What are your thoughts on..........?

[Chine]

I have just read (once again) that the three NSW Volunteer Marine Rescue Services are in dire financial straits. They submitted a funding proposal to the NSW treasury in December 2005 and the largest of the three was actually hit with a 4% cut.>:(

Unlike the SES and RFS who are fully funded, these Marine Rescue organisations rely on the majority of their financial support through fundraising. I am unsure as to the arrangement in Qld but down here the majority of my license and registration fees go straight to the self funded NSW Waterways.

My question is.......what are your thoughts on direct contributions to these volunteer organisations?

I have no affiliation or involvement with any volunteer organisations apart from making annual contributions as an associate member. I simply believe that perhaps the efforts of the volunteers may be taken for granted.......until you need the service.

Just a thought.;)

Regards

Chine

[fishingrod]

There is a bit of a art to the way that the funding works in NSW. Its got a lot to do with the number of bases and the class of each base and its rescue vessels attached to that base.

Ill try to explain in slight laymans terms to simplify.

There are MRB (regular radio base) SARCC's (Search and Rescue Co-Ordination Centres) that typically are located at key points on the coast and are meant to have better facilities to handle major maritime disasters.
CAT 1 boats are typically inshore
CAT 2 boats are up to 7nm to sea
CAT 3 boats are up to ~14-15nm to sea.

You can add up the resourses from the RVCP, AVCG and VRA Marine and get a certain number of "points" and then state funding is split accordingly. This comes from the State Government and is general funding so needs to cover things like each groups insurance which is generally sort on the private market. The RVCP in NSW has some (slight)association with the SES so that helps with their insurance coverage. Some bases may get less than $2K a year (cash) directly from State Government depending on the way the final figure is divided up.

I have heard that 2 "affiliated" bases in NSW are no longer affliliated with their original group and have sort to get affiliated with another group. So since their original group has lost xyz number of points, their funding will probably decrease. IM NOT SAYING IN ANY WAY THAT THIS WILL ACCOUNT FOR THE 4% YOU MENTION. You need to ask where the 4% came from. Sure it might be a 4% monentary loss on last year, but their organisation might be a fraction smaller.

A portion of what NSW boaties pay the NSW Maritime (Waterways) in their fees goes into a waterways fund that is for the volunteer groups. Say there was a certain volunteer group of say 10 rescue bases, there was approx $55K available to most of these bases once approx every 7 years on the way the old funding worked. This was the case between say 1999 and 2006. Im not 100% sure on the scale or ratio now. If you run a large vessel, $55K is not enough to keep it fresh and up to date. You can spend that much just in machinery (motors) in 7 years meaning you will never have a chance to replace the boat (hull).

Ill leave my comments there for now, but will follow this post.

[nigelr]

Great post Chine, and very interesting reply fishingrod, IMHO.
Personally I think more funding should be available to these Volunteer groups from NSW Boat licences and registrations than is presently the case.
Also a higher community profile may help, these good folk volunteer their time and expertise for the common good and should as such be recognised and appreciated.
Am I right in reading that there are three such organisations active in NSW?
Perhaps they could consider some form of consolidation and thus pooling their resources and expertise as well as streamlining their management structures?
Don't know whether this is valid, doubtless they are all individual bodies with their own heritage and methodologies.
Once again, great topic IMO, will follow it with interest.
Cheers.

[fishingrod]

doubtless they are all individual bodies with their own heritage and methodologies.


The above quote is very true !
The amalgamation idea has been around for a long time. Im sure its getting closer than its ever been. But its not a simple task as you have pointed out. The AVCG and RVCP arte multi state operations. If you amalgamate in one state what happens?

Yes there is only 3 organisations in NSW. You cannot open up your own "rouge" local rescue base as you have no accredication. Yacht clubs with their own club support boats are not classed as an accredicated rescue service.

There is other annual money that is available (other than the Maritime/Waterways vessel grant) but its nothing huge. Like i said by the time insurance and other costs is taken out its very little in that each base actually gets.

There are a number of volunteer, council and community grants around which can be applied for. But its all luck. Some are dollar-for-dollar. Its not just vessels, its also buildings and facilities, towers, radios and repeaters etc that need to me maintained.

I beleive that 2 bases have recently managed to get a grant/funding via one of the recreational fishing funds to help with vessel upgrades. Which i hear is the first time that they have awarded money towards a vessels.

