Mayday call out from Gladstone

[mangomick]

Has anybody heard anymore on how the haines turned over at Douglas Shoals on Saturday.
Crew of four were damn lucky. Only message heard was Mayday Mayday Mayday this is Rich... then completely dead.
Call was picked up by VMR Gladstone who asked all boats to check their immediate areas.
Call from a guy out at Douglas Shoals reported people waving and was heading over to check them out. Turned out they were on upturned Haines with only about 5 foot of nose sticking out of water.
Conditions at the time were practically glassed out so I would be interested to know how accident happened . Best way to learn is by others mistakes.
Did see a large whale around Rock Cod Shoals on Friday which we gave a wide berth to.
If anyone has more info
Cheers

[Owen]

I spoke to someone who works with one of the people that was onboard.
Apparently it was an 80's vntage haines 17 footer.
They were anchored (off the bow) and were about to leave when a wave came over the stern. The bilge pump couldn't get it out before the next one came over and in trying to start the motor she hydraulic'd
What we heard was all he had time to give before the radio went under.

I asked if they had done something silly like anchor off the stern, but was told no.
Not sure what the general conditions were. We were at the shoals and it was pretty good, but I suppose if you were low in the bum and stern on to a wave....
Not sure why she was stern on anyway??

[rat_catcher]

What time of day was this on Saturday? We arrived at Johnson Patch around 1900 and anchored there overnight. The conditions weren't too bad until around 0330 when it started to get a bit sloppy. We only saw one other boat anchored and three trawlers working all night. Didn't hear anything about the overturned boat, but I guess it must have happened before we got on the water.

[mangomick]

rat-catcher
it would have happened somewhere around 9am saturday.
I heard he had a pod on that let go and the change in weight caused the boat to lurch to one side then fill with water.
Hard to believe a wave came over the stern because conditions were pretty good out there Saturday morning. Virtually glassed out at Tullarook
I know the tide/wind was pretty diabolical on Friday night/early saturday morning. At one stage my anchor rope was hanging directly under the boat and during the swing it somehow wrapped itself around the prop. Now that could have been interesting if a few big waves sprang from nowhere:-/
Be interesting to read the VMR report to get all the details

[rat_catcher]

Any more news on this from anybody? I have been asking friends around town today and nobody knows anything about it.

[mangomick]

The Mrs came home with a story that he had something on the back of the boat that he hadnt turned off properly. ?????
This was one woman talking to another so I dont know exactly what was being referred to.
Maybe some sort of stabilizer

[bay_firey]

Maybe a pump for a live bait tank ??
Water overflowed into the boat making it bum heavy ??

I know i am just clutching at straws

If it was one woman to another they could have been talking about the anchor light for all we know

[Luke G]

maby a sea anchor?

[rat_catcher]

I asked at Barra Jacks today to see if they had heard anything about this and nobody had. I haven't found anybody that knows anything! I would really like to know the real details. Anybody??

[Kerry]

If this was a 17 foot haines in that area then people are really going well beyond their limits. Going to be a serious incident if that type of attitude continues.

[Owen]

Latest I heard was that a pod had been fitted and a transom door added.
The door was "not closed" and a wave came over the back.
The bilge pump either failed to operate, or couldn't clear it before the next one came in.
Down she goes.

[mangomick]

Thanks Owen
That makes a bit more sense. sik008 was apparently the one who returned them to the Boyne. He may be able to shed more light on what conditions were like at the time. I would have thought it would have been pretty well glassed out

[rat_catcher]

Latest I heard was that a pod had been fitted and a transom door added.
I had heard a story that the pod let go and that is how so much water got it. Not sure if this is true or not. I am not sure what the weather was like out there Saturday morning, but in the evening it was quite calm, until about 0330 when it started to get sloppy again. If Saturday morning was like Sunday morning then it could have been a little sloppy.

[sik008]

we picked em up....it wasnt glassed out it was about 10-15 and pretty sloppy.....We were bout 2nm away from them when it happened then we heard mayday mayday this is rich...then the batteries went under.....we picked them up and radioed VMR to tell them...Then we took em back to the boyne river and dropped em off where the police were there to question them....how it happened???

where the transom door was supposed to be there was none so a wave came over the back through the transom door and they tried to take off but the ladies line got stuck around the prop and soon after (30 secs to a minute) the boat sunk with only the nose sticking out...

