Boating Industry Standards Not

[Col_s]

I am starting to get really annoyed that there are no regulations in the boat building industry regarding the building of new boats.>:(
It is too easy for anyone with the desire, to build a boat and sell it to the public.
Why should this industry be any different to others?
I have made a bit of noise about it to certain people but I have a feeling it is all falling on deaf ears or it will be too long before anything is done.::)
We have been waiting for 7 months to have another shed approved….Go figure:-/
The only thing that has really happened is the Australian Builders Plate and I know that a lot of these are fitted to boats without much consideration to Australian standards going in to it. :-X
This will be a problem when there is a fatality.
.
Anyone have any ideas on the best way to get something happening before another ten years tick by?

Cheers Col

[juju]

I have 3 licences to do the one job....Gov works in strange ways....how many have got into the water tank bit..im seeing some real dodgy setups with them......i bet you wouldnt be allowed to build the shed youself without some licence;D

[kingtin]

.
Anyone have any ideas on the best way to get something happening before another ten years tick by?

Cheers Col

Use the media Col, if you can.

kev

[blaze]

maybe all "first build boats", the first off the floor should be checked and certified as up to "survey standard", boats there after could be randomly checked to make sure that standard is maintained. Vehicles need to be certified, why not boats.
cheers
blaze

[just_cruisin]

Cole,
Not trying to cause an argument, although it seems as though you are not happy with the time it has taken to get building / planning approval for your new shed ?
Do you really want the same situation to arise when trying get a boat out the door?
If someone with a bit of time on there hands, who has the ambition and drive to build there own platey (or fibreglass) boat, i say good for them!
I hear your concern for peoples safety, although once you get the regulations ball rolling, i belive it will get way out of hand, and before you know it, boats will have to be designed for the accessiblity of wheel chairs and blind folk(jokes) but you know what I mean.
I agree things could be changed, to make sure boats have a certain level of sea-worthiness before they can be registered, although it could easily get way out of hand.
Just my thoughts :)

[Col_s]

maybe all "first build boats", the first off the floor should be checked and certified as up to "survey standard", boats there after could be randomly checked to make sure that standard is maintained. Vehicles need to be certified, why not boats.
cheers
blaze


Blaze,

That's right ,there are lots of things like that, that should happen.

Newcomers should be checked out before they start.....but what I'm getting at is who is going to do this??

[Col_s]

Cole,
Not trying to cause an argument, although it seems as though you are not happy with the time it has taken to get building / planning approval for your new shed ?
Do you really want the same situation to arise when trying get a boat out the door?
If someone with a bit of time on there hands, who has the ambition and drive to build there own platey (or fibreglass) boat, i say good for them!
I hear your concern for peoples safety, although once you get the regulations ball rolling, i belive it will get way out of hand, and before you know it, boats will have to be designed for the accessiblity of wheel chairs and blind folk(jokes) but you know what I mean.
I agree things could be changed, to make sure boats have a certain level of sea-worthiness before they can be registered, although it could easily get way out of hand.
Just my thoughts :)


The shed thing has nothing to do with it except it needs approval ,but boats don't need any approval ......unless survey.
I'm talking more about Joe blog just going out building boats and selling them to the public without having to do a thing about it.

Cheers Col

[DR]

i really doubt there is much you can do. it will need these boats to fail regularly, causing injury or death before something is done.
i think most certificates/licences these days can be easily obtained if you know the way to do it, & a lot are not worth the paper they are written on.
knew a fella who got a builders gold card by working in real estate & then as a builders salesman for a few years, sat an exam & got the gold card, never picked up a hammer in his life, sure as hell would not want him building my house..

If,like a lot of trades, they have changed the way they train apprenticeships & doing some kind of a TAFE course which gets you a certificate of some sort.. they probably know how to weld ali & how to use a computer, then all they need is access to a program that designs boats ( forget that they don't know how it is really done ) & next thing you know we have 'Dodgey Brothers Boats & Biscuit Tins' up & running..

[Wahoo]

Blaze,

That's right ,there are lots of things like that, that should happen.

