Please help, my Magna sits too low in rear suspension with 900kg in tow

[cjreeves8]

Hello,
my friend and I have gones halves in a 2005 Stessl Bluewater 550 which has a tow weight, when fueled, of around 900kg. His Jeep is fine, but my Magna sits near bottom in its rear shocks and as such, is undrivable (well it drives by i'm not a twit).

Suggestions would be great :)

I can lift the trailer over the hitch, so i figure it is putting 125-175kg on the ball. Standing on the ball (85kg) doesn't have half the effect of the trailer, which tends to affirm my estimate. Is this a normal weight over the ball? The tow ball is 7cm lower on the Magna than the Jeep and then sags further under weight, so the trailer slops down to the car.

The wheels of the trailer are U-bolted on, but i'm not sure moving these forward is a good idea? I'd figure it's well balanced because it rides well with the Jeep.

The towing capacity is 1500kg! Plenty of margin. Is it just Magna's ridiculously soft suspension? Kids need to be comfy in teh back still :S

Please help :) and thanks in advance

p.s. it's really hard to get a new 4wd past the boss after already throwing money into a boat, so i've no option at present, but i'm sure this can be made to work

[Chimo]

Hi CJR..............8

Don't know if it would work or if its legal where you are? but I used to tow heavy seeders behind a ford ute with a trailer brake equiped "A" frame.

It was fitted with 13inch wheels and tyres (with hydraulic over ride brakes) and was hitched to the vehicle and the towed unit, with it very heavy tow bar was hitched to the ball mounted above the axel on the "A" frame .

There wasn't too much backing required in my situation so in your application you might have to use the Magna to launch and retrive but the A system would make road travel a lot safer and more comfortable; if its legal where you are!!

Cheers
Chimo

[cjreeves8]

Thanks for the reply Chimo. I'm in queensland and googling A frame now. Sounds like it would work, but are they expensive? If they are articulating, would make reversing good sport wouldn't it :)

[russ81]

Hows it going mate

You could also poly airbag suspension they are available from places like tjm and arb

Russ

[Chimo]

CJR.......8

They are essentially a mini trailer that carries the boat trailer's weight.

Sorry I cannot draw you a sketch on here; we need Charle's skills I fear.

Chimo

PS I thought about the poly airs, I have them on my truck and they are great but I dont know if they do them for a Magna, worth a look tho.

PPS As your going to get a bigger boat sooner or later why not just get a real tow machine like a Diesel Patrol and be ready::) and also give the tin lids a look at the county as you drive around?

[SunnyCoastMark]

G/'day,
What model/year is your magna?

If the drawbar on the trailer is "running downhill" to your car - you are putting more weight on your cars rear end than is necessary.
The first step therefore is to purchase a stepped up or gooseneck towbar tongue from a local towbar supplier. They come in varying "rises".

It is important to have the trailer riding level.

Regards,
Mark

[SunnyCoastMark]

Oh, and I once owned a brand new Misubishi Sigma Station wagon.
Had to replace the rear springs after 18months because they had sagged after towing a small box trailer (500kg)for 2000km's.

So the rear springs may require checking out.

Mark

[Sea-Dog]

Another alternative is to Load levellers.

I have a set for towing a heavy van around with my commodore. Hayman Reese type hitch (square tube). A couple of spring bars hook via chains from the towhitch (where the ball is mounted) to the A-frame of the trailer.

http://www.haymanreese.com.au/index.htm



There are also lighter weight versions available that you can fit to a standard towbar tongue. It gets mounted underneath the towball and the spring arms sit into holes in this fitting. The other ends of the spring bars are attached via chains to the drawbar of the trailer.

It works by applying a lifting force from the trailer to the back of the car and downward pressure onto the front wheels.

Imagine a couple of wheelbarrow handles attached to the back of your car. You lift up on the handles and the back of the car rises and the front lowers - thats how these weight distribution systems work.

The ideal setup is where the tow vehicle is running level, and the trailer/caravan is level or sloping slightly down at the front.

Here is a pic of the heavy duty Hayman Reese setup.

Cheers, Ross

[cjreeves8]

Thanks guys, it's a 2003 Magna, 3.5L

How much are the airbags likely to go for installed?