Cheers alex

[Kerry]

So to confirm things: This was a 17 foot haines, 3 POB, that came out of the Boyne River (Gladstone) and went ot Douglas Shoals ??

[davez104]

She would have had a fair old load on board with 3 people, fishing gear, bait, ice and what, 300+L of fuel. A transom door that wasn't there??? Presuming it WAS an old Haines, they don't have a huge amount of freeboard at the stern to start with, so to put a great big hole there, well, there would be none at all. Good to hear that they all got home in one piece and hopefully one of them might be able to get on here and tell us all about the events leading up to this.

Dave.

[Owen]

Not sure exactly how far Douglas Shoals is from the Boyne, but it'd have to be close on 100nm looking at the map?
Would explain the difference in conditions between there and rock cod shoals where we were.
Too far for this little black duck. The little quinnie would sink under the weight of th fuel I'd have to carry :)

[mangomick]

Thanks sik008
Always good to know how accidents like that happen . Helps us all avoid a similar situation. I guess some accidents show that a good helping of common sense can go a long way to avoiding an embarrassing /life threatening situation. Although I suppose we can all be geniuses after the fact :'(

[Kerry]

....Not sure exactly how far Douglas Shoals is from the Boyne...

It is a dam long way in a 17' anything which is why I have asked for someone to actually confirm this but so far there's been jack!

IF this is in fact the case then one simply has to ask why the hell would anybody in a 17 foot haines come out of the Boyne and go to Douglas shoals?

Is there anybody who can confirm this? Better still say it twice!

[sik008]

4 P.O.B and 10-15 knots out 120 nautical miles.

[lou reed]

sounds like skipper needs a good kick up the stern . those haines are overated as well

[Kerry]

Then one would have to question their common sense but there isn't common sense to question.

They should all get the DH of the year award!

[rat_catcher]

Always good to know how accidents like that happen . Helps us all avoid a similar situation.
Exactly, and that is why I was so interested in finding out the details. I was out there on the Saturday night and always try to keep my wits about me. I just wanted to know the true story to make sure I learn something from it.

Not sure about the 17' side of things though. Has anybody confirmed exactly what type and size was the boat?

I have a Signature 702L with 340L fuel and sometimes I think it is too small!

[Bushido]

By my reckoning the Douglas shoals is 50Mi and 12 mi from land. It wasn’t the distance out, that caused them to sink, and if the same thing had happened 2mi out they still could have drowned if no one had picked them. I have heard many conflicting stories as to what happened, but the one consistent thing is the speed the boat went down, that is something to consider when stowing safety gear. The other thing to consider is, had they gotten their life jackets on, how far could they have drifted if help wasn't nearby.
They were very lucky.

[Kerry]

Well lets hear the conflicting stories as to what happened?

But for the distance thay had to travel they were certainly fueled up for a dam sight more than 50mi off the coast. Like lets face it they came out of the Boyne river and were ENE of Yeppoon in a 17' Haines, single engine & what 4 POB.

All this in a 17' haines, really what were they thinking??? Whu would anybody in their right mind do that? Why the hell would anybody want to go to Douglas out of gladstone in a 17' Haines??

They could have drifted quite a long way depending on exactly which side (east/west) of the current they could have got stuck in?

[Bushido]

Kerry,

I don’t want to cloud the issue any more with unsubstantiated stories, it seems every one I talk to knows bloke who works with a bloke who was on board, if I find out the truth I will post it.

Don’t think I condone the distance they travelled or how overloaded the boat was, I am just not fixated by it. Having no experience of being on a sinking boat, I would like to learn from their mistakes and hear how people have prepared themselves should the worst happen. I was hoping someone with your extensive experience would suggest strategies to best stay alive once you are in the water, not just crow about their obvious errors.

Perhaps there is someone out there really experienced who would like to share their ideas.