Newcomers should be checked out before they start.....but what I'm getting at is who is going to do this??


well if there is some reg for boat builders just make sure they are alot better than the QBSA, good enough to take your MONEY but will do jack shit when something does go wrong>:(, just be another fee for a boatbuilding indistury $$$$$$$$$$$

Daz

[Crocodile]

The last thing that we need is greater gov regulation.
The push for regs is driven by the big boat builders who want to eliminate the smaller makers.
Remember, these corporations build the boats thet they want us to buy, not the boats that we want to use.
My boat is a Webster Twinfisher which is really very good, if the big corporations have there way there would no way that Webster would survive given the cost of compliance.
Who would enforce the regulations not the gov. they cannot even control jetskis!.

[Col_s]

The last thing that we need is greater gov regulation.
The push for regs is driven by the big boat builders who want to eliminate the smaller makers.
Remember, these corporations build the boats thet they want us to buy, not the boats that we want to use.
My boat is a Webster Twinfisher which is really very good, if the big corporations have there way there would no way that Webster would survive given the cost of compliance.
Who would enforce the regulations not the gov. they cannot even control jetskis!.


Croc,
I am not a big boatbuilder and there is nothing wrong with most well known boatbuilders....that's not my point and I am not one for over regulating at all, but there should be something in place to protect the public so they know who they are dealing with.
Some people do things the correct way and others don't give a shit. I have been in this industry a long time and get a bit sick of some of the popup builders I see that think it's all too easy.

Col

[Fish Guts]

Col,

I am really in the dark when it comes to the regulations one must follow in commercial boat building. Could you explain what a company would have to do legally in order to build a boat and sell it to a punter who walks in the door. You mentioned the Australian builders plate, what other mechanisms are in place to ensure builders arent selling potentially unseaworthy boats to unsuspecting buyers ? I have followed F&B's previous articles mentioning whether or not new boat tests have adhered to Australian standards ect(have also read F&B's stance on staying out of the debate which is totally understandable). What standards are currently in place ? i.e floatatoin , stability ?

regards

fish guts

[cormorant]

A tough one this.

I hate seeing nieve people ripped off but that is pretty much life.

I hate even more when regulations put false expensive barriers and make extra hurdles for business with no benefit to the product and the only benefit being to restrict manufacturers competition. These rules , regulations and cards or plates give us the Public a false sense of security that out politicians, legal guys or industry are looking out for us when in fact all they generally do is produce rules that protect themselves. Just look at building claims , strata process or the whole fair trading deal. I won't even mention the telecom or banking ombudsman or so on but at least they have the ability to enforce penaltys against a corporation to a point.

Without competition inovations slows and prices rise as industry protects it's margins.

Many of these quasi organisation stifle competition right down to the CPA certified practising accountabnts to the real estate institute- don't even let me start on them!!!!!!!!

Cost of administering some of these stsndards for a small start up company is huge and that is what the big guys work on as per unit cost it isn't much for them.

In all these rules most are to protect the industry not the public and I think the Gold card is a perfect example. In all these rules it is in there administration and enforcement that makes them either good or bad. Most are totally useless as the penalties are either pathetic or unenforceable and you only have to look at the building industry a few good guys and the rest are halfwits and frauds. I know some great builders etc and they are not great because they have a card they are great because of their business ethics,cvommunication, sense of pride and ability to get the job done to the correct standards and realise when they don't have the skill so they employ someone that does. They rarely have disputes that aren't settled with a handshake- just the sort of blokes they are- but they are very rare unlike the scum who go round ripping off Grannies etc etc.

A builders plate is only any good if it is a true practical standard basis for your application and the person who attaches it is aware , honest and responsible. If a big stick approach is ever to work the stick needs to have some clout and needs to be funded sufficiently for the enforcement to be fairly and swiftly applied.

Pigs will fly before that happens and it will be a system of other boat builders dobbing people in for non compliance because no one knowledgeable ever set up a decent system of inspection or enforcement. ISO and Lloyds at least force someone to hav ethe knowledge and have it independantly audited to carry the rating.

In the end it is always buyer beware so make yourself a knowledgeable buyer and if a small builder is doing a good boat check it all out and go for it. Don't be sold on the bigger guys just because they have a fancy bagde or goldcard as it is often just a whimsical minimum standard themn pumped up to be used as a markeing tool by a association of companies!!!

Guess I'm just a cynic and hope I remain that way especially since in a previous career I set up an small industry organisation that now does all the bad things mentioned above.

C

[cbs]

Col,

How far do you want to go?

Do you want each and every design to be documented and certified?

Who will inspect the build process? Self certified or third party?

