Re-fueling your boat?? Beware

[dunmears]

A workmate was refueling his fibreglass boat at the local service station, at the same time as the station's underground tanks were being filled by a tanker. The tanker driver walked over to the workmate and gave him a dressing down as to the legalities of fueling his boat. He informed my friend in no uncertain terms that by law he was required to have an earth lead connected to the bowser and to the tank of his boat. I cannot see how you could connect a lead to an underfloor tank. Most fuel tanks would also have a rubber hose to the tank. I believe it is very dangerous to use a mobile phone whilst refueling and you are supposed to place a portable fuel tank on the ground when refueling but I have never heard about the earth lead?????????????

[marco]

A workmate was refueling his fibreglass boat at the local service station, at the same time as the station's underground tanks were being filled by a tanker. The tanker driver walked over to the workmate and gave him a dressing down as to the legalities of fueling his boat. He informed my friend in no uncertain terms that by law he was required to have an earth lead connected to the bowser and to the tank of his boat. I cannot see how you could connect a lead to an underfloor tank. Most fuel tanks would also have a rubber hose to the tank. I believe it is very dangerous to use a mobile phone whilst refueling and you are supposed to place a portable fuel tank on the ground when refueling but I have never heard about the earth lead?????????????

in a nutshell that is bullshit , tell your mate to tell that tanker driver to go jump .

there is a reason why they get called tanker ###### , unfortunately i'm one of them ;D

where was it and what company ?

[bayfisher]

This is a new one! You would think that their would be something written on a fuel bowser if this was the case. Sounds like rubbish.

Cheers Chris

[bastard]

When you fuel your boat up on the water there is an earth strap supplied and this is supposed to be earthed to your tank,ive never done this though.

[KAGEY1]

It Is Rubbish. Planes Have Grounding Wires When They Refuel Because They Build Up A Lot Of Static When They Fly. How You Would Get A Ground Wire To The Fuel Tank Underfloor Would Be Painful At Best. I Do Know That At My Local Fuel Station They Have Asked Motorists To Wait Whilr The Tanker Unloads, But It Seems To Be At The Disgression Of The Driver.

[Ausfish]

Where you at a BP?

This has been discussed a while ago and from memory there is a policy that covers this by one of the fuel companies and I think it was BP.

Nothing wrong with using a mobile phone near a bowser, it will not cause an explosion. I think that the problem was that years ago the phones would interfere with the electronics and you could get charged the wrong amount for the fuel. It was usually in the customers favour so they banned the use of them near bowsers.

[bushonion]

Why do they require you to put the tank on the ground? I'm 50+ and female so can't lift a 25l tank back up and into the boat once I fill it... what the heck am I supposed to do?

When I did my Skippers ticket I asked and the instructor was stumped... would love to know the reasons and the solutions.

[Hamish73]

This video may answer a few questions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yQ53qiOnWeU



This wonans mistake was to get back in the car (with both feet off the ground) whilst refueling. The static electricity discharged via the pump nozzle.

I either remove the tank from the ute (normally fuel up the night before) and put it on the ground, or touch the pump and the ute at the same time to earth any static charge beore I remove the nozzle.

[wags on the water]

Maybe the tanker driver was upset that your mate was going fishing and he had to work.;D ;D

[Greg P]

On the same topic about fueling your boat, my local BP has just changed over all the std unleaded bowsers to 10% ethanol ulp with very little fanfare or actual signage on the bowser stack.

I dont know if it has happened elsewhere but it looks like some aren't going to put in seperate nozzles so if you do normally use unleaded take a quick look before pumping some in as I only just caught it before I started as I did use this servo to fill the boat all the time.

[cormorant]

Why do they require you to put the tank on the ground? I'm 50+ and female so can't lift a 25l tank back up and into the boat once I fill it... what the heck am I supposed to do?

When I did my Skippers ticket I asked and the instructor was stumped... would love to know the reasons and the solutions.


