'Fish bait' kangaroo heads found on beach

[Synful]

Morning all,

Just read this story (http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/07/31/1992706.htm?section=justin) on ABC.net.au; bit of a gruesome find for some kids to see to say the least.

"The RSPCA is investigating the discovery of five kangaroo heads on a beach at Deception Bay, north of Brisbane.

Angie Rando says she found the severed heads near a boat ramp while taking a walk on Sunday afternoon."

Can any one vouch for the story?

I know that kangaroos can be a pain for farmers etc but even taking into account that there was *some* legit reason for this; surely someone could have dropped the heads off away from the ramp so kids didn't have to see it.

Tight lines,


Andrew.

[Marlin_Mike]

Thats sick.............

[finga]

What's worse??
Kangaroo heads or discarded fish frames and heads from big fish such as snappers, jews, bream, cods of all descriptions, sharks, rays, flatheads or any fish dumped at the ramp or a maggled cat or dog or bird or any animal on the road after a car, truck, bus or what-ever has hit it and a million other vehicles have run over it.
We're just used to the fish heads and frames and the dead dogs and cats that's all.
From where I come from a dead roo on the side of the road is like a baysider seeing a fish frame next to the ramp or a motorist on any road seeing a dead cat.
Maybe the dead roo's were road pizzas and somebody used them for shark bait??
Who know's??
A bit more tact disposing of the heads would have been nice though.
If that's the worst the kids see in their lives then they're very lucky.
Now if the roo's were killed just for someone to do this to them and they did it with that intention then the culprits are very sick individuals.

[thedeckie]

Should these people be caught, it's not only the obvious inhumane way these animals have been killed I think you will also find it is illegal to use native animals as fish/crab bait, I beleive there is big fines.CheersPaul

[flairj]

I'm with finga.........

A little more tact with the heads, but hey, we cut live fishes heads off all the time, I but kangaroo meat for dinner all the time, things are regularly killed by us, it's the way of things.

Don't be too quick to jump in bed with the animal lib crowd because fish are the next poor animals to have cruel, inhumane, digusting fisherman made to leave their defensless scaly bodies alone.

Josh

[upstart]

Roo bones are the best crab bait you can get. I personally buy mine from the pet food shop but I know plenty of people grab a bit of roadkill on the way to the ramp. I've also seen chicken heads being used for crab bait. Last year I did some recreactional rabbit shooting in Victoria for the first time. I thought that was a bit gruesome but ol' mate who skinned them and gutted 'em did it as if it was second nature. It's what you're used too I spose as I have absolutely no trouble lopping the head off a fish. How many of you are expert nappy changers? I don't have kids and I gag whenever I smell a dirty nappy. Have to get used to it one day I spose.

[Foxy4]

I agree with Finga on this one.

[Noelm]

maybe it was not a fisherman at all but a "hunter" that cleaned his family meat supply down by the water and just left the heads there by mistake, or was caught by a passerby and bolted, although I must admit, Skippy and chips is not on my list of favorites.

[tunaticer]

I listened to the report on the radio yesterday with the interview with the person who found these heads. Knowing that Dec Bay ramp leads out over a massive sand/mud flat several hundred metres to the waters edge at low tide and the way the story was told I had the impression that hte heads were out from the ramp a fair way and not beside the ramp as lots of ppl are saying.

I have no problem with these heads being used as bait as long as they have come from harvested roos.

Jack.

[Tailortaker]

I hate roos, I lived in Longreach for 2 years and often went out roo shootin with the boys. They are a bloody pest. The same goes for ferel pigs. The problem here is that Deception bay is not the place that someone would go huntin for Roos. So I would dare say that they were dumped after being killed else where. They could of dumped them more appropiately.
________
WENDIE 99 (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

[Dicko]

Should these people be caught, it's not only the obvious inhumane way these animals have been killed I think you will also find it is illegal to use native animals as fish/crab bait, I beleive there is big fines.CheersPaul


How where they killed that was obviously inhumane ?

I must be missing something from the link to the article posted.

[darrmun]

i'm with finga on this one too ! every now & then if we shoot a roo or 2 for the dogs & i'm going to put the pots in i'll use a bit for bait ( we do have a npws permit & the required tags !!! ) , i feel that city slickers need to get out there & open there eyes up to real life rather than reality tv & whats in fashion ie hunting is cruel ,dont like firearms etc etc.
when they were bringing in firearm laws & animal lib issues etc. a lot of shooters/hunters said that fisherman are next & guess what ... ..... marine parks , fishing licences , no go zones etc etc
our 2 little people are exposed to it regularly (3yrs & 4yr ) & believe they are all the better for it , they know where & what the meat & veges come from & what cows , deer , sheep are raised for , hell our little boy wouldn't eat anything that wasn't deer that daddy had shot !!!!!
regards darryn

ps i'm perhaps a little more tactfull where i leave offal though !!!

