if we did that to them" was to illustrate that our justice is perhaps a little too watered down.
I didn't mention shooting anyone ...I choose my words carefully as I know that these issues can be quite sensitive.
I'm sure that when people type about blowing them out of the water and so forth that they really are just flippant comments.
But in saying all that I think that our system of justice still needs to "grow a pair"

[Eagle]

These foreign scumbags should definitely be sunk by our navy. We are not to wait for them to fire on us or throw weapons at us. When they are in our waters, we must clear them out with supreme deadly force. We must NEVER be seen as a paper tiger similar to how the USA is seen throughout the world. As for breaking contact with the scum when they reach International waters, what a joke! Pursue them and sink them. Do you know that Australia has NEVER surrendered a ship to the enemy, not ever. We have fought and won or fought and lost but never have we surrendered. We must take a stand for our wonderful nation and to hell with International waters around our lands. I just wish the scum were within reach of my own boat. I certainly wouldnt be making phone calls for permission to draw fire upon them. If I had the opputunity to engage with my boat, these foreign scum wouldn't know what hit them! I have not forgotten when a 747 had to make a forced landing in Indonesia after the engines filled with dust from a volcano. Permission to land following a mayday call was refused. The 747 landed and EVERYBODY was flung in jail being arrested as spies or whatever they could charge them with. They were kept there for some weeks. Sink all their boats and no free trips back and no holidays in detention.
Eagle
Very proudly Australian

[Nowhere Bob]

Well, after reading the responses here, I'm glad mob rule is out. In fact I'm a little worried - even taking into account the '3rd can bravado' factor.

I really don't think killing a handful of fishermen is going to discourage anything. Instead it will just encourage the 'what have we got to lose' attitude, and escalate the situation. Pirates? If the best they can do is throw a cleaver at the navy, then I dont think the HMAS whateversheis or her crew are at any kind of risk. A quick squirt from a steyer over-head is more than enough to convince the master & crew that the game is up.

Have a squizzz at the bigger picture. From my understanding there are two distinct types of unlawful international fishing going on.
A: The big boys with Panamanian reg ships, spannish skippers, Japanese fishing masters and filipino crew
B: The little boys in POS timber vessels from our near northern neighbours.
The break point seems to be is there refreigerationon board ?

I think our response should be proportional to the kind of fishing found.

Type A: Sieze vessel, detain crew, prosecute & return to country of origin when jail time complete. Sell or destroy vessel.
Also go after the "procurers" in the international court system. The Patagonian Toothfish capers have proven that these organisations can afford to lose a ship, there needs to be bigger penalties and systems in place to make it unviable for the fishing to continue.
While there is $ to be made, unprincipled people will pursue it. See the Heroin trade - no one could argue they are 'bringing happiness to people' - it's just the servicing of a market. Make it unprofitable, and it will stop. Death penalties and life inprisonment of the mules doesn't even slow the trade down.

Type B: Sieze vessel, detain crew, prosecute & return to country of origin when jail time complete. Destroy vessel.

I know that the red necks will howl "Jail is like a holiday camp to these guys," and "they get better medical care in jail than at home." So it bloody should be. Just beacause people come from a 3rd world country- shouldn't mean that we treat them differently to any other prisoner.
We, as a nation, are judged by others and should judge ourselves, by the way we treat the most vulnerable people. Thats why I [and other 'bleeding hearts'] are so disgusted by the way we treat our mentally ill, disabled, elderly & destitute. I say more $ into healthcare and less into APEC, guided missile destroyers & 2nd hand Abrhams tanks.

Lets have more compassion & understanding, less blowing people up & making orphans that will grow up to hate us.

[1lastcast]

Lets just stop fishing our own waters and start fishing theres ( if theres any fish left there ) and see how long it takes for one of our fishing boats to get shot to the shithouse .

We should get off our arse and do something about it and if it takes for us to sink one of thier vesells then so be it .

I think we do need to send some sort of message that we are serious about protecting our fish stocks.

Shooting over thier bow DOES NOT SEEM TO BE DOING THE TRICK

[ffejsmada]

there needs to be bigger penalties and systems in place to make it unviable for the fishing to continue.