The public is already protected, by means of liability. Safety is also addressed by the safety equipment requirements. ie, if the boat breaks or sinks, then the people on board have a chance.

Please keep in mind, that the construction of survey vessels less than 6m measured length is a similar idea. A 5.9m survey boat may be built in the same way as a pleasure boat. No design plans required.

Boats sold in Europe, require CE certification. CE is not a standard in itself, but requires that boats plans be certified by a notified body, and that the builder signs a "Declaration of Conformity" to go with it. Nobody will come aboard each boat if there is a problem.

I too see shoddy work on occaision in this industry, and some of it comes from the big players more often than not. The small family owned businesses are the ones that are more likely to be doing it right.

I don't have the answers you are looking for as the solution, but if you are really want to get something happening, then the NMSC, BIAQ or marine safety qld are your first steps, then they need to all agree..and get the rest of the country to agree..and that gives me a headache......

Stuff like this takes years to develop, the Survey side of things is in redevelopment at the moment, and has been for several years, with several more to go.......Will we end up with something better? I don't know.


cbs

[Col_s]

Col,

I am really in the dark when it comes to the regulations one must follow in commercial boat building. Could you explain what a company would have to do legally in order to build a boat and sell it to a punter who walks in the door. You mentioned the Australian builders plate, what other mechanisms are in place to ensure builders arent selling potentially unseaworthy boats to unsuspecting buyers ? I have followed F&B's previous articles mentioning whether or not new boat tests have adhered to Australian standards ect(have also read F&B's stance on staying out of the debate which is totally understandable). What standards are currently in place ? i.e floatatoin , stability ?

regards

fish guts


Fish guts...........All someone has to do is fill out and attach a builders plate.

Nothing else that I know of.

Col

[finding_time]

Col

If you need something done you'll have to do it yourself!!! THIS IS THE WAY IT WORKS THESE DAYS!

I reckon you and other recognized builders ( riptide amm noble, etc.) are going to have to form a organization (eg, Australian plate boat builders assn.) then you have to write your own standards, then lobby the government to accept these standards as the new Aus standards. It's a long time consumming road but it can be done. We did something similar in our industry about 15 years ago.

Ian

[Col_s]

Col,

How far do you want to go?

Do you want each and every design to be documented and certified?

Who will inspect the build process? Self certified or third party?

The public is already protected, by means of liability. Safety is also addressed by the safety equipment requirements. ie, if the boat breaks or sinks, then the people on board have a chance.

Please keep in mind, that the construction of survey vessels less than 6m measured length is a similar idea. A 5.9m survey boat may be built in the same way as a pleasure boat. No design plans required.

Boats sold in Europe, require CE certification. CE is not a standard in itself, but requires that boats plans be certified by a notified body, and that the builder signs a "Declaration of Conformity" to go with it. Nobody will come aboard each boat if there is a problem.

I too see shoddy work on occaision in this industry, and some of it comes from the big players more often than not. The small family owned businesses are the ones that are more likely to be doing it right.

I don't have the answers you are looking for as the solution, but if you are really want to get something happening, then the NMSC, BIAQ or marine safety qld are your first steps, then they need to all agree..and get the rest of the country to agree..and that gives me a headache......

Stuff like this takes years to develop, the Survey side of things is in redevelopment at the moment, and has been for several years, with several more to go.......Will we end up with something better? I don't know.


cbs

How far do I want to go??? I believe there should at least be something in place, as you would know at the moment there is js.
I understand the survey side of things, have done a few over the years but I'm not talking about that..... at least there is something in place ....whether it's right or wrong is another story.
How is the public protected if the builder doesn't have liability insurance?

Col

[Fish Guts]

col,

I would have thought that one would have to be a qualified shipright to build it ? what's the talk about positive flotation ect, is it mandatory ? and what about safety capacity labels or stamps, engine capacity ect. how is that done ?

cheers

fish guts

[Col_s]

Col

If you need something done you'll have to do it yourself!!! THIS IS THE WAY IT WORKS THESE DAYS!

I reckon you and other recognized builders ( riptide amm noble, etc.) are going to have to form a organization (eg, Australian plate boat builders assn.) then you have to write your own standards, then lobby the government to accept these standards as the new Aus standards. It's a long time consumming road but it can be done. We did something similar in our industry about 15 years ago.

Ian

Thanks Ian

Probably the best advise so far.......