[thedeckie]

How where they killed that was obviously inhumane ?

I must be missing something from the link to the article posted.


Killed should probably be replaced with dumped.

Any further questions?


Cheers

Paul

[blaze]

maybe a bit of caveman left in me, I dont mind a roo pattie, good lean meat and barbies well. Not the place to leave heads but I would reckon that about fish heads and frames too.
cheers
blaze
ps
can someone please tell me a humane way of killing. All we can do is try our

[SeaHunt]

Yeah if they were found out on the banks of the Condamine noone would bat an eyelid.
The RSPCA seem to get a bit over excited about some of these things, definately manned by people who grew up in the city.

[Dignity]

I'm with finga and blaze on this one although how the heads came to be there is another issue. Maybe the pelicans prefer fish frames to roo heads. I think the media blow evrything out of proportion - how did they establish that they were used for "Fish bait"

sam

[Wahoo]

well im blaming the Vego;s :-X:-X:-X;D;D;D:P:P

[buhky62]

Yer fair go guys you can buy a lot of that sort of left overs from a lot of different places
And as said in previous posts if it was out west somewhere no one would bat an eyelid.
i shot roos in cunnamulla for seven years and once the carcuss has been tagged whats left can be used for what ever you like.
As for it being illegal to use native animals for for fish or crab bait,why can you buy roo meat and roo tails to feed your dog .
I think that statement is wrong ,I have used roo meat for for fresh water yabbys and crabs just go to your local porduce store and buy it ,Its good crab bait .
And go to selected butcher shops and buy a feed for your family.
How do you know how it was killed humanely or not roo shooters have to kill by head shot only did anyone go and have a look to see if it was shot in the head.
My kids were bought up around roo shooters ,pig chasers,goat running , and even home butchery its how they do things in the bush .
Fair enough its not what some people are used to but it happens so dont put them down for useing soo heads ,people all over australia do it .
As for dumping them near the ramp they could have dumped away some where else

Well thats my 2 cents worth anyway

Thanks ......BOB

[choppa]

i was raised in victoria,,,,, my whole family stems from there,,,,, my brother in law ran a spot mill just north east of orbost for over 30 years and he trained irish wolfhounds as roo dogs,,,,

kangaroo meat,,,,,,, check out your local woolworths,,, its NOW THERE,,,, in presealed bags,,, all nice and colorful,,,

kangaroo tail soup,,,, loved it as a kid,,,,

the courier mail had an article in there paper today about 3 inches by 3 inches,,, and even though i agree with finga,,, its how the roos were killed that is the question,,,

finding that many to me,,, means that the chances of them JUST being killed is slim,,, not out of the question,,,but slim,,,,

being dumped is the grey area though,,,, if they were were used for crab bait,,, throw em back in,,,

not finding the carcass's is my concern,,,, these could have been used for consumption,,,hides,,dog food etc etc etc,,, it makes me wonder more that if the person/persons responsible have dumped the heads,,, what do they intend on doing with the rest

by the way,,, roo steak is bloody good tucker if prepared correctly,,,, can be a bit ""gamey"" if not hung,,, but a choice cut of meat

choppa

[Tailortaker]

If killed roos, butchered them and ate them. Not a bad feed at all. IT's a funny thing that poeple around here would freak about roo heads cause about 2-3 years ago I was in Dysart (central west QLD) for work, when you turned off the main drag to enter the town someone had strung a massive GT to the street sign. Poeple were both discusted and freaked out about it, but if it was a roo head they would'nt of looked twice as it would'nt bother them in the least..
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Buy eas vape (http://vaporizers.net)

[gleeeza]

Media beat up as per usual. Always a lot of holes in their stories to promote an emotionally based response(Worked).

I have softened in my method of killing fish these days because it is better for the quality of the flesh but I did what the old man practiced for years just letting them flip around to slowly suffocate on the bottom of a fish box with a wet sack over them, regretable!

Not a bad idea utilising the heads for bait if indeed that is what went down. The fact that no carcasses were keeping them company says to me that the dogs are eating well or maybe even the family.

I almost exclusively eat roo these days and would do up my own if I had access to them. I have done up my own meat in the past with my father in law who was a shearer and exposed me to good home killed meat properly hung years ago. Best thing in the world, the colour takes some getting used to, a shitty grey when well hung but you could eat it without teeth if you had to.