You said it Bob!!!!

Take the illegals off the boat, sink it at sea there and then, and send them back on the FIRST available flight.
Don't put them in detention here at all as they would feel like royalty in our detention centres, where life for them would be just dandy. 3 meals a day, good fresh water, clean latrines, a mattress and pillow to sleep on, need I go on!
Never know, they might even get a weekly allowance for when they get out of detention.
Stuff 'em, sink their boat, send em straight home!

[Hot_Snappa]

Lets just stop fishing our own waters and start fishing theres

Thats exactly why they are fishing our waters Monostretcho .........cause there ain't none left in theirs!!!

[breamnut]

killing is prob to far over the top but sinking or distroying there boat isnt!

[Poseidon]

How lucky we are to live in a country where the defence force still respects the decisions made by our elected representatives and seeks the appropriate approval based upon the threat levels that they are placed under. Don't imagine that a phone call is needed if they came under a more serious threat.

What is the alternative? Have the Captain of the ship make the decision then be hung out to dry over a diplomatic disaster?

After all, I am sure our Navy has the smarts about them to not let a few sticks and stones spoil there day.

There is a system to deal with illegal fishing, detain the vessel and crew, put them before the court system and allow the process to take over. Wild West justice is not something that this nation needs to subscribe to.

[PinHead]

These foreign scumbags should definitely be sunk by our navy. We are not to wait for them to fire on us or throw weapons at us. When they are in our waters, we must clear them out with supreme deadly force. We must NEVER be seen as a paper tiger similar to how the USA is seen throughout the world. As for breaking contact with the scum when they reach International waters, what a joke! Pursue them and sink them. Do you know that Australia has NEVER surrendered a ship to the enemy, not ever. We have fought and won or fought and lost but never have we surrendered. We must take a stand for our wonderful nation and to hell with International waters around our lands. I just wish the scum were within reach of my own boat. I certainly wouldnt be making phone calls for permission to draw fire upon them. If I had the opputunity to engage with my boat, these foreign scum wouldn't know what hit them! I have not forgotten when a 747 had to make a forced landing in Indonesia after the engines filled with dust from a volcano. Permission to land following a mayday call was refused. The 747 landed and EVERYBODY was flung in jail being arrested as spies or whatever they could charge them with. They were kept there for some weeks. Sink all their boats and no free trips back and no holidays in detention.
Eagle
Very proudly Australian


typical keyboard warrior response..blow em away..forget international waters...and then we would be just like them..at their level. You can go north with your boat and look for them and engage them..the outcome could be rather interesting.
Arrest them...send them home and do what we want with the boats and at all times retain our dignity in doing so,

[theclick]

It sounds a bit harsh to shoot at them, because in alot of cases they probably didnt even know they were in our waters (cant say this for sure) but we definately need some strong deterants

[manchild]

These foreign scumbags should definitely be sunk by our navy. We are not to wait for them to fire on us or throw weapons at us. When they are in our waters, we must clear them out with supreme deadly force. We must NEVER be seen as a paper tiger similar to how the USA is seen throughout the world. As for breaking contact with the scum when they reach International waters, what a joke! Pursue them and sink them. Do you know that Australia has NEVER surrendered a ship to the enemy, not ever. We have fought and won or fought and lost but never have we surrendered. We must take a stand for our wonderful nation and to hell with International waters around our lands. I just wish the scum were within reach of my own boat. I certainly wouldnt be making phone calls for permission to draw fire upon them. If I had the opputunity to engage with my boat, these foreign scum wouldn't know what hit them! I have not forgotten when a 747 had to make a forced landing in Indonesia after the engines filled with dust from a volcano. Permission to land following a mayday call was refused. The 747 landed and EVERYBODY was flung in jail being arrested as spies or whatever they could charge them with. They were kept there for some weeks. Sink all their boats and no free trips back and no holidays in detention.
Eagle
Very proudly Australian
Mate i understand your frustration ,But the navy achieved what they sent to do which is get them out of our waters.Navy personel are not there to kill, maime or harm people .To put them in such situation would be unfair to the crew.If you would have served in any armed forces you would understand .Take their wessels and deport them as soon as possible.
George

[roz]

It's a frustrating situation, however I agree with Greg, no need to get down on their level.