The standards issue has been raised years ago to certain people but nothing ever comes of it.

Col

[Col_s]

col,

I would have thought that one would have to be a qualified shipright to build it ? what's the talk about positive flotation ect, is it mandatory ? and what about safety capacity labels or stamps, engine capacity ect. how is that done ?

cheers

fish guts


No not at all.

Positive flotation in boats under 6 mtrs is mandatory.

It should be done with a qualified Naval architect.

Col

[cormorant]

All this regulation will do nothing unless it is understandable to Mr Public . We still have boats being sold by dealers that are not suitable for the use the newby is buying it for. Just look at the number of bowriders out there fishing outside the heads. If everyone was ethical and reputable and knew their product it would all be OK. Industry associations are nothing without a sinking fund and insurance to cover rouge members- if solicitors can't manage themselves and a indemnity fund god only help us with boat builders and salesman.

Plates would need to state suitable usage of boat design as well or what itr was dsigned to do. Just float or to cross and ocean. No point having a boat that looks like it will cross and ocean if it was meant as a canal boat and only tack welded together.

I have a bit of common sense or think I have so I like the opportunity to assess and possibly purchase from small manufacturers. Some of the big guys have been pulling boats with known bad habits out of the same moulds or from the same tinny designs and they call it a proven design. A weight in numbers sort of arguement. Then you have them literally writing advertorials in boating magazines and on TV shows otherwise they'll threaten to withdraw their advertising dollars.

Modern Naval arcitechure can give up some of the secrets on boats but boy are they expensive in analysising a habit of a boat be it good or bad and trying to apply it to another design. They still have trouble assessing cat designs as they still don't have definative factors on them in regards to sea keeping even with all the computer power at their fingertips. A lot of naval arcitechure falls down as they simply don't have the resource database.

Maybe we need a builders plate on each individual person. Born 1956, Walked 1959, passed gullability test in 1965 grade 3, passed common sense 1971, wobbly left knee 1981, etc

Basic minimum standards are a good thing but only if enforced. I'm undecided as to what point in the chain they should be enforced manufacture or retail but they are necessary to save our resources (health , coast guard, courts , police etc) on idiots that have no idea and sink their boat , put people at risk or possibly injure people. When you look to buy a boat it just like looking at a resume of a prospective employee. You have to look at what's true whats real and what fits in with your business needs along with what you can afford. It is all a compromise and I've have employees that prove that theory and boats as well


Pel

[megafish71]

Col, I don't want to rain on your parade or infact step on anybodies toes, but is there a particular boat builder your dirty on, or is it the whole industry. Correct me if Im wrong, If I was suitably qualified for the fabrication ( or hired somebody who was) of a vessel and had plans drawn up by a qualified Naval architect, had the hull router cut by say smorgans and welded this togeather finished the boat and sold it or offered others for sale, and started a business this way. What would I be doing wrong. BTW I am not doing this, nor am I going to, but this is how people start business, and things grow from there. GS Marine started from Gary's back shed and I wonder how many others have started from such humble beginings.

Indeed an Australian plate boat builders assn or something similar to introduce a specific standard that boats had to be built to would be of great advantage to the industry and public.

Ron

[blaze]

Blaze,

That's right ,there are lots of things like that, that should happen.

Newcomers should be checked out before they start.....but what I'm getting at is who is going to do this??
Hi Col
I see it as the role of Marine and Safety of each state working under a national system. We already have the system in place to do this for vessels that need to be assest for survey, It would need more staff to be employed but not that many more as there is not that many boat designs being churned out. The cost to the builder would only be about $1000 on the first vessel. The random chcks I propose could be paid for by the goverment from/part funded by the rego of boats (better than going into consoidate revenue)
For all the people that think we are over regulated, remember all the boats we read about with sub standard build issues, cracks from poor design, porposeing hulls, I need a fin issues. We read it on here every week.
I feel all Col is pursueing is an attempt to lift the standard of vessels and make sure they are safe for intended purpose.
Hope you find an avenue to persue your frustations and wish you all the best in your endevours. There is a time and place for regulation and this is an area of need in my opinion
cheers
blaze

[cbs]

Col, I don't want to rain on your parade or infact step on anybodies toes, but is there a particular boat builder your dirty on, or is it the whole industry. Correct me if Im wrong, If I was suitably qualified for the fabrication ( or hired somebody who was) of a vessel and had plans drawn up by a qualified Naval architect, had the hull router cut by say smorgans and welded this togeather finished the boat and sold it or offered others for sale, and started a business this way. What would I be doing wrong. BTW I am not doing this, nor am I going to, but this is how people start business, and things grow from there. GS Marine started from Gary's back shed and I wonder how many others have started from such humble beginings.
Ron

You would be doing nothing wrong, but the NA's are only one part of the solution (or problem - depends who you ask).