The reason with boat tanks or fuel cans is that there is no breather on them. All the fuel vapour forced out by the fuel going in can form an explosive gas mix in your boat bilge or in your car boot. A spark from an interior light or boat electronics could ignite it.

As for earth straps they are not required on cars as the nozzle is earthed against the metal fuel pipe.

Static electricity can form by movement of a liquid through a pipe. That static can be sparked against the lip on even a plastic tank which if the right vapour mix exists can explode.

Wind passing over a planes wings can create static charge.

Some rubber hoses are rated as fuel transfer hoses as they are conductive and prevent a static charge being created as fuel travels through them and air travels past them. Most plane refuelling hoses are such but they still double up with earth strp to ensure charge is dissapated before fuel pipi goes near plane

C

[hondaguy]

Was your mate in the boat or standing beside the boat when refilling? Would the fibreglass boat be more likely to hold static electricity compared to an alloy boat? Alloy boat would earth through the winch post to vechicle or when you touch it to discharge the static electricity. Does a fibreglass boat earth out the tank to the engine? hence the earth strap when refuelling suggestion

[cqfreshie]

Check the video again guys. I think you will find the young lady building up a bit of a charge as she adjusts her jumper, after geting out of the car. Her foot wear could be of interest as well.

I used to zap myself getting out of my car, and found it was from a pair of joggers I wore. Whether the car built up a charge and conducted to ground through the joggers or it was just the joggers, I don't know. But it was always the same scenario ... open door, step out, hand to door to close it .... zap ..... with a loud cracking noise also.

Cheers
Graham

[Pirate_Pete_Tas]

I have a Poly boat with an inbuilt poly tank. How the @$#% does the tanker driver think I can earth that !!!!

[marco]

This video may answer a few questions.





This wonans mistake was to get back in the car (with both feet off the ground) whilst refueling. The static electricity discharged via the pump nozzle.

I either remove the tank from the ute (normally fuel up the night before) and put it on the ground, or touch the pump and the ute at the same time to earth any static charge beore I remove the nozzle.

her main mistake was adjusting her jumper , that created the charge , the second mistake is locking the trigger on with motorspirit and walking away , static built up and then stuck her hand in where the fumes are rushing out.

as far as the tanker driver is concerned there are rules covered in the dangerous goods code which the driver should go by but there is nothing regarding what happened with the boat as explained above .

as far as the mobile phones go , mobil has documented two cases in victoria where people have been burnt and they blame the phones for it but who knows whether it is that or not , as far as tanker drivers and servo staff are concerned the phones are considered sources of ignition and the dangerous goods code is very strict about it with heavy fines for the staff concerned for allowing anyone to use them , i personally dont want to find out if it is true or not .

ive never heard of mobile phones effecting the read out of the bowsers .

[marco]

On the same topic about fueling your boat, my local BP has just changed over all the std unleaded bowsers to 10% ethanol ulp with very little fanfare or actual signage on the bowser stack.

I dont know if it has happened elsewhere but it looks like some aren't going to put in seperate nozzles so if you do normally use unleaded take a quick look before pumping some in as I only just caught it before I started as I did use this servo to fill the boat all the time.

yea there is a few bp's like that now and more to come . the bp at water tower manly is one which is crazy considering how many boats go past , there recommendation is to use premium at 6 cents a litre more .

[Lovey80]

Ausfish is right about the mobile phone furphy, EMR will not set off fuel vapour. By touching the ground with one hand before touching the dispenser will solve any static problems. That girl was pretty unlucky really. Having a static strap on the car will prevent static permenantly. I think i might fit one to my boat trailer after seeing that as i have a 160l fuel tank on the trailer.

Cheers Chris

[marco]

Ausfish is right about the mobile phone furphy, EMR will not set off fuel vapour.