As for the distance out, I apologise if the distance I quoted was wrong, my mapping software says 50nm, if some one can give me an accurate distance from Boyne, not just; it’s along way, I would like to know.

[Owen]

we picked em up....it wasnt glassed out it was about 10-15 and pretty sloppy.....We were bout 2nm away from them when it happened then we heard mayday mayday this is rich...then the batteries went under.....we picked them up and radioed VMR to tell them...Then we took em back to the boyne river and dropped em off where the police were there to question them....how it happened???

Cheers alex



4 P.O.B and 10-15 knots out 120 nautical miles.

I'll take Alex's word for the distance they were out and the sequence of events.
Being first on the scene is somewhat better than the brother of the mate of somebody who works with the sister of the owner of the boat methinks ;)

[Kerry]

Bushido,

One of their major obvious errors was being where they were in what they were in the first place as it is simply no place for a 17 foot boat 4POB and the amount of fuel they would require. My guess is they would be in breach of the vessels capacity lmits and well overloaded?

So yes the very first stategy is to stay within the vessels limits.

This bit of water can be one very unfriendly stretch of water and quite a few people have been lost.

Once you are in the water out there then you really have a problem, you are at the mercy of the current and as in previous cases the sharks. Weather can be very changeable out there especially in southerly type conditions.

The thing is to be found fast and this case tends to highlight how useless radios are when underwater. These people were extremely lucky (and luck plays a big part) as it turned out with other vessels being so close by.

If their was no immediate vessels in the area then the quickest way you are going to be found is via an EPIRB and chopper out of Rocky as to get rescue vessels on the scene that far out would take a little while.

So one would have to say without a lifejacket & EPIRB/PLB (together) then the odds decrease considerably with time.

Oh and just for the record it is certainly not 120nm from the Boyne to Douglas, 120km maybe by not 120nm!

[Fish Guts]

good reason to have your house battery at midships or forward. if the other boat wasnt close by i think there would have been 4 people added to the statistics.

[Fish Guts]

woudlnt be suprised if the police charged the skipper too. i remember seeing a guy charged that came across from moreton in ridiculous conditions with a 5 yr old kid or even younger, boat flipped and had to get rescued.

[rumy1]

I would agree that it is 120km's not 120nm at the most. So the people started to sink, the got out a mayday call but where was the most important tool ..... the epirb ? They didn't know that anyone got their radio call so why didn't they set off their epirb .... my guess is they didn't have one ?
I have a 18 ft new Haines Signature with a new 140 Suzuki .... I would go to Doughlas by myself, only the one boat. (another person onboard also) All I have to carry is an extra 60 lts of fuel ontop of my 150 lt tank. Gives me plenty of fuel for there and back.
I have my epirb right beside me and my lifejackets within arms reach.

[mangomick]

. those haines are overated as well

lou
You might need to feed a bit more line out if your waiting for a bite;D

[rumy1]

Haines over-rated .... what planet are you from. They would be one of the most proven sea going boats ever built. What type of boat do you have .... an enamel bathtub and use your arse through the plug hole to power it.
Your full of it mate so go and do some research and see which boats are good before you shoot off your mouth about something you obviously know nothing about.

There, you got your bite ;)

[blaze]

Haines over-rated .... what planet are you from. They would be one of the most proven sea going boats ever built. What type of boat do you have .... an enamel bathtub and use your arse through the plug hole to power it.
Your full of it mate so go and do some research and see which boats are good before you shoot off your mouth about something you obviously know nothing about.

There, you got your bite ;)
I also think haines are over rated (my nephew used to build them, want some horror stories) exspecially if the ar$e end has been cut out of one that hasnt been designed to be cut out, the deck of a 17 footer would at best be at sea level when stopped.
cheers
blaze
ps I have a glass 6m hartley

[disorderly]

Haines over-rated .... what planet are you from. They would be one of the most proven sea going boats ever built.

There, you got your bite ;)

Getting just a little bit exited there,rumy1.http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/grin.gif
There are a few boats I'd take over the Haines if I wanted "the most proven sea going boat ever built"http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/../yabbfiles/Templates/Forum/default/wink.gif.