I do believe they should have been taken into custody, boat & crew.

Doing this sends a strong message to others who might follow.

Allowing them to leave unpunished is not a good idea IMO.

[Brett1907]

I agree with taking them and their boat into custody, but the crew of the fishing vessel had already shown that they were willing to defend their ship with deadly force! Why should we put our NAVY personnel into the deadly situation of storming a boat of armoured and aggresive individuals. They didn't know how many were on the boat to defend it and what other weapons were on board.

Attempting to take the boat could quite likely have resulted in the injury or even death of one of our own. Have those crying the soft option thought of these consequences? I feel the situation should have been managed in almost the same way as it was, but the ship should have been sunk and the crew rescued from the water and thrown in jail.

To say the fishermen didn't know they were in our waters is totally naive.

To say sinking the boat would only promote the 'what have we got to lose' mindset... they were throwing machetes at our NAVY! That mindset is already there.

We should aproach these incidents with great care, ensuring the safety of our sailors first and foremost, then the safety of those in the other vessels. If they attack us in our own waters then they are inviting retaliation.

Brett

[gleeeza]

I smell an election beat up coming on !!!! Over you go kiddies.

These incidents happen on a regular basis and receive no media coverage. "Missiles", the way it is worded conjurs up thoughts of stingers or grenade launchers, not hand propelled objects within arms reach of desperate people trying to earn a quid the only way they know how.

We have far too much coastline to patrol successfully but we do our best to with the resources allocated but have far too soft an approach IMO. The ones we need to actually catch buy up unseaworthy vessels and contract poor crews to head out and dont come back until you are chockers or your family will pay !!There are no headlines in that sort of a approach though.

When we do get hold of a crew the vessel and the catch is usually destroyed(if they don't throw it overboard first) and the crew sent to detention centers to await charging and eventually deportation, except that is for the suspected under age crew who are sent immediately back to their country of origin. This is determined by x-raying their wrists to determine if they are under 13 yo. A surprising amount of these pirates who rape our seas are actually children making up the crew numbers to repay debts incurred by their parents or siblings for other apprehended vessels not returning with their spoils.

Of course there are other countries far better equipped and well aware of our patrol capabilities who need to be sent straight to the bottom if they don't like our rules but with their tecnology they are in and out before we can get within cooee of em.

Call me before you engage!!! what a load of bullshit, the money spent training these people I am sure prepares them with the neccessary skills to make that call on their own. Just pollies grabbing headlines by trying to look tough. Piss weak IMO.

Gleeeza

[Nowhere Bob]

1 I support our service people. I believe that they are up there with the most professional, best trained, & equipped out there. The term 'punch above their weight' springs to mind.

2 Given that they have the gear & training, a POC timber Indon Illeagle fishing vessel poses no real threat to the naval vessel or crew. Ooh they are throwing machetes & molotov cocktail - we have a 40mm Bofors - we win. You need to accept the difference between life threatening & inconveniant. There are many ways to systematically imobilize & damage such a vessel without putting Naval officers @ risk. It requires a little patience, negotiation & lateral thinking. Talents I know our naval officers have. Yes it eventually requires boarding, but everytime the navy has wanted to board, they have eventually boarded - with no injuries.

3. "Sending a message" just doesn't work, if it did we wouldn't still have a problem. Finacial imperitive is the only effective tool available to us. To the village level little boats, losing the boat is a major loss to the community. Unfortunately it has debt issues that make the problem more complicated. Big problems never have simple answers.

As a side bar, I have spoken to a serving Naval Officer, & customs officers who have dealt with FFV's. The RAN said that these boats are effectively impossible to sink. The timber just won't [expletive deleted] sink. After taking the FFV crew onto the HAMS Whateversheis, they made the decision that the boat would not survive towing, so the call was made to sink it. They pumped enough lead into it to "sink the Queen Mary," enough to actually cut out the engine & gearbox. Still it wouldn't sink. Eventually they steamed off leaving a slick of broken timber.
So the calls to "sink the B#stards" is just beer talk.

