bubbles big troubles

[tobig]

hi how do you guys get the bubbles out off your top coat or don't you get bubbles in the first place do i have to put on sealer first. i use a lighter to get the big ones out but still left with small ones

[jan]

Bubbles usually are inevitable and a pain in the backside. There are ways to minimise getting them in the first place. number one for me is to mix the epoxy slowly and evenly keeping my mixing tool (a cut off cable tie) on the bottom of the cup as I have found lifting it every time I swirl it around introduces more air bubbles. After mixing I let it sit for a minute or two and then blow off the bubbles on the surface with a straw. I then pour a bit of the epoxy onto a chinese container lid that has allfoil on it and swirl it around so there is a thin layer of epoxy all around. Again you can get rid of a lot of bubbles by blowing gently through a straw. Too hard and you "push" them back into the epoxy so gently as possible works best. I don't use a brush as this also introduced air bubbles. I use the same bit of cable tie to put my epoxy one the rod. One of the main reasons being that a brush tends to follow the pattern in the wrap so even after say 3-4 coats you will still have a wavy epoxy job because the brush still follows the curves from the coat before hand. The cable tie or spatula etc glides over the wrap evenly filling in as you move it along.
Temperature has a big part to play as well. Colder weather tends to make the mix "hard or stiff" and not as runny as say warmer weather so bubbles aren't released as easily from the epoxy. Another is putting the epoxy on too thickly, as again the bubbles can't be released as easily as say a very thin coat. This would have to be the biggest reason why bubbles are so visible, the thickness of the epoxy. If you have to take 5-6 coats of very thin layers to do the job then so be it because the results are soo much better than say 1-2 coats of thick layers. Thats another reason why some guides look like footballs because too much epoxy goes on and pools in the middle giving them the shape of footballs.
You have the heat part right but there are other easier ways than burning your fingers off. Some use hairdriers but I found if you make a mess like me then that just blows dirt/dust, fibres etc all around the room which will eventually settle on the rod. A couple of blokes I know use a butane torch help under the rod as it spins because the heat rises up and helps to make the epoxy runny thus releasing the air bubbles. Others try a couple of those small oil burner candles placed near the rod. If like me and you are forgetful or clumsy then a naked flame near the rod is not the best idea. I have a couple of heat reflector shields that I use for my frogs. I can put 150w heat globes in the them and place them over a rod as the reflectors, funnily enough, reflect the heat down towards the rod and I can leave them overnight while the rod is spinning knowing I probably wont burn the garage down.
Anyway I hope this helps as these are just some of the little things I do to reduce airbubbles and have a final product I am happy with. Why spend hours on a nice butt wrap only to have it spoilt by a bad epoxy job.
Cheers, Jan.

[DR]

another way to minimise bubbles is to stand part A & B bottles in ho water for a while, this heats it up & thins it to make measuring more accurate & mixing easier.
As Jan stated i then like to pour it onto an ice cream container lid & hit it over with a butane torch, this will thin it out & remove most bubbles, it's not really that important.
apply epoxy to guides. do whole rod & while spinning hit the actual epoxy by waving the flame off the torch over the guides, move reasonably quickly, something that will come with practice, as if you stop the epoxy can/will catch fire. ( not as bad as it sounds, if you do it once you will never do it again, it's that simple)
you will find that you can get the epoxy to the consistency of water & absolutely no bubbles.
the heat thins the epoxy & the pressure from the flame blows out the bubble, it wont blow bubbles into the epoxy as the fire eats the oxygen whereas a hair dryer will put bubbles in, do not bother with a hair dryer as it can cause more problems than it's worth.
Don't have the flame too strong, trial & error & in no time at all you will be surprised how easy it is to get a professional finish on your latest masterpiece.

this is my preferred method ..
cheers

[dogsbody]

I have used a heat gun and a hair dryer and had no probs with either. Just wave it back and forth.


Dave.

[BenatCoffs]

I heat the epoxy in tap hot water before mixing. Mix in a shot glass using the handle end of a stainless spoon. pour out onto a upturned glass jar and then blow over the surface through a drinking straw. The I apply the epoxy making a very thin coat, so thin that you can still see the thread showing through the surface in places.

Every few minutes I check over the rod and blow any bubbles with the straw. Should ok to leave after an hour.

24 hours later I do a second thin coat. As the threads have been fully sealed by the first coat they don't release any more air and you only need to worry about the introduced air, which can be blown out with the straw.