Scott

[Kerry]

Arh the good ol' mudguard principle :)

Some of the things you can't see from the outside would make your hair stand on end!

[Kerry]

Anyway forgetting all the over rated hype, which is obviosuly alive and well :) just what is it that makes people do what some people do these days?

30 years ago it was a big deal for a twin engine formula to go half the distance some of the DH's are going today but back then there were no GPS, no VHF, no cell phones, paper sounders, no rescue helicopters, boat ramps were deserted all week, 1 lane ramp was more than adequate and in fact very few DH's on the water :)

These days it's wall to wall almost every day of the week, 8 lane ramps that most can only manage to launch 3 rigs at a time anyway and silly people going crazy distances and taking crazy risks for what ??????????????

Is it

- their over confidence?
- BS hype about their vessel?
- technology?
- knowing that if they stuff up there will be someone to come and get them?
- weather forecasting?
- being ghunho?
- careless?
- inexperience?
- technology?
- green zones pushing people further afield?
- GPS?
- stupidity?
- technology?
- DH's
- ??????????????????

Obviously must be more to add to the list?

Regards, Kerry.

[disorderly]

Kerry ,
a couple more

-the spirit of adventure?
-because they can?

Scott

[Kerry]

So Scott when "their" adventure turns sour "they" who do this because "they" can will then expect people to put their own lives at risk to pull them out of "their" adventure!

Is this what people have become? Adventure seeking reckless morons?

[rumy1]

I got a few responses .... hahahaha !

[Kerry]

I got a few responses .... hahahaha !

Then lets hear them buddy, not point in holding back :-X

All these 18 foot single engine hobo's wanting to run to places like Douglas need to do some serious thinking ::)

[cormorant]

One more to the list
Because the boat manufacturers litrature told em it was a offshore boat.

People read it and believe it!!!!

[Kerry]

Arh :) there's THAT word OFFSHORE truely used and abused!

[rumy1]

All these 18 foot single engine hobo's wanting to run to places like Douglas need to do some serious thinking ::)


Kerry ... do think it is mad of me to head out to Doughlas Shoals from Gladstone for a days fishing on a forcasted good day ( 5-10 knots) in my new 5.42m Haines Signature with the new 140 Suzuki on back ?
I think it is perfectly safe and wouldn't hesitate to go. I watch the weather closely and log on to VMR every time. My boat can easily handle 10-15 kt winds and that's what sent that boat to it's grave ..... along with stupidity and no transom door.

[Kerry]

That's why they call a forecast a forecast? Because it hasn't happened yet and yes from Gladstone in a 5.42m single engine haines to Douglas your a bloody idiot! Really no other way to put it for someone who makes that type of statement!

It's obvious you haven't done too many trips like this (if any) otherwise you would know a dam lot better!

Regards, Kerry.

[rumy1]

What boat do you consider safe to venture 85km's to Doughlas Shoal (from the North Entrance.) safe ?
I am working on saving up for a 40 ft cat with twin 225's on the rear but I don't think I'll live that long. So maybe I should leave it for the rich guys who can afford them gaint cats for OFFSHORE work.
I have been to Sykes 4 times, Bloomfield once, NW island once, Rockcod Shoals heaps, Masthead a few times also since I have had my boat and I always wait till good weather and have never had a problem.
I certainly don't consider myself an idiot and I can tell you there are plenty of boats out there mainly my size running around.
So maybe we're all idiots and your not hey ?
I enjoy my boat but you can go and buy your Cruisecraft Outsider 18 ft'er and go and park up a creek and see who gets laughed at. I won't hear the laughs because I'll be out at the reef having a good time !

[Tangles]

Old saying, safest thing afloat is a ping pong ball, anything else the ocean needs to be respected,

A bigger boat doesnt mean your safe or immune offshore, you just have a better chance assuming your skipper knows his stuff... as for people who push the boundaries, well that puts others at risk to rescue you because of a bad choice

gets down to common sense; the sea is a cruel girlfriend sometimes;; id rather be with a competent skipper who knows the sea in a smaller boat than some cowboy in a big boat anyday, because that cowboy thinks his offshore rig can handle it because it says so on the brochure...