[shaman]

We should invade Indo and seek out wmd's, then hang their leader and maybe hang out over there for a few years shooting the joint up chasing locals and putting our young service peoples lives at risk................. Is that wrong????

[BigE]

so if i'm fishing in a green zone & there is no mobile phone coverage ..... and i'm prepared to throw my bait knife at em ... she's all apples......... i think i'm begining to like the soft approach. sorry could not resist (unlike the illegals) bit of a kick in the teeth when someone from another country gets a better deal than a citizen

E

[Lovey80]

[quote=Brett1907;672518]I agree with taking them and their boat into custody, but the crew of the fishing vessel had already shown that they were willing to defend their ship with deadly force! Why should we put our NAVY personnel into the deadly situation of storming a boat of armoured and aggresive individuals. They didn't know how many were on the boat to defend it and what other weapons were on board.

Attempting to take the boat could quite likely have resulted in the injury or even death of one of our own. Have those crying the soft option thought of these consequences? I feel the situation should have been managed in almost the same way as it was, but the ship should have been sunk and the crew rescued from the water and thrown in jail.

Sorry Brett there was a few i wanted to quote but yours was the last that fit the bill.

WHY? Because they Bloody love it!! It's exactly what gets them up in the morning!

Trust me Army and Navy guys don't spend time training to do exactly this then to have the opportunity arise then to sit on their hands. It's what Operation Relex is for.

As for the sinking option.........it has been done before in the recent past. The illegals were forced to stand on deck of the Aussie ship and watch as their boat was burnt to the water. Russ81 im fairly sure has done one of the operations so he may be able to give some more accurate insight or a first hand account but unsure.

As for the shoot them option...... under our Rules of Engagement (ROE) once the machette was thrown the offender was no longer a threat. Sounds very very strange but I heard stories from the early days of Timor where individuals would throw a grenade then turn their backs and run. To legally shoot at the time the shot had to be fired whilst the offender was in the throwing action. I'm fairly sure the ROE have been changed since.

Cheers Chris

[Lovey80]

so if i'm fishing in a green zone & there is no mobile phone coverage ..... and i'm prepared to throw my bait knife at em ... she's all apples......... i think i'm begining to like the soft approach. sorry could not resist (unlike the illegals) bit of a kick in the teeth when someone from another country gets a better deal than a citizen

E

As long as you make it out of the green zone before they board you;D ;D ;)

Cheers Chris

[AutoPilot]

WHY LET THEM GO !!!!!!!!!
Haul them over the coals.....Or sink their boat then & there..
Another ......"they wont do nothing attitude" from the thieving #%@!$%#^&

Cheers
Scott

[russ81]

Hows it going guys
As LOVEY 80 mentioned i have been part of the operation designed to intercept illegal boat people and illegal fishing However Its not my position to divulge any information
Russ

[saurian]

About bloody time, shoot the motors out , but what will they shoot when the crew start sitting at the stern ??????
Ta

[thargor]

Just remember theres often kids on these foreign boats. I dont want these illegal fishers in our waters either but Im not in a position to be blowing kids away.

Best to disable it in some way without killing people.

[el_carpo]

Not my place to comment as I'm not Australian so I won't. I found a site that has some information about this issue. Australian gov. (customs services) Hopefully, I inserted the link properly. It should go to "Output 4." I won't comment on Iraq either.

http://www.customs.gov.au/webdata/minisites/annualReport0506/performance/output4/implementation-of-government-initiatives.html

It's quite a problem. It would be good if the Indonesian government would do something about it. I wonder if there is a way to make them want to?

[tunaticer]

Are there any offshore oil rigs nearing their end of use?? For a detention centre they have everything needed to house these illegals until the courts have dealt with them. Self contained and almost escape proof and they can continue doing what they do best in order to survive.... steal our fish to eat.