I can try and ellaborate on any other questions.
I generally try to keep it inderpendant of who I am and which organisation I am part of.

cheers
Rod

*edit 1205pm to fix quote marks

[Noelm]

the merge thing has been going on for ages, but no one likes a 'take over" and that is the stumbling block, there needs to be a full on merge, no one takes full charge or naming rights, but I doubt that that would ever happen, because you have two or three lots of captains/crew/administration setups/locations/vessels and so on, every one wants theirs as the top one.

[Chine]

There is a bit of a art to the way that the funding works in NSW. Its got a lot to do with the number of bases and the class of each base and its rescue vessels attached to that base.

Ill try to explain in slight laymans terms to simplify.

There are MRB (regular radio base) SARCC's (Search and Rescue Co-Ordination Centres) that typically are located at key points on the coast and are meant to have better facilities to handle major maritime disasters.
CAT 1 boats are typically inshore
CAT 2 boats are up to 7nm to sea
CAT 3 boats are up to ~14-15nm to sea.

You can add up the resourses from the RVCP, AVCG and VRA Marine and get a certain number of "points" and then state funding is split accordingly. This comes from the State Government and is general funding so needs to cover things like each groups insurance which is generally sort on the private market. The RVCP in NSW has some (slight)association with the SES so that helps with their insurance coverage. Some bases may get less than $2K a year (cash) directly from State Government depending on the way the final figure is divided up.

I have heard that 2 "affiliated" bases in NSW are no longer affliliated with their original group and have sort to get affiliated with another group. So since their original group has lost xyz number of points, their funding will probably decrease. IM NOT SAYING IN ANY WAY THAT THIS WILL ACCOUNT FOR THE 4% YOU MENTION. You need to ask where the 4% came from. Sure it might be a 4% monentary loss on last year, but their organisation might be a fraction smaller.

A portion of what NSW boaties pay the NSW Maritime (Waterways) in their fees goes into a waterways fund that is for the volunteer groups. Say there was a certain volunteer group of say 10 rescue bases, there was approx $55K available to most of these bases once approx every 7 years on the way the old funding worked. This was the case between say 1999 and 2006. Im not 100% sure on the scale or ratio now. If you run a large vessel, $55K is not enough to keep it fresh and up to date. You can spend that much just in machinery (motors) in 7 years meaning you will never have a chance to replace the boat (hull).

Ill leave my comments there for now, but will follow this post.

Fishingrod,

Thanks for your response as it introduces both facts and objectivity into the discussion.

My information has been gleaned primarily from major and local newspaper articles so I was a little concerned with the accuracy of the statements. Although invariably, where there is smoke , there is fire!

With regard to the 4%, allow me to quote;

"NSW emergency services minister Nathan Rees says this is because a Government oversight led to the patrol receiving increased funding the previous year"

You would think that there would be some allowance for inflation...or is this being completely naive?:-X

Regards

Chine

[Chine]

Great post Chine, and very interesting reply fishingrod, IMHO.
Personally I think more funding should be available to these Volunteer groups from NSW Boat licences and registrations than is presently the case.
Also a higher community profile may help, these good folk volunteer their time and expertise for the common good and should as such be recognised and appreciated.
Am I right in reading that there are three such organisations active in NSW?
Perhaps they could consider some form of consolidation and thus pooling their resources and expertise as well as streamlining their management structures?
Don't know whether this is valid, doubtless they are all individual bodies with their own heritage and methodologies.
Once again, great topic IMO, will follow it with interest.
Cheers.

Nigelr,

The three organisations are the Royal Volunteer Coastal Patrol, Australian Volunteer Coastguard and NSW Volunteer Rescue Association. One would think that it would be logical to consolidate the three organisations into one expanded unit.

Unfortunately, consolidation is always a nice political football.....be it a professional or volunteer organisation (it takes us back to Noelm's words). I think you are spot on with the reference to heritage and methodologies.

The volunteers donate their own time and money towards this service....I think it a shame that they need to also constantly chase funds to maintain infrastructure.