Most of the fly by nighters I've come across, couldn't read a set of plans if there life depended on it, so tend to be the ones swapping 6060 for 6061 'cause its cheaper or using materials designed for non-structural members in structural applications. Lots of ways they are going to cut corners if they want to, so how do you police such activities other than inspecting on a per boat basis.

On the bigger boats, I know a couple of builders that will build with the appropriate survey paper trail, to cover the basic platform, which is a good way to do things.

One thing that frustrates me, is seeing builders advertise that they are building to "Survey Standard" when in fact, they don't have a clue what that entails.

Unless there is a paper trail for that particular boat, ie stamped approved plans, surveyors inspections, then they should't be believed.

cbs

[BM]

Should we not then apply the same regulatory practices to lots of the junk landing on our shores from China etc courtesy in some measure to that "wonderful' institution called ebay??????

How much of the stuff sold on ebay is complete rubbish yet its still sold and people still get dudded.

The marine industry is perhaps too small an industry to consider appropriate standards and enforce them. As you mention Col, yep its completely unregulated, across the board. I have found working in that unregulated environment frustrating if you are the type to do the right thing (or produce a good product in your case) and not screw people (repairs/servicing and used boat sales is the direction I am coming from).

One thing I have learnt in business that really stands out and is quite pertinent here is this: "Don't worry what the next bloke in the industry is doing. Worry about your own products/services". I had that said to me a few years back and I consider that extremely important because time spent worrying about "the others' is time lost improving ones own business.

Cheers

[SunnyCoastMark]

Hey Col,
If you think Boats are bad - you should try the Box Trailer industry. I work as a manager for one of the biggest box trailer manufacturers in Australia and I sympathise with your concerns.

With Box Trailers, any joe wannabee can buy himself a mig welder, a secondhand guillo and brake press, set up in his shed at home and away he goes. Most of these guys build cheap rubbish, using second grade materials, even secondhand steel, that has been salvaged from elsewhere! Components are scrounged from anywhere.

The answer we came up with, was to raise the entry level by introducing products and manufacturing processes that could not be duplicated by Mr. Joe Wannabee.

You have to keep a big gulf between you and "them".

It has taken us 15 years to get ourselves into this position and we have seen dozens, if not close to 100 other "wanabees" come and go in that time.

PM me and I'll gladly give you a bit more info. You would also be most welcome to come and tour our factory.

Mark.

[Col_s]

Col, I don't want to rain on your parade or infact step on anybodies toes, but is there a particular boat builder your dirty on, or is it the whole industry. Correct me if Im wrong, If I was suitably qualified for the fabrication ( or hired somebody who was) of a vessel and had plans drawn up by a qualified Naval architect, had the hull router cut by say smorgans and welded this togeather finished the boat and sold it or offered others for sale, and started a business this way. What would I be doing wrong. BTW I am not doing this, nor am I going to, but this is how people start business, and things grow from there. GS Marine started from Gary's back shed and I wonder how many others have started from such humble beginings.

Indeed an Australian plate boat builders assn or something similar to introduce a specific standard that boats had to be built to would be of great advantage to the industry and public.

Ron


Ron,
I am not dirty on any one. I just think that there should be some sort of standard for boat building for the reco's..
If you want to do as you describe above.... that is fine .....everyone has to start somewhere......but you should have to qualify somehow before hand.
I can't wire up a house or write a roadworthy certificate out or sell a vehicle without a safety certificate.........but anyone can build a boat and sell it to the public????


Col

[PADDLES]

Here's a consumer's perspective on this issue.

When I buy a car, it has to be built to ADR's, inspected to confirm it's roadworthyness and is continually under the scrutiny of the authorities for it's entire life on the road.

When I get a house built, it's designed/certified by an engineer to australian standards. It's design is approved and checked for compliance with local authority requirements. It is built by a registered builder in a regulated industry.