Cheers Chris


thats a big call , how about a little experiment . drop 20 litres of unleaded onthe ground and stand in it with your mobile and have a chat . ;D

[Nowhere Bob]

I thought Mythbusters did the mobile phone thing and found it a myth.
Slightly off topic - I saw a bloke at the Pacific Paradise Servo topping up his bike while sitting astride it. As the fuel filled the tank, it pushed the vapour saturated air out of the tank I could see the vapour boiling down the outside of the tank and rolling over the heat fins on the cylinder head. I have an over active imagination and could see it getting really ugly in a nanosecond.
Yes petrol is dangerous & explosive stuff - otherwise it wouldn't be such a great fuel, but millions of cars old & new, earthed & not, refuel every day, often by people with matching IQs & shoe sizes - and we hear of damn few explosions.

[cormorant]

In regards to mobile phones I feel the rule was not for the EMF sparking but but the danger of non insulated battery connections and non sealed on off switches that can create sparking. The EMF has been shown in the lab not to be sufficient to spark or boil an egg by mythbusters etc etc.

If accidents do occur it is unlikely to be noticed as a statistic unless litigation follows. I know we have had fuel fires with filling motocross bikes as kids ( where did my eyebrows and fringe go) and model aircraft. Both a flash vapour burn or small spill burn and gone in a flash. More embarassed and frightened for 30 seconds than looking for a solicitor so it does happen. Bloke sitting astride his bike is a classic and I've seen it done while smoking- nothing happened till cap was on and he threw ciggy on ground- poof a little vapour fire on the dirt.

It just takes the right vapour mix and ignition source. 90% of the time it wouldn't happen.

As recently as last Summer off Pittwater there was a inboard powered cruiser which had a fire from vapour in the engine bay / bilge and burnt to the waterline.

I can tell you now that in dry central Australia planes can build up one hell of a charge and you put that earth lead on before touching the plane even though they have both static and lightening spike/rod to dissipate the charge.

C

PS I have a Poly boat with an inbuilt poly tank. How the @$#% does the tanker driver think I can earth that !!!!

The poly boat will/ can build up a charge as it is being towed as air moves over it.The surface of non conductive things like plastic / nylon / jumper can hold a static charge The bowsers are earthed. Inbuilt tank should have an external filler and also external breathers so no vapour ends up in the bilge. You undoing the fuel cap with your hand should dissipate any static charge and any remaining or further charge created by fuel going through hose should dissipate as bowser nozzle is touching your fuel filler.

[petelaska]

A while back I wasn't allowed to fill the dirt bikes up while they were on the trailer, This was at a BP station. I was told to take them off and fill them then put them back on the trailer.I told them to get stuffed and went down the road and filled up at the next servo
Pete

[gone_fishing]

at certain depots they recomend that all external tanks should be earthed before filling by a strap or placing on the ground to prevent any risk however small

bit of usless trivia a mobile phone has never been proven to start a fuel fire but you talk on one at the servo and poeple spit it

most petrol station fire are caused by women ( or happen to) and before some one goes off at me they belive it is because of
1. fancy undies like silk and
2. when they get out of the car in a lady like fashion they dont touch the car unlike a fella whom grabs the door and drags themslves out
this is what they put down to the cause of the video fire shown above
thats my 2 cents;D ;D

[KAGEY1]

You Get Out Of The Car, You Touch The Boat Away From The Fuel Filler Then Start Refuelling. The Static Is Discharged Through You First, Don't Leave The Nozzle Unattended. This Ensures That There Is No Further Build Up Of Static, Fill It Slowly Too As This Minimises Static That Can Build Up From The Fuel Moving Through The Nozzle.
All This Applies To Mower Fuel Cans Etc Too. Don't Leave Them In The Back Of Your Ute Etc If It Has A Plastic Tub Liner. It Might Go Boom!!!!!!!!!

[disorderly]

You Get Out Of The Car, You Touch The Boat Away From The Fuel Filler Then Start Refuelling. The Static Is Discharged Through You First, Don't Leave The Nozzle Unattended. This Ensures That There Is No Further Build Up Of Static, Fill It Slowly Too As This Minimises Static That Can Build Up From The Fuel Moving Through The Nozzle.
All This Applies To Mower Fuel Cans Etc Too. Don't Leave Them In The Back Of Your Ute Etc If It Has A Plastic Tub Liner. It Might Go Boom!!!!!!!!!