Regards

Chine

[Kerry]

The NSW gov appears to be going along the track of wanting control of the volunteer rescue organisations and this is very evident in the rescue helicopter area. All of a sudden these rescue organisations who have been operating very successfully for 35-40 years are being told they don't know how to operate properly, are not longer viable etc etc and hence in the helicopter area the gov have gone out of their way to call for tenders to provide the same service, the same service which has by all account been run very successfully by these volunteer organisations for many years.

It's all to do with Control!

[Chine]

The NSW gov appears to be going along the track of wanting control of the volunteer rescue organisations and this is very evident in the rescue helicopter area. All of a sudden these rescue organisations who have been operating very successfully for 35-40 years are being told they don't know how to operate properly, are not longer viable etc etc and hence in the helicopter area the gov have gone out of their way to call for tenders to provide the same service, the same service which has by all account been run very successfully by these volunteer organisations for many years.

It's all to do with Control!

G'Day Kerry,

You may well be right and the best way to wrest control is to shut down funding.

The sad thing is, at the risk of politicising the discussion, this state government has enough trouble managing existing assets as it is . The track record is appalling. :-X

They were not game to touch the Westpac RHS in our region as the very high level of direct public and corporate salary contributions to the service is indicative of the electorate's support and feeling. Our volunteer coastal patrol do a mighty job as do our RHS.

I hope you are wrong.

Regards

Chine

[gone_fishing]

The NSW gov appears to be going along the track of wanting control of the volunteer rescue organisations and this is very evident in the rescue helicopter area. All of a sudden these rescue organisations who have been operating very successfully for 35-40 years are being told they don't know how to operate properly, are not longer viable etc etc and hence in the helicopter area the gov have gone out of their way to call for tenders to provide the same service, the same service which has by all account been run very successfully by these volunteer organisations for many years.

It's all to do with Control!

your on the money ther kerry
the nsw gov has attempted to scew over the newcastle westpac helicopter service on many occasions now all over the money simple as that good old fashion cash leads our politions to attempt to justify there jobs see how than can siphon funds this happens with all volenter groups as a example a certain bush fire brigad raised funds for themselves through raffles bbqs and the like and then stripped of all funding because they were demend to have to much money

shame on our state gov one life lost is to many just to save a penny

[fishingrod]

Maybe this site is a little more QLD orientated ............... bump? .........................

[samson]

I tried once to join as a member to the tweed volunteer rescue organization but was told not to worry by one of the offices on duty as why would you want to give them 50 bucks for no reason so i left and haven't tried since, if this is their attitude no wonder their got no money.

[fishingrod]

The group at Tweed Heads is in a unusual position as they are a member of the Volunteer Rescue Association (VRA) in NSW and also part of VMRQ.

Apparently their funding is meant to be "fair" and is adjusted accordingly as they may receive money from both sides/states.

99.9% of groups will log you on if you are a non member. Being a member just means that your boat and personal details will be on file saving them asking a chain of questions over the radio. (Thats probably stating the obvious) I cant see why anyone would knock back a membership. But you can run into all types of personalities in this country !

[Fish Guts]

chine,

great topic and some very informative discussion. I would love to have the figures in front of me regarding the jobs given to both Coastguard and air sea rescue bases from the Qld water police. The amount of medivacs, vessel tows, search and rescue taskings directly from water police (not from direct vessel-coastguard radio contact) is a weekly occurence and should highlight the necessity of such a quick response service (offered at no charge at all).

What would happen if all coastguard and air sea rescue boats turned back QPS taskings and made the boys in blue do some work ? Then we'd see whos taking who for granted ?

I personally would have no qualm paying an additional fee on my registration if it went directly to volounteer marine groups.

[fishingrod]

great topic and some very informative discussion. I would love to have the figures in front of me regarding the jobs given to both Coastguard and air sea rescue bases from the Qld water police

Yes very true. Our local NSW Police LAC has their own Police Boat, but they still call our base mid week asking if we can take a car crew to XYZ. It would be nice if they could give us their credit card to refuel at the marina afterwoods !!!

Re the figures. I dont have any QLD figures. I do have some NSW assistance:ratio figures here filed away but cannot lay my hands on them.

Here is some funding and operational number figures pulled from the NSW State Rescue Board Annual report 2004/2005.
Sorry for the poor quality im taking them out of a .pdf to post them here.
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c369/fishingbasket/a.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c369/fishingbasket/b.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c369/fishingbasket/c.jpg
http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c369/fishingbasket/d.jpg