[Plastic_Magic]

I think venturing out to douglas in anything below 17 foot is ridiculous but anything over is perfectly fine as long as the boat is reliable and has a good skip and all the safety equipment needed. Douglas shoals is one of the safer places to venture for great fishing as you have North West island to go if mother nature decides to give you a fright. As with the fuel capacity not all boats need 300 litres of fuel to go that far.

Cheers Plastic_Magic

[rumy1]

I think venturing out to douglas in anything below 17 foot is ridiculous but anything over is perfectly fine as long as the boat is reliable and has a good skip and all the safety equipment needed. Douglas shoals is one of the safer places to venture for great fishing as you have North West island to go if mother nature decides to give you a fright. As with the fuel capacity not all boats need 300 litres of fuel to go that far.

Good on ya mate .... but like everyone I asked today, they virtually all said the same as you have just said.
Looks like I'm not the idiot here Kerry !!!

Reasons why people venture out further than they used to

1. The boats are more seaworthy these days - average to average - there are exceptions ok !
2. Engines are more reliable, it is rare to have a modern motor breakdown compared to the old ones. (from a fishing magazine)
3. We have pretty accurate weather reports now.
4. We have GSP units and good sonar systems, local charts and internet forums to share our knowledge.
5. We use heaps less fuel so this reduces weight problems for venturing further out.
6. There are alot more boaties and VMR support - weather reports on radio.
7. Much more safety rules and boat safety features .... epirb, log ons, fire extinquishers etc
8. What ever else .........

[Kerry]

Perhaps there a lot more idiots then I thought?

Plastic magic! You ever been to Douglas in a 17 boat? From Gladstone? Is your comment as in "Would do" or "Have done"?

But it would appear it's technology and (over) confidence that is the guiding component?

So a couple of comments and questions :)

What WAS the actual weather report on the day this vessel sunk?
GPS was never going to do anything constructive was it?
Radio failed due to batteries being drowned but in any case this area is on the verge of VHF coverage as it is.
More safety rules were not going to prevent this incident.

These people were EXTREMELY lucky and this is about the only lucky point in all of this worth remembering.

Regards, Kerry.

[rumy1]

My belief is, if he had a transom door fitted instead of leaving a gapping hole there he probably would not of had any problems. I would not have done what he done and the results speak for themselves.

[Kerry]

Hindsight? Ain't it a wonderfull thing?

[fishing111]

Perhaps there a lot more idiots then I thought?

Plastic magic! You ever been to Douglas in a 17 boat? From Gladstone? Is your comment as in "Would do" or "Have done"?

But it would appear it's technology and (over) confidence that is the guiding component?

So a couple of comments and questions :)

What WAS the actual weather report on the day this vessel sunk?
GPS was never going to do anything constructive was it?
Radio failed due to batteries being drowned but in any case this area is on the verge of VHF coverage as it is.
More safety rules were not going to prevent this incident.

These people were EXTREMELY lucky and this is about the only lucky point in all of this worth remembering.

Regards, Kerry.


Kerry not all 17 foot boats are the same, i would rather be out in for an eg/ a Ocean Cylinder 17 footer, than a boat a few feet longer, that togeather with someone who knows his shit. To compare a boat by its length alone in regard to its sea-keeping qualities is quite a stupid remark.Its how a boat is fitted out and the person behind wheel that counts, not if someones boat is 3-6 feet longer therfore its a better and safer boat.

[Kerry]

Look if you think this is the place to take or suggest it is ok to run a 17 foot single engine vessel such as this with 4 POB to to this type of place then you honestly have no background on the area, none what so ever.

This is the point of the discussion paul251 along with rumy1 suggesting his 5.4m would be suitable for the job.

Quite frankly this type of thinking is going to eventually be fatal, it's really only a matter of time based on people's attitudes and there ghunho attitude.

And paul you can split hairs all you like with whatever makes/models/styles you like it still does not replace common sense, which many these days want to call "adventure" or something similar.

This vessel should never have been there in the first place and neither should rumy's and it's only hero's who would suggest otherwise. End of story.