When I buy any gas/electrical equipment to put in the new house it's been fully tested for compliance with australian and local authority standards. It can only legally be installed by an approved, certified person in a regulated industry.

When I get sick, get a sore tooth, buy a beer, do my tax return, the list go's on, I turn to a registered person in a regulated industry.

Now when I go and buy my new boat, which is possibly the second biggest investment in my life (next to my house) and my very life depends on the performance of this investment each time I use it. I buy it from an industry that is totally unregulated (for recreational users) from the retail level to the manufacturing level.

Doesn't this seem a bit strange?

How many stories do we read on this forum about consumers getting stitched up over the purchase of their new or second hand boat. Regulation would definitely help I reckon. But like 'finding time' has said it will have to start from within the industry itself. It is true however that regulation protects both the consumer and also the industry it is regulating.

[finga]

Yep, well said Paddles.
Col I can really see the frustration that must be apparent within the better boat builders fraternity.
Seems strange to this little black duck that someone can set up shop, build a boat and flog it off and need no formal qualifications or requirements where others need a licence to mow a lawn, build a fence or put a laundry cupboard in.

In my trade as a simple old sparky I needed 3 or 4 licences to operate as a business. Seems like something is astray somewhere in my eyes.

[saurian]

Col , not sure if I'm on the right track , but tradesmen have to be licenced in Qld
and some other states.
In W.a and Nt , no bsa licences exist.
Thus the trades compete with an unregulated bunch of part timers etc...
Sounds a bit like the boating industry .....
The consumer gets what they pay for normally.
I've worked in both systems and the licenced system is better for the real tradesman and his business.
If the tradesman does a really bodgy job , he may risk his licence.
But to get a licence in the first place , the tradesman needs to prove his/her ability to an inspector and show some level of financial backing ( depending on licence).
And yes getting a licence is a pain in the arse , but it seems to stop all the fly by nighters and part timers .
Not sure about who to talk to about starting a boat building licence but...??
But I think it would help a few of the real boatbuilders out there if a licence as such was implemented.
Ta

[megafish71]

Ron,
I am not dirty on any one. I just think that there should be some sort of standard for boat building for the reco's..
If you want to do as you describe above.... that is fine .....everyone has to start somewhere......but you should have to qualify somehow before hand.
I can't wire up a house or write a roadworthy certificate out or sell a vehicle without a safety certificate.........but anyone can build a boat and sell it to the public????


Col

Sorry Col, I just didn't understand what it was you were trying to say in your first post. I agree that a standard of some discription should be introduced into the industry. I spose the old saying "a fool and his money are easily parted" is what the vermon building and selling substandard products are relying on.

Ron

PS: How did you go looking at those ally trailers on the weekend.

[Col_s]

Sorry Col, I just didn't understand what it was you were trying to say in your first post. I agree that a standard of some discription should be introduced into the industry. I spose the old saying "a fool and his money are easily parted" is what the vermon building and selling substandard products are relying on.

Ron

PS: How did you go looking at those ally trailers on the weekend.


Ron,
It's easier to say things then to type them ;D

They are coming up next Saturday so I'll be in touch.

Col

[dnej]

The trailer industry,as mentioned,is self regulating,apart from when you need to fit brakes etc.
There has already been accidents,from incorrect engineering,from a well known manufacturer.I personally, have seen a home made trailer,that was very much " under engineered",and we on the road,are subjected to that carelessness.

I spent many hours trying to locate a boat builder to do modifications to my boat,and ended up with Col,on recommendation.

But if I had wanted to buy a new one,I would have been disappointed,if I found out no real standard applied,as to the structural integretary .

I assumed there was a standard already,so there you go.

Col, an association.would be well worth putting in place,and then a builder would become a member of the "Plate Builders Association" ,and advertise accordingly.

As a group,you would set your own standards,utilising external professional advice,I would expect. An association ,you would be proud to be a member of,and to use for promoting your business accordingly.

For example,in my field,it is the Financial Planning Association, who set the high standards,and I am a member of said association,and pay for that right.
Regards David

[SgBFish]

Col there already has been a recent tragedy. I would use this as leverage. I would make a submission to the coroner (it may be too late) but at least you would be on the record that no regulations are in place.
Make something positive come from this tragedy.