Kagey,

They Should Give You A n Award,Mate.Every Word You Have Spoken On This Site Here Has Been Preceeded By A Capital Letter.
Sorry Just Could Not Help But TaKe The Piss.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/grin.gif

ScOtT

[stark]

I have a Poly boat with an inbuilt poly tank. How the @$#% does the tanker driver think I can earth that !!!!

Pete

Use a poly strap. Simple??;D;D;D;D

Cheers
John

[gunnabuild1]

Just a thought but I was told a few years ago to avoid filling up anything at the same time or soon after the tanker had filled the tanks at the servo because of the sediment stirred up after the fill.Some of those tanks are pretty old,best procedures in the world there is gonna be some crap in there.
Makes a certain amount of sense just a thought.

[tunaticer]

I have dramas with fuel station attendants with my work. I regularly (every week) send the lackey down to the service station to get 200 litres of unleaded for the yard cranes. I use 20 litre jerry cans or 20 litre thinners drums to transport the fuel in. They are in the back of a alloy tray ute so they are grounded to the ute the same way as the ute's fuel tank is.

Some attendants demand all tanks to be removed from the ute to the ground for filling others don't.

I got tired of this arguement every second week and received one phone call from the service station demanding i rectify this weekly problem.

I built a 250 litre fuel tank that bolts to the back of the ute and sent that down for filling. The idiot at the fuel station said it must be removed from the tray for filling.

I changed fuel service providers, problem solvered. (gone back to 20 litre cans / drums for ease of use)

Jack.

[marco]

Just a thought but I was told a few years ago to avoid filling up anything at the same time or soon after the tanker had filled the tanks at the servo because of the sediment stirred up after the fill.Some of those tanks are pretty old,best procedures in the world there is gonna be some crap in there.
Makes a certain amount of sense just a thought.

there are filters in the bowsers for that reason

[stark]

I have dramas with fuel station attendants with my work. I regularly (every week) send the lackey down to the service station to get 200 litres of unleaded for the yard cranes. I use 20 litre jerry cans or 20 litre thinners drums to transport the fuel in. They are in the back of a alloy tray ute so they are grounded to the ute the same way as the ute's fuel tank is.

Some attendants demand all tanks to be removed from the ute to the ground for filling others don't.

I got tired of this arguement every second week and received one phone call from the service station demanding i rectify this weekly problem.

I built a 250 litre fuel tank that bolts to the back of the ute and sent that down for filling. The idiot at the fuel station said it must be removed from the tray for filling.

I changed fuel service providers, problem solvered. (gone back to 20 litre cans / drums for ease of use)

Jack.

I assume the attendants are suggesting that the ute itself is not grounded because of the rubber tyres (even though the filling nozzle is grounded and grounding the can??????). If a grounding strap from the ute to the bowser or a standpipe, problem solved (also you can make a bit of a dance routine to show how important the grounding strap is). Or better yet change stations as you did.

Cheers
John


Cheers
John

[Belly66]

Giday All, I drive fuel tankers for a living and have been reading the comments with interest. The biggest danger to anyone when it comes to handling fuel is static electricity, and not all people are cautious enough when they enter a service station. If you happen to be at a site when a tanker arrives take note of the first thing the driver does when he gets out of the truck, he will touch some part of the vehicle most times the tank to equalise the static charge between himself and the vehicle. All the hoses and are bound and earth the truck through the hydrant to again equalise the static charge, thats the reason you ground a gerry can to fill it and if its a plastic tank/can there wont be a problem if you have earthed yourself by touching the car or bowser. Fuel vapour is heavier than air so on a still day the vapour will be around your ankles and the danger with a mobile phone is if it is dropped, its a spark if the battery is dislodged that is the concern. I have asked people to not use their phone, fill a gerry can on the ground, and even not to smoke when I'm on site. Call me anal but I'm not about to let some goose at a servo blow me up as well as themselves through being complacent or ignorant to the dangers in what they are handling. My 2 bobs worth. Peter.