This attitude will see more incidents until one day you will have legislation thrown in your face preventing people from their own stupidity and recklessness. That won't be a good day but then it only takes a few idiots to stuff the whole show.

Regards, Kerry.

[fishing111]

Kerry maybe you should re-read my post, I don't think you grasped it. I agree with what a lot of you have said above,but also it needs to be said that there are 17 foot boats and then there are 17 foot boats. Obviously the Haines was not up to the job, but to put a blanket statement out there that 17 foot boats are not safe is stupid, and thats not splitting hairs.

[polky]

Rummy1 Iagree with your thoughts.I own a 5mtr signature 3mths old and have been to Douglas twice, and got home safe. And not by luck but knowing the conditions and 10years of fishing the reefs.When we head out there are 3 boats mine,5.5mtr savage and a 5.2mtr haines hunter,2 people in each boat,and we have fished lamont,fitzroy,patch,shoals,sykes and a few reefs out from 1770.I have fished Douglas twice in my boat and at least a dozen times in other boats ranging from 5 to 6.5mtrs, most times we have been out, parked up on douglas have been boats of 5mtrs and bigger. Now I know Iam not a DH,hero or gungho,Kerry stick with your thoughts but stop your crap of calling people names when they dissagree with you. Fishos be real how many people have been out wide in boats around the 5.5mtr.

[Kerry]

Hey polky you can do whatever you wish but just because you do it does not remove the idiot tag!

Quite frankly there's a lot more idiots than I first thought and appears to be on the increase. Somebody is going to become unstuck in a big way, it's only a matter of when, just make sure it's not you?

But of course we have a few here who think it can not happen to them and that is not a good sign, not a good sign at all.

[Plastic_Magic]

Kerry

I have ventured to Douglas, Habberfeild, Morseby and every time i was safe. Not all 17 foot boats are uncapable. Its not the mater of is the boat good enough its weather the skip, motor,electronics are good enough. Any boat can handle any seas its weather you drive the boat to suit the conditions. I would feel much more safe in my own boat then in a bigger boat with any body else driving. So weather you have got the hint not all can have a big boat. All we want to do is get out there and catch some good fish.

Plastic_Magic

[disorderly]

Kerry

Its not the mater of is the boat good enough its weather the skip, motor,electronics are good enough. Any boat can handle any seas its weather you drive the boat to suit the conditions.

Plastic_Magic

Hmmmm...Not quite sure about that

[Kerry]

...... Not too sure about plastics experience to make such statements either. Quite frankly I find plastic's comments more talk than anything else!

[polky]

Kerry I agree with what you say in regards to some people pushing there boats to the limit.What I disagree with is a 17ft boat should never head to Douglas.Guys if we do our homework,check weather reports (bom and Bouy weather) all safety gear is correct radios work, travel with sister boat,dual batteries, and before we hit the boat ramp jump on the net and check what Heron is blowing anymore than 10knts foreget it stay in close. I have been at Douglas with 10knt breeze beautifull this is at 10am weather report comes up winds reaching 10/154knts 1.2mtr swell in the arvo, Iam gone , don,t wait to see, there is my warning deckie says your joking what a waste of fuel money.Reply me skip decission is made shoals here we come.Kerry I hope people read these threads and realize boats can sink,but with common sense and good planning,area knowledge, fishos will have many a safe and fruitfull fishing trip to Douglas and all the other reefsout there. By the way fishos don,t everbody start flogging Douglas now theres a artificial reef. Polky

[Edencraft]

The size of the vessel has very little to do with it's ability to handle any given sea condition, there is a race called the Mini Transat where 6.5m single handed sail boats race accross the atlantic from France to the USA. People have rowed accross the whole bloody Pacific, Shacklton took 4 people in a timber dingy 600nm in the arctic on a resue mission when his boat was crushed by ice. Far more important to have a good skipper than a big boat. My issue is that a lot of the people getting a long way offshore have very little experience and becuase of this are an accident waiting to happen .

[polky]

154 knts your on your own pal, Iam sure I ment 10/15knots. Polky.