“The families of five people killed when an immigration department boat capsized heard on Monday during an inquest in far north Queensland the vessel was poorly designed and lacked safety equipment.
All five people aboard Malu Sara died when the immigration vessel sank on its 74km journey across open seas from Saibai Island to Badu Island, in the Torres Strait, on October 15, 2005.
The six-metre aluminium-hulled patrol boat was carrying two immigration agents and three local residents when it vanished.
The Malu Sara was one of six vessels purpose-built by Cairns-based boat builders Subsee Australia - now in receivership - for the then Immigration, Multicultural and Indigenous Affairs Department.
The fleet was launched by then immigration minister Amanda Vanstone on August 26, 2005, and issued a seaworthy notice on September 2 - only a month before the tragedy.
But at the inquest at Thursday Island's courthouse, an investigator from the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) said tests on the remaining boats found they were not seaworthy.
He said tests on one boat saw it capsize just minutes after water was pumped into it.
He outlined problems with the construction of the vessel and safety equipment on board, including that it had no navigational chart or sea anchor.
The remaining five vessels were impounded indefinitely after they failed almost every standard safety and construction test after the tragedy.
An investigation by ATSB, which reported in May last year, concluded that it was a "tragedy waiting to happen".
The Malu Sara was never found.
The inquest, presided over by Queensland coroner Michael Barnes, is set down for two weeks.”
© 2007 AAP (http://news.brisbanetimes.com.au/action/displayCopyright?source=AAP)
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Scott

[seatime]

SgBFish, that case was indeed a terrible tragedy, though a 'standard' may not have seen things turn out any different. Those six vessels were "commonwealth ships" and so were exempt from any Qld survey inspections. They were supposed to have been built to a complementary standard, but no survey, inspection or testing was conducted, the builders own calculations were taken as true ???.
A big mistake as it turned out, it was as much the dept fault as no-one checked the boats during or after construction. One dept assumed the other understood the process, and no-one had any real marine experience, and the cheapest tender won the contract. There was no instuction on operating the new vessels, and the guy that signed off on those boats didn't have to drive them around the Torres Straits either.

[cabtrack]

Col- S
Would you know or be able to find out how many apprentice shipwrights are employed by the aluminium boat industry or for that matter shipwrights. I suspect they would be trained in the correct standard.and level of compatancy.If qualified shipwrights were the only people allowed to build boats to naval architects designs it may solve some of the problem.
Just a thought, Cabtrack

[Stuart]

Col

I hear you load and clear mate. I have seen plenty of alloy boats getting around built buy “NON Qualified Welders or fabricators” and yet it astounds me that any one can start up a boat building business. I could name 10 plat alloy boat builder from the top of my head that don’t hold any qualifications in the fabrication or welding industries. OK they may know how to build a boat, but do they know all there is about welding alloy and the problems associated with it. Many of these unqualified guys have built boats to survey; did you know that a qualified welder must be certified to weld to survey standard? I would hate to be the boat builder when the insurance company / police comes knocking.

Their needs to be a standard set down in order to protect the buying public or we will have more accidents like we had in the Torres straight a few years ago. Or the many cases we don’t hear about because people don’t report it or have no were to report it to. I have lost count of the alloy boats with crap workman ship, like cracked floors, cracked cabins, cracked welds around frames and bulkheads, cracked transoms, cracked fuel tanks, and lack of attention when it comes to the fine details. I strongly believe that if some standards are to be sought then all boat builders need to have their designs signed off by an independent naval architect.

Stuart

[cabtrack]

Would anyone know the extra costs involved if only licenced / ticketed tradespersons ie welders, shipwrights,auto electricians and whatever licence you need to install a fuel system under the floor of a boat.Any builders have any idear.
Cabtrack

[lippa]

all the ideas off the "plate boat builders association" are fantastic!!, but i think it still gunna have to be a "self" (for want of a better word) regulated industry, by the builders. ie col(fisher boats) barton (australian master marine) the list goes on. having a govening body body with no other intrest other than the cheuques from the boat builders is not gunna change a thing. i'm sure you know most of the quality builders col, try and form a working group to address the issues. doesn't have to be formal to start, but more builders brains are better than one.
then you also have to consider the sub let work you (boat builders) send out. there seems to be some busy boat builders out there, who are sending kits out out to get the hot work done. how could this type of opperation conform to the "plate boat builders plate"
be wonderful to see a uniform standard, but individulism doesnt count then, i dunno, over regulation can kill industry's quicker than no regulation.

cheers

lippa