Gooseneck is the first thing I thought; raise it up to be equal to the Jeep, but I fear this will make minimal difference to the weight over the tow bar. Is it important to have it level for reasons other than weighting? Airbags + gooseneck sounds exy. But i'll do what's necessary and if it helps...

Will there be sufficient weight over the front wheels? I am figuring, based on leverage it couldn't be taking much more than 70-80kg off the front wheels, which sounds fine.

I think the springs should be fine, because the car has never towed before (we had the bar installed) and only ever had 2 people in it, but can check this when i get quotes for airbags

Ah getting a bigger boat and new 4bie... will happen, but that's about 2-3 years out, after raising the house

[cjreeves8]

Wow that Reece weight redistribution system is a sensible approach, by moving weight over the front wheels, it will also help with traction

I'm not going to get out of this cheap am I :(

$500 is $500 i won't be allowed to spend on fishing gear, oh well, no fun without a boat

[bay_firey]

You will need to check the Ball weight for the tow bar also.

I go tthe impression you were saying that you were putting 125 - 175kg on the tow ball ???

From memeory and previous discussion on here i think the consensous is 10% therefore with a bmt weight of 900kg you should only have about 90kg on the tow ball.

There will also be a rating on the tow bar to tell you what download you are alowed on the ball

[cjreeves8]

Hmmm if 10% should be over the ball... the the trailor may be unbalanced? I'm not keen on playing with the balance myself. Would a tow bar installation shop usually be able to help there?

A lot of options... gees

Thanks fellas

[trueblue]

Check the car manual. In the towing capacity section it should state the maximum downforce on the tow bar. If you don't exceed the maximum down force, it should not sit too low in the arse end.

It sounds like you have way too much down force. Consider weight redistribution of the boat on the trailer if that will be possible.

All other suggestions etc of modifications to the car are fruitless if you are exceeding the maximum allowable down force on the tow bar...

cheers

Mick

[nedoleboy]

mate buy some petrol,pour liberally over magna,then light 'er up.;D best thing for magnas.minister for finance will have to approve some emergency transport funding then.ned.;D

[cjreeves8]

"Check the car manual." :o :o :o I'm a dumb dumb

Manual says I MUST have a weight distributing hitch for loads over 500kg and it also says to use 10% over the ball as you guys recommend.

I wonder if that same recommendation holds for the Jeep. I want the trailer to work well for both.

Wow, this has been great info!! Thanks, I think this is the right track now

[cjreeves8]

Just thinking again... is it still important to get the gooseneck also, i.e. does the trailer have to run flat?

As for blowing my Magna up, if she won't tow i'll bloody well blow her up, but i think things are sounding good with this advice

[billfisher]

Pump up air shocks are the go. As others have said you need around 10% of the rig weight as downforce on the towball. You can try load equaliser bars also but they probably won't be sufficient on their own.

[Juzo]

mate, not sure what your trailer is set up like, but on mine, the axle is connected to a couple of bits of right angle steel about 2 foot long, these in turn are bolted to the chassis of the trailer, this way the axle can be moved forward or back, this allows the weight to be evenly distributed. If your trailer has that, all you have to do is bring the axle forward to put more weight to the back of the trailer.
cheers

og course what I mean is the axle is connected to the springs, which in turn are connected to the angle brackets, bolt to chassis, ect:-/:-/:)



Juzo

[buhky62]

G/day mate depending on the modle you have you can buy a set of pump up shocks for the rear but if the coils are not up to scratch you are putting to much pressure on the skocks and run the risk of blowing a skock bag or air line if you can afford it i reckomend putting a set of (standard +) coils and a new set of gas shocks and that should fix your problem as i have fitted this combo to many of these vehicals for towing
........BOB

[cjreeves8]

Yes my wheels are U-bolted onto the frame, so it is a relatively simple mattle to rebalance the trailer. But, I don't have any means of weighing it and getting the 10% forward. I'm hoping the towbar shop adjusts trailers.