Works for me, YMMV.

As for sealer, I use Erskine Colour Preserver/Sealer on all non black/metallic threads. I find sealed threads release less air bubbles than non sealed - that is to be expected though!

After reading Phils post below I'll also add, I use Flexcoat too...

[Lucky_Phill]

I have been having great results with Flex Coat. I just stir the ### out the epoxy, ( sometimes I nuke the resin ) apply it liberally to the whole rod ( never use thread sealer ). I do get minimal bubbles so I just hit them with the Alcohol Torch and whaa- laa job done.

I did have lots of issues with other types of epoxy, though.

all IMO.

Phill

[tunaticer]

I find if you heat the separate parts prior to measuring out onto a pane of thick glass that is cold. This lets you mix the epoxy without bubbles. Let the epoxy sit for two mins to settle then apply to your rod with a good coat. The bubles will appear from within the threads and you can easily remove them with a soft blowtorch flame waved over them and then let it sit for 30 mins slowly rotating. Every 30 mins for the first 2 hours check for new bubbles and threat them the same.

Jack.

[roz]

I had also problems with bubbles, but since I changed from erskines to flex coat, I've noticed a seriously big difference in the clarity, Flex Coat being the superiour product by far.

Also pay more attention to mixing part A & B, I'm trying out different methods, one in particular might just do the trick...but I won't say until I'm positive.

Good luck.

r.

[wheezer]

epoxying used to be the thing i feared most about rodbuilding, as you only get one chance and it will make or break your new pride and joy (or someone elses that they'e paid you good money for!) but since i discovered the alcohol torch it has now become one of the quicker, easier aspects for me. i use flexcoat, tried a few other brands available in oz and flexcoat is the best by far for me. i don't care about mixing bubbles in, in fact i mix the crap out of it just to be sure both parts are well and truly mixed to ensure it goes off properly. so it is chock full of bubbles, looks like the head of a nice cold beer! then i pour it out onto an alfoil covered ceramic plate, hit it with the alcohol burner to release most bubbles and get it nice and runny. flexcoat doesn't mind heat, in fact sometimes mine catches on fire for a split second. at this stage there are still lots of tiny micro bubbles but it doesn't matter. then i use a brush to apply to wraps (tried the spatula thing hated it!) i make one quick pass applying a liberal amount only to the area around the guide feet. this is important as you must ensure the tunnels around the guide feet are completely filled with epoxy as this will improve strength and ensure no bubbles coming out later. after the first pass i go back to where i started and by then you should start to see epoxy creeping out the end of the wrap due to surface tension. then i do the second pass to finish epoxying the whole wrap and lifting off excess. again it doesn't matter about bubbles because this is where your best friend the alcohol torch comes in. i would not recommend butane based torches as butane burns at a very high heat, much higher than metho. this can cause all sorts of issues like melting the wrap or the paint off the blank. take your alcohol torch and sweep quickly across each wrap while turning the rod, with flame in direct contact with the epoxy. all the bubbles will disappear. its even easier to release bubbles from subsequent coats, due to there being a solid base of resin below. also if its a big rod or you are going a little slow and notice the epoxy thickening up, hit it with the torch again and will go nice and runny, albeit for a shorter period of time. sorry for the long reply but i hope it helps some of you you cringe at the thought of applying epoxy like i used to!

[tobig]

thanks a lot guys alot off things to try . whats a alcohol burner

[oldboot]

just a couple of late arriving tips for epoxy.

In one of my alternate interets is woodwork ..... in wood work there are a number of pouring epoxy products very closely related to the rod building epoxies..... in fact some are made by the same companies.

one critical point that the documentation with most of these products is strong on is the effect on both temperature and humidity on the workability of these materials.
in wood craft we lay large areas of this stuff so the problems are vastly greater.

so....... for best results you need moderate temperature and moderate humidity.
and the range is reasonably narrow.
I'm not real sure about the details of effects of humidity.
but temperature is very straight forward
too cold.... the stuff won't flow and the bubbles wont come out
tooo hot and the stuff is tooo runny and you cant get it to stay on the job and you cant achieve sufficient build.
I dont know the details of your product
but mine says less tha 50% RH and between 22 and 28C.

all the methods mentioned above are valid but having the right conditions... meaning everything is the correct temp is helpfull.

one other point is air comming out of the work.... like small bubles comming out of the bindings...... using a sealer certainly wouldnt be a waste.

cheers