First time I did up my own meat I was very green around the gills but had decided that if I wanted to eat it then I had to earn the right to. Toddling off to the market to grab a pre packed meal is all good and well but somebody went to a lot of trouble to get it there and it wouldn't do people any harm to know how that all takes place .IMO

Cheere Glenn

[Synful]

Geez guys!

Didn't think this would get such a big response; couple of things to clear up:
I'm about as far from a greenie as you can get
I love roo meat on the Barbie - takes some getting used to but if I have the choice between steak and roo, skippy gets my vote all the time :)
I have no problem with the roos being killed and their meat taken to feed a family or pets.
I do disagree that the heads were left where they were though; if they were used for bait then like someone else said, chuck 'em overboard when you're finished with em in the crab pots or whatever. Next to the ramp isn't the place for 'em, it will attract sharks in that area - up here in Cairns there'd be scaly critters lining up everywhere ::)
I used to own a rifle so I am not anti gun ownership by any means.
I do understand that all that meat we buy pre-packaged in the supermarket, someone has to "get their hands dirty" for it to be there.I also agree with Finga that if that's the worst that the kids see in their lives then they are lucky; however how do you explain how and why skippy's head is in the water and where the rest of skippy is to a kid of say 2 to 5 years old?

Again, I do not have a problem with the people who did it using the roo heads as crab bait or whatever, I just think that they should have been a bit more responsible where they dumped them after they had finished.

[disorderly]

I,m not into cruelty to animals or humans.
But I've got no problem with shooting roo's as long as they are dispatched as painlessly as possible.
Gee it must have been a slow news day to make a drama of a few roo heads.
It's a sad reflection of our world where we send our young men overseas to kill other young men and often women,old folk and children too, but we make such a fuss over a few vermin.

Scott

[Poodroo]

Adults tend to be able to deal with seeing death better than kids can whether it be a pet, wild animals, or whatever but visions like severed roo heads in unlikely places such as this can be very disturbing for some children. We as adults need to set better examples for our kids and should use our brains a bit more to stop exposing our younger children to the unpleasantries that exist in this world. I'm with you on this one too Scott.

Poodroo

[finga]

how do you explain how and why skippy's head is in the water and where the rest of skippy is to a kid of say 2 to 5 years old?

Again, I do not have a problem with the people who did it using the roo heads as crab bait or whatever, I just think that they should have been a bit more responsible where they dumped them after they had finished.

Not picking on you Andrew but you've put the thoughts of many over so well.

Exactly the same way you explain the fish heads at the ramp and why Molly the moggy is sleeping in the middle of the road or why Nana doesn't visit anymore (if poor Nana has departed this good earth)
Start explaining all of life's experiences early and the kids will be a lot better for it in the end.
Bit like playing in the dirt...get them used to all the bugs in the dirt and they'll be better off for it later in life by building up their immune systems.
No need to insulate/sterilise kids from dramas that happen in everyday life. It's going to happen sooner or later so it's better off sooner then later IMO .
Sit them down and do some explaining and life will be sweet.:)

A couple of questions....
How did everyone explain the act of fishing and bringing the fish home away from it's home...the act of scaling, gutting, chopping the head off and filleting of and then the dumping of the head, guts and frame of poor Nemo to their kids??
How did everyone explain the act of pumping yabbies and threading them on a hook alive??
etc etc you probably get my drift here.
Sit the kids down and explain this unfortunate happening the same way and the kids will be better for the experience and a lot better for the explanation from the parents.
I mean we're talking about little humans that, not so long ago, played in their own poo so the actual act of been horrified is a learned response from the parents not from their genetic make-up.

And who knows exactly how/where/why the heads were left. They could have been 300m out on the mudflats or the tide drifted them in?? It's all speculation.
Who knows what the truth is as as soon as the paper grabs hold of the story sensationalism is the key to the story not the facts.

But if someone did do this on purpose they seriously need an attitude adjustment.

[kingtin]

Deception (Deliverance) Bay eh? Perhaps the local pimp found some younger stock and decided to have a clean out? ;) ;D

kev

Top Tips:

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[Noelm]

still don't have "Skippy" on the menu at my place, but I know they can be and are a pest in some places, kind of like those bloody shit White Cockatoos at my place, if I had a gun I would not think twice about blasting the noisey destructive crap things.

[Mattg68]

It's amazing how we react to television. It's put up on the screen for all to see & suddenly there's outrage over a few roo heads found in the general population. I wonder what would happen if you gathered up the cow heads from an abattoir & scattered them on the beach, wholely bloody hell what an uproar. As a few have pointed out it's what your used to & within reason.