My current plan in order is:

a) First get redistributing hitch (because the manual says its essential)
b) Reditribute trailer (hopefully these first two will solve it)
c) Raise tow ball if required (i.e. trailer angle is an issue)
d) If weight is still too rear, then airbags and by this point my wife will be ready to kill me for spending so much.

I'll be getting quotes when the shop opens soon, see what damage I'm up for. Thanks again

[FNQCairns]

First weight your trailer hitch weight, no use farting around (spending money/time) until you know what you are actually up against. I can only lift a 70kg trailer hitch without some drama and I am a barrel chested lumberjack type.

IMO then check out King springs for uprated replacement springs if you cannot safely set your hitch weight lower (bet you can). If that fails then go a leveling arrangement but doing that is a waste of time unless your springs are worthy in the first place and I guarantee that they are not, just as I would have guarantted it when the car sat new on the showroom floor.

cheers fnq

[STUIE63]

Use a set of bathroom scales to weigh the trailer at the towball the you know what the weight is and you can decide which way to go.
Stuie

[PADDLES]

g'day cj, i don't mean to sound rude but the maggy isn't going to do the job safely even though it says it can handle it in the manual, i mean you've got a reasonable sized boat there. an upgrade to a cheap fourby will save the poor magna from being flogged to death. how do ya reckon it'll go towing it out the water on a suss ramp, if you're worried about even hooking it up on the driveway at home.

[cjreeves8]

Yeh I just spoke to towbar shop and the redistributer is going to cost $430. He suggested just rebalancing and then after that it might not even be possible to use a redistributer. Maybe at that point new springs as suggested.

Yeh i would have used scales if we had some, will try source some.

Paddles, no offense taken, this is not the main vehicle, which will remain the Jeep. This will only be for Bribie, which is a nice easy ramp. I've already seeded the idea with my mrs, but i assure you 10k to upgrade will be hard to run while we're still planning no major renos.

Safety does concern me though, with a rebalanced trailer and appropriate shocks will this still be a marginal tow?

[Chimo]

Hi Cjr.....8

How many Magnas do you see on the road?
How many of those do you ever see towing anything?
How many of those that are towing were towing a boat?

Magnas always were soft in the tail end, and thats always going to be an issue as is the front wheel drive.

Weighing the pull / drawbar of the trailer can also be achieved by using a painters plank or bar set upon a car stand with say a 10 to 1 ratio ie pivot point close to trailer and use weigh scales to pull down on the other end of the plank. Multiply the weigh scale number and thats the approx weight of the trailer pull being placed on the ball.

Cheers
Chimo

[cjreeves8]

Yes point taken :'( , but a new car is not an option at this time.

So is a rebalanced trailer and new rear shocks going to make for safe towing? I don't care if i burn a clutch out... :) then I'll have no difficulty passing a new car by the boss, but I care that it's safe.

[Smithy]

Get load levellers. Around $90 for a second hand set of 4 bars. New 4 bar ones are around $190 and twin bar ones new are around $150 but you will be better off with the 4 bar ones. The big expensive Hayman Reese sort are just that, big and expensive. Hunt around the markets or car swap meets and you might get a set cheaper. My old set were only $25-$30 for hitch part and a few bucks for the bars and trailer brackets a bit later on. I saw the hitch alone 2nd hand for $47 or something the other day in a shop so they must have gone up heaps.

I first saw them being used on a blokes old Bluebird and he was towing about a 5.2m Qunnie Centre Console. They were the only thing that made that combo work. It sure sat it down in the arse. I had a 1850 kg tow kit on my VS Commodore and 585 plate boat on a single axle trailer rated to 1750 or 1800, can't remember which and a set of load levellers made it. Was quite comfortable after them if you sat in the wheel ruts of the road.

[PADDLES]

i know where you're coming from cj with the approvals from the finance minister. the magna will have to do the business for a while then. setting the trailer up the best you can will be the go. the maggy should have brakes that are up to the job, but the rear suspension sounds pretty suss. if it's a mcpherson strut at the rear then new springs are pretty cheap (should be between 150 -200 bucks a pair) plus the labour to whack em in and re-align the rear end. if you do it yourself you'll only be up for maybe 40 - 50 bucks for a rear wheel alignment.