[rumy1]

As far as I know by law when a tanker is refuelling the servo storage tanks no-one is suppose to come with-in 15m of it. Which mean 99% of servo should shut down when a tanker is on their premises. Lost revenue .... I don't think any servo would do the right thing !!!

[Belly66]

I'm fairly sure that in New Zealand when a tanker is on site at a servo the site must close, that being the case then it wont be long until it happens here, which means poor bastards like me will never get off night shift.

[marco]

As far as I know by law when a tanker is refuelling the servo storage tanks no-one is suppose to come with-in 15m of it. Which mean 99% of servo should shut down when a tanker is on their premises. Lost revenue .... I don't think any servo would do the right thing !!!

eight meters in queensland

[marco]

Giday If you happen to be at a site when a tanker arrives take note of the first thing the driver does when he gets out of the truck, he will touch some part of the vehicle most times the tank to equalise the static charge between himself and the vehicle. Peter.

first thing i do is scratch my balls ;D then if there is a charge it adds to the thrill :o

[stark]

Don't tankers run grounding straps? In the older cars (1940s-1950s) many had a grounding strap attached near the rear bumper (in those days the bumper was chrome plated steel). This discharged any static buildup so that you did not get a shock when getting out of the car.

Cheers
John

[mikeyh]

In response to Marco and Gunnabuild1,
I worked in servos for years as a mechanic and later pumping gas as a cashless uni student...the filters are ok at catching some of the crap but they dont catch water...(well they didnt a few years back) I couldnt count the number of times we had to pull out car fuel tanks, expensive fuel injection gear because the car had a belly full of water. Granted was an old petrol station but they all get water in their tanks I reckon. My advice is forget about the worry of static etc...if I see a tanker going into or leaving a servo...keep on driving and fill up elsewhere. Bad enough to break down in a car....

[Belly66]

I will keep that in mind tonight at work Marco, it will be the only tickle I get.

[bushonion]

This is really interesting stuff...and it's great to have some people who really know what they're talking about: impressive guys! :)

Problem is... I still don't know what to do about the fact that if I fill the 25l tanks on the ground I can't lift the bloody things back into the boat (4.5m fibreglass) - I am simply not strong enough or tall enough! And where do you get a grounding strap? What's it made of and look like?

[bayliner2855]

Well if you guys keep filling plastic boats with out an earth strap there will be more room on the ocean for every one else. This is a known problem. Static sparks will cause an explosion of vapor. Also the plastic gerry cans have static, always use a strap to the can. A piece of electric fence tap will do.

[disorderly]

first thing i do is scratch my balls ;D then if there is a charge it adds to the thrill :o

Goodonya marco,
A man after my own heart.
I'll have to use the static electricity excuse next time my missus pulls me up on this exact exercisehttp://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/grin.gif.

"Sorry honey, but I was only thinking of your safety"http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/rolleyes.gif

Do you think she would believe me!http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/grin.gif

Scott

[Tailortaker]

On the same topic about fueling your boat, my local BP has just changed over all the std unleaded bowsers to 10% ethanol ulp with very little fanfare or actual signage on the bowser stack.

I dont know if it has happened elsewhere but it looks like some aren't going to put in seperate nozzles so if you do normally use unleaded take a quick look before pumping some in as I only just caught it before I started as I did use this servo to fill the boat all the time.
I noticed that the Bribie BP has done this the other day when putting deisel in the 4B which p**sed me off as I filled the boat there last week >:( is it bad for a 2 stroke outboard? :-/
________
M62 (http://www.bmw-tech.org/wiki/BMW_M62)

[ashh]

I saw a sticker on an ethnol/unlead pump the otherday at a servo that said along the lines of 'do not use in 2stroke engines'...