Out of sight, out of mind.

Us ignorant lot.

Matt

[alfish]

Exactly the same way you explain the fish heads at the ramp and why Molly the moggy is sleeping in the middle of the road or why Nana doesn't visit anymore (if poor Nana has departed this good earth)
Start explaining all of life's experiences early and the kids will be a lot better for it in the end.
Bit like playing in the dirt...get them used to all the bugs in the dirt and they'll be better off for it later in life by building up their immune systems.
No need to insulate/sterilise kids from dramas that happen in everyday life. It's going to happen sooner or later so it's better off sooner then later IMO .
Sit them down and do some explaining and life will be sweet.:)

A couple of questions....
How did everyone explain the act of fishing and bringing the fish home away from it's home...the act of scaling, gutting, chopping the head off and filleting of and then the dumping of the head, guts and frame of poor Nemo to their kids??
How did everyone explain the act of pumping yabbies and threading them on a hook alive??
etc etc you probably get my drift here.
Sit the kids down and explain this unfortunate happening the same way and the kids will be better for the experience and a lot better for the explanation from the parents.
I mean we're talking about little humans that, not so long ago, played in their own poo so the actual act of been horrified is a learned response from the parents not from their genetic make-up.


well said finga

al

[dfox]

Im an accredited roo shooter and although i know little about this incident there seems to be a few problems.
Firstly the heads seem to be whole from what i can gather, if the roo's were taken in accordence with the laws they would have been head shot, and for those that havent seen a roo head after its been hit by a 223, lets say theres quite often not much left.
Secondly eastern greys are protected this side of the ranges, so if there locally killed that also is illegal.
Thirdly, its part of the feild processing laws of wild game meat either for human or animal consumption that any off cuts or discarded parts be desposed of in such away as to NOT discredit the industry, so dumping of heads on or near the beach would be a violation id suspect.
I for one have used heads of sheep, pigs, chickens, rabbits, fish etc for crab bait many times, but i think that in this case there are a few answers that need answering ...foxy

[Fish Guts]

Yeah if they were found out on the banks of the Condamine noone would bat an eyelid.
The RSPCA seem to get a bit over excited about some of these things, definately manned by people who grew up in the city.

How are they getting over excited ? Its a very random occurance that a decapitated roo head (3) are found at a boat ramp nth of Brisbane. Yea look if they were dead roo's all in one piece, fair enough, but i think they have every reason to look into it. Its a random act and quite disturbing. No excuse at all for it to have occured, and if the rspca didnt act, youd have people whinging that they didnt. Do get sick of the country mentality towards roos sometimes...

hope they find out how the roos heads were found on that ramp. un-australian if you ask me..

[Sea-Dog]

I wonder if a greenie could acquire a few roo heads to leave in an obvious place to bring public scorn upon their target adversary group. (the fisho's)

Good tactics......

[tunaticer]

SHHH Sea-Dog!!! fer chrissakes don't give their feeble minds fuel!!

[mattooty]

Personally i think it would all stem down to something really simple.
As foxy said, they have most likely not come from a shot roo.
My best guess, and what i would have thought would have been obvious is that they have just taken it from roadkill to use as crab bait.
And then how many of us have just dumped mullet frames out of the pots after a days crabbing?
This is being made out to be alot bigger than it is.
Simply dumped bait.
What more is there to make of it?
Matt

[shaman]

Dumped bait I reckon.............. Finga's on the money about kids being traumatised by this type of occurence................ my dopey ex-wife bought a guinnea-pig for my daughter when she was about 3 even though we had a mastiff cross staffy gun dog (sheez). It had already eaten a rabbit kitten she brought home but she insisted I keep it in the cage and it would be fine. So I kept it in the cage in the garage for the first week or so but one day the dog wandered in the shed as I was doing whatever and spotted the cage and went over to have a sniff and then let out this huge BARK and little Fluffy grabbed it's chest and keeled over dead (still makes me giggle). I kicked the dog up the ar$e and grabbed Fluffy and chucked him/her/it in the bin and went out to polish the car. About 1/2 hr or so later my daughter wanders out of the garage asking where Fluffy is so i told her it was dead, she asked did the dog eat it and I said no but after the rabbit she didn't believe me so I pulled Fluffy out of the bin and showed her and she just shrugged her shoulders and went to play with her Barbies. Just proves that kids react the way they are taught or expected to...
My two young blokes (10&12) have been raised on the water and have watched me gut and kill fish etc and if they had seen these roo heads they would have said "SICK" and had a closer examination. I have never held back on life's basics (death etc) with 'em and they are well adjusted and normal.. BTW my daughter is now 22 and she is a mentally tough, unshakeable woman and heads up a senior dept for an (australian icon) multi-national clothes manufacturer (proud dad).......
Yeah dumped bait.......................