[cjreeves8]

Thanks guys, I've got a lot of thinking to do... there hasn't been a lot of confidence in the 'ol Magna... starting to wonder if I borrow my mates car and save the money towards the future fourby. At the very least I'm going to have to think on this for a while.

[STUIE63]

Mate how old is the boat and trailer. I reckon if you get the trailer ball weight right the it might be all you need. think about it- if a 100 kg bloke stood on your towbar this would make the ar$e of your car sag. this weight is how much your trailer could be out but you need to know.. surely there is some one you know with bathroom scales
Stuie

[timddo]

MAte is that 900kg in two including trailer. If so your magna should do it fine. i towed a 4.85 trailcraft for 12months using a magna 99. Towed good. But now have sold the boat and going a little bigger. Tow vehicle is Vr commondore . Have upgraded it with king springs, poly bags, tranny cooler and new radiator.

Will be upgrading when minister gives me the node. But for now the car will do. P.S i only use the boat once a month or so. So in theory thats 12 times i drive the car a year ( not very much point buying a good car if its not getting used ) only for safety reasons.

Air bags cost $300. springs $140 , Installation aroudn $200 for the lot. Tranny cooler is $75.

i

[Dirtysanchez]

The vehicle is rated to 1500kg, I had one very similar, therefore the maximum towball down weight you can apply is 150kg (apparently)
I towed a Jayco Swan campervan with mine for 18 months and with the levellers it was OK, the swan when fully loaded up weight about 1200 kg. It answered back a bit around roundabouts, but thats about it. The 3.5 ltr engine handled it fine.

Front wheel drive is an advantage on some ramps at low tide too. Sounds to me like you need to sort out the suspension in the arse end a bit and you will be OK

Mind you, I ended up upgrading to a 4wd anyways, mainly coz I love driving on the beach, so now I take my campervan to beachy places ;D

[baitable]

hi chris, firstly congrats on the boat!!!!! having towed the boat in question, i can make a reccommendation to leave the trailer as is. The boat tows very well and as you would have noticed by now, no speed wobbles. If your really concerned - go through your avenues discussed, also try offsetting the load in the boat to behind the axel. The old jeep should always be designated tow car. I also believe that the boat motor trailer combo is also somehere in the vicinity of 1200 kg +.

You main issue in all of this is safety especially stoppping power. Just use the jeep.

[1975fflh]

Mate

I have an old ford wagon I use to tow around a n old Coxcraft Rumrunner (see the avatar) The hulls about 500kgs the motor is 150 Kgs add the gear and 110 litrse of fuel the trailer etc. and comes close to 900kgs (The ex wife calls me a fat bastard, but i can loose my weight and no matter what she does she will still be ugly) anyway I fitted a set of Load Helpers, they cost about $120.00 and theyb are great but you need leaf springs on the rear.

They fit them to 4X4s as well .

I think you can get them for coils but they work a bit different. or an air bag will do the same.

[mirage]

Weight Distribution Bars for sale on #bay $80.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Weight-Distribution-Bars-Ride-Level-Camec-4-bar_W0QQitemZ220131159985QQihZ012QQcategoryZ102703 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[dnej]

Cj,
The lads have just about covered it all. I have a good friend in the trailer manufacturing industry,so he has been a great help to me, with the same issue.

The goose neck, to get it level is important,otherwise you get that flicking motion.
If the bathroom scales show up too much weight( More than say 90 kg),undo the axle shackles( dont remove) place two bricks on the ground,behind the wheels ,some short distance away, to run into.

Mark on the trailer how far you want to move the running gear forward, then back up the trailer at more than normal backing speed,until you hit the bricks.

Running into the bricks will move the running gear forward. A centimetre at a time,makes a big difference,so weigh again,after the first move. Repeat as necessary.
Once you get the trailer level,and weighted correctly,and you still have problems,you may have to do what I did ,and fit the air bags.
Boy what a huge arse difference that made.
Now I am straight and level,and weighed correctly,with good steering,and can zoom up the highway at 110,like everyone else.

Which ever way you go, as smithy says,you need to do something,however you need to pay for it.
David

[dnej]

PS mine was a wagon as well.
DaVid