All vessels seized should be towed to the nearest port and stripped of contaminants and then sunk in suitable locations to create a fishing and dive industry for the local area. It would generate income for at least the next 30 years even if they are timber boats, look at how many 100 yr old timber wrecks are still viewable around Aus even now.

We need a fast tracking system for these offenders and illegal immigrants. It is pointless keeping them here for longer that the minimum neccessary time at our costs. Illegal immigrants need only one bad mark against their name and bang go back home fella.

I'm tired as hell of this softly softly approach.

Australia is one of the easiest countries to immigrate to if you go through the channels the best way for your circumstances. We need immigrants to keep our society growing and moving forward to be globally competitive and strong. We also need Australians overall to be more determined to make things work both as a country and as individuals. There are too many that are simply prepared to catch a ride without paddling themselves i think.

Jack.

[craig51063]

i agree with hot snapper !!!!! at the very least these ships SHOULD be sunk !!!! no questions just sink ships .whats next Japanes whaling ships ???
SINK THEM ALL
LIE LOUD ENOUGH AND FOR LONG ENOUGH AND EVENUALLY THE MASSES WILL BELEIVE YOU

[manchild]

What about a preemptive nuclear strike at the village where they came from?Get real ,they left our waters which was the objective and thats that.
George

[disorderly]

What about a preemptive nuclear strike at the village where they came from?Get real ,they left our waters which was the objective and thats that.
George

lol George.
I cant beleive the amount of ausfishers here that would be willing to take responsibility for the deaths of the fathers of children in another country.
But then again they wouldn't.Most would expect the "government"to grow some balls and take credit!
For christ sake we are talking about FISH here.Is it really worth killing or maiming other humans over.(Oh, I forgot,they threw a machete at the mighty Australian Navy,didnt they!)
I dont see myself as a bleeding heart at all but I seriously cant fathom that anybody would even contemplate killing other humans over a few fish.
Man,what a isolated,bigoted and totally intolerant nation we are forging for our kids!
Makes me a bit sad to read so many of the posted responses.
I can totally understand the frustration and anger at the illegal exploitation of our precious fishery resources but there has to be a better way to handle it, surely,than blowing up or killing them.
But then again its real easy to be a hero when you are not the one pulling the trigger...

Scott.

[loophole]

For christ sake we are talking about FISH here.Is it really worth killing or maiming other humans over.(Oh, I forgot,they threw a machete at the mighty Australian Navy,didnt they!)
I dont see myself as a bleeding heart at all but I seriously cant fathom that anybody would even contemplate killing other humans over a few fish.


disorderly its not just a few fish ITS A FEW TONS OF FISH!
its not just a few boats doing this ITS A COULPE OF HUNDRED BOATS DOING THIS EVERY YEAR!
we as a Nation cant let this happen!

[Timfishin4fun]

I say let them go back into international waters.








Then BOOM blow the f@#$ers up by another international ship (that we might own). Best dam policy the gov could have on our waters.

[disorderly]

disorderly its not just a few fish ITS A FEW TONS OF FISH!
its not just a few boats doing this ITS A COULPE OF HUNDRED BOATS DOING THIS EVERY YEAR!
we as a Nation cant let this happen!

loophole,I really do understand,but what you seem to insinuate is that if it were just a few boats then it would not be such a big drama.
Its the fact that there are so many doing it that is the problem.
But I still cant grasp the concept of killing them just because they are fishing in our waters.(should we also do the same to all those who have been caught fishing in our own green zones?Plenty of our own to blow up first)
Mate its just so easy for us just to sit here on the putor and say how our gov't should blow up the illegal fishers,iraquis,afgans and anybody we dont like or see as a threat.
But the reality is so much different!
I dont know much about the men and women of our armed forces,but I would not like to have to saddle them with the responsibility of having to maim and kill fisherman for being on the wrong side of an imaginary line.

Scott

[dogsbody]

Imagine living on the bones of your ars your kids live in squaller conditions. Then you get word that you could make some money (read bugger all) with relatively no consequence to do some fishing. What would you do? And then you got blown to bits as some would suggest. Well done Australia well done.