[Mattg68]

Shaman, great little story mate, still having a giggle myself. Exactly right though, blood them early and with the right attitude it can soften the blow. Spot on.

Matt

[gitto]

Im with u darrmun . Seems u grew up in the great south east (brisbane vally or maybe Mary vally) too. Have u evered tried venions for bream bait she's the go . Im a hunter and a meat shooter, my family lives on the stuff. These blokes carring on about these bloody roo heads just dont no what goes on in the bush . Where not all feed on a silver spoon

[OISTA]

cheers
blaze
ps
can someone please tell me a humane way of killing. All we can do is try our

My idea of a humane way of killing is to kill your chosen prey (wheather it be land or marine based) quickly and as painlessly as possible. When I'm out hunting with the bow or rifle I only aim for vital areas (head, heart/lung, spine) and if unsure that I can despatch the critter quickly I won't shoot. When I catch a fish, If it's to be kept it gets measured, cut the flap of skin under its gills then pull the head back breaking the neck.
I believe we owe our prey a quick death.

Hope this helps

Mic

[shaman]

I believe we owe our prey a quick death.

Hope this helps

Mic

Argggghhhh, sounds a bit grizzly heh? Fact...... all animals kill to survive, be it plants or other animals............. so do we? yeah!

We are omnivorous creatures, which means we eat steak and vegies.

The tree huggers would have us believe that we are not the apex predator because there are stronger and larger animals out there. Apparently we only became who we are through cheating and deception. One word dickheads, EVOLUTION, we became more intelligent to survive because we weren't the biggest or strongest, DUH!.

Now I do believe that among our bi-pedal community there are a few nasty examples but that happens among the rest of the food chain also.
I also believe that in the majority we dispatch our tucker quite expediantly and with a fair amount of mercy, unlike a pride of 30 or so lions pulling down a cow elephant and chewing her to death or a great white swallowing a seal whole.

All this muck over a couple of roo heads (which i must say are a fair way down the food chain) scaring our poor defenceless children into a myriad of nightmarish experiences.... Stop it.

Moral: dont chuck roo heads on beach ya boneheads. They make good soup....

[ozbee]

50%pork 40%beef 10% roo best salamis

[Seabird]

Do we REALLY need the 'rambo' approach to this issue??

One doesn't have to be a 'greenie' to find this act offensive.

It certainly isn't as bad as 15 luderick I saw, gasping for breath on the rocks, with their side fillets removed. (Under Fisheries law, that is an offence).

Let's get things into perspective.

[disorderly]

Do we REALLY need the 'rambo' approach to this issue??

One doesn't have to be a 'greenie' to find this act offensive.

It certainly isn't as bad as 15 luderick I saw, gasping for breath on the rocks, with their side fillets removed. (Under Fisheries law, that is an offence).

Let's get things into perspective.

The big difference is the roo's were obviously quite dead and speculation into the manner of death is just plain pointless.
While your observation of the blackfish highlights an obvious act of abject cruelty and makes me sick to the guts to think that someone would think that's acceptable behavior.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/cry.gif

Scott

[Seabird]

I agree absolutely, Scott! You are quite right... the deaths of the roos will probably remain a mystery. However, (and maybe I'm from a different school), but to see the roo heads, would have made me just as sick as the 'still alive' luderick carcasses.

One could ague til the cows come home, that fish do or don't feel pain. Whatever the case, 'it's not a good look' for the image of recreational fishers.

[shaman]

Speaking of roo meat I purchased a couple of cryovac'd roo mini roasts at woolies for about $8 a kilo (2 roasts for about $10) I rubbed them in sharwoods tandoori sauce and roasted them slowly in tha oven...... O.M.G sensational... I served them up at an indian themed dinner party I put on for some friends and they were the highlight. Only complaint was they were a bit grissley so when carving I had to remove the grissle. Everybody had 2nds and the tandoori aroma kept the roo odour at bay..................... whatever yoooouuu dooooo just give it a gooooo...

[Tailortaker]

Sounds good Shaman, I dont mind the old roo meat at all, I occasionally throw some on the BBQ when we have freinds over, I usually buy the roo fillets and make kababs, and buy the roo snags (kanga bangas) and I usually throw some goat chops on aswell, the goat is beutifull in mint & rosemary marinade. But to the point just beacause the roo heads where found by a boat ramp doesnt mean that fisherman are responsible.
________
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[Fish Guts]

seabird,

cant agree more.