Lets leave the cowboy attitude where it came from.



Dave.

[loophole]

loophole,I really do understand,but what you seem to insinuate is that if it were just a few boats then it would not be such a big drama.
Its the fact that there are so many doing it that is the problem.
But I still cant grasp the concept of killing them just because they are fishing in our waters.(should we also do the same to all those who have been caught fishing in our own green zones?Plenty of our own to blow up first)
Mate its just so easy for us just to sit here on the putor and say how our gov't should blow up the illegal fishers,iraquis,afgans and anybody we dont like or see as a threat.
But the reality is so much different!
I dont know much about the men and women of our armed forces,but I would not like to have to saddle them with the responsibility of having to maim and kill fisherman for being on the wrong side of an imaginary line.

Scott

I dont belive in killing them Scott and neither does the NAVY if they did they would be firing that bow mounted machine gun into the cabin of the boat but
in stead they fire a couple of bursts in front of the bow of their boats as a warning

[wombat 100]

The rules of engagement to open fire are a joke and the Indo's know that.

The rules aren't new they were enforce back in Vietnam. Ring in first to see if there are any friendlies in the area, in the meantime you are taking hostile fire while trying to dig a hole to take cover in with your dog tags . They were the days.

The Skipper will be still filling in the paper work to account for the ammo and taking statements form all those involved . I do hope they picked up the empties and sent down divers to pick up the spent projectiles from the sea floor otherwise the greenies will have a field day and it could cause an international incident which is likely to be bigger than having a body count.

[84mick]

I agree with taking them and their boat into custody, but the crew of the fishing vessel had already shown that they were willing to defend their ship with deadly force! Why should we put our NAVY personnel into the deadly situation of storming a boat of armoured and aggresive individuals. They didn't know how many were on the boat to defend it and what other weapons were on board.

Attempting to take the boat could quite likely have resulted in the injury or even death of one of our own. Have those crying the soft option thought of these consequences? I feel the situation should have been managed in almost the same way as it was, but the ship should have been sunk and the crew rescued from the water and thrown in jail.

To say the fishermen didn't know they were in our waters is totally naive.

To say sinking the boat would only promote the 'what have we got to lose' mindset... they were throwing machetes at our NAVY! That mindset is already there.

We should aproach these incidents with great care, ensuring the safety of our sailors first and foremost, then the safety of those in the other vessels. If they attack us in our own waters then they are inviting retaliation.

Brett

Brett: you took the words out of my mouth!
What would happen I was throwing machetes at a policeman?...... Probably he would shoot me! I know I would!
I was in the army just over a year ago for 5 years and if I was out on patrol anywhere in the world and someone started throwing machetes at me and I didnt know how many of them was there or what other weapons they had i would have shot that person straight away! I would not put myself but more important my mates in danger no matter what.

Mick.

[Poseidon]

Having a machete thrown at you on land, whilst you are in another country is a whole lot different to throwing a machete at a Patrol Boat from a mile away, they may have even needed some binoculars to see the incoming machetes at terminal velocity.

As has been said earlier, it is really quite sad that we have people in the country that put serious issues into such simple terms.

Sure, I would be happier if these desperate people chose not to raid our fish stocks in such ways, however we still need to remember that we are the lucky ones who need not behave like Neanderthals and treat these people with some form of decency.

How lucky we are in this country, when the real issue for most of us is how we can finally get that PLASMA for the lounge room and could not for a moment understand how desperate life could be if you couldn’t feed your own children.

Let us get some perspective back into the community.

Regards Cameron

[Little grey men]

They may not have needed binoculars to see the boat as it was trying to ram them, as stated in the original post. That's the bit that would concern me.

[Far side]

I wonder if they would off us the same curtiousy if we were fishing in their waters
I doubt you would find the bodies
At least we take them on board house and feed and then return them to their countries

[Phoenix]

Great stuff. Good on the captain for holding his/her ground. I'd far rather see greater pressure on illegals rather than BS laws against rec fisho's.

Let's face it - the crew aren't paid to take all that ammo back to base....