Advice needed - buying a new outboard

[DARC]

G'day all,
"AUSFISH", what better place is there to ask for people's thoughts and experiences on outboard motors and motor dealers?
My father in law is in the market for a new motor, and has asked me to have a look for dealers and some more info here in Brisy. He lives in Toowoomba and thus has limited dealer options to choose from. He's talked to people lately and seems to have his mind set on a 60hp 2stroke Mercury.
After doing a little research, I'd go with a 4stroke, or a new e-tec, and it wouldn't even need to be a Mercury, but you know what father-in-laws can be like!
The boat is a 4.5m Clark - aluminium.
Any info, thoughts, or personal experiences on this subject would be greatly appreciated!:)

Cheers DARC

[peterbo3]

Hi DARC,
Can you ask him what the Clark is rated to carry. HP & transom weight. The weight may be a factor for a 4 stroke.
The 4 strokes are probably going to be dearer that a 2 stroke but I think all the new motors are pretty good. 3 year warranty on the lot these days but Honda & Suzi are FIVE years.

[Big_unit]

I just bought a brand new Yamaha 4 stroke, everything seems to be outstanding with Yammies.

2 strokes are a thing of the past.

Cheers
James

[Spaniard_King]

James, I thought you were a Suzi man ?? what happened?

2 strokes are for people who would only use there boat a few times a year and are prepared to put up with noise and fumes. If he fits into this category fine otherwise he needs a 4 stroke and James is right, Yamaha have a very good 60hp 4 stroke.

Garry

[Big_unit]

James, I thought you were a Suzi man ?? what happened?

2 strokes are for people who would only use there boat a few times a year and are prepared to put up with noise and fumes. If he fits into this category fine otherwise he needs a 4 stroke and James is right, Yamaha have a very good 60hp 4 stroke.

Garry

Nah just backing my mate up, Zooks are good but I prefer Yammies.

Cheers
James

[disorderly]

2 strokes are a thing of the past.

Cheers
James

Dream on James.
With the amount of money being pumped into clean tech 2 strokes and the amazing results they are achieving in regards to reduction in emissions and fuel usage,I think they will be around for a long time to come.
Go the 2 stroke!

cheers Scott

[Flex]

Depends where you go with it and what you do with it.
I got myself a new 2 stroke 50hp yamaha the basic model. The main reason is for simplicity. When you go fishing in the middle of nowhere for 3 weeks the less to go wrong with an outboard the better.

With the basic 2 stroke models, you mix your own fuel, no vavles or timing belts to go wrong. no injection systems to crap emselves and no elctronics to go horribly wrong and ruin 3 weeks fishing.Plus they are nice and light aswell.
best of all they are cheap too..lol

That said, If I had a boat I were to use all the time in and around home and not take away to remote areas for long periods. I'd definitely buy a 4 stroke or a fuel injected 2 stroke. If you are boating all the time you'd be made not to get a 4.

[Big_unit]

Dream on James.
With the amount of money being pumped into clean tech 2 strokes and the amazing results they are achieving in regards to reduction in emissions and fuel usage,I think they will be around for a long time to come.
Go the 2 stroke!

cheers Scott

OK so I guess you believe the ETEC media machine, thats fine.

I spend five days a week, 10 hours a day on the water, sometimes seven days and I know four strokes are the best engine for my application.

I wonder if 2 strokes will continue to be accepted into waterways which have strict environmental guidelines ? after all an ETEC is still a 2 stroke isnt it.

Cheers
James

[disorderly]

OK so I guess you believe the ETEC media machine, thats fine.

I spend five days a week, 10 hours a day on the water, sometimes seven days and I know four strokes are the best engine for my application.

I wonder if 2 strokes will continue to be accepted into waterways which have strict environmental guidelines ? after all an ETEC is still a 2 stroke isnt it.

Cheers
James


Now,now James we dont have to start bashing the Etec again,do we.

For your 50-70 hours of boating a week a 4 stroke would no doubt suit you well.

However,many boaties take 12 months to clock up these hours.So the extra expense and complexity of a four stroke seems hard to justify.

I dont think the authorities in charge of waterways will be so ignorant as to preclude a motor soley because it is two stroke.Common sense will prevail and the motors will be judged on how "clean' they are.

I think flex has pretty well summed it up, above.

cheers Scott

[Big_unit]

Now,now James we dont have to start bashing the Etec again,do we.

For your 50-70 hours of boating a week a 4 stroke would no doubt suit you well.

However,many boaties take 12 months to clock up these hours.So the extra expense and complexity of a four stroke seems hard to justify.

I dont think the authorities in charge of waterways will be so ignorant as to preclude a motor soley because it is two stroke.Common sense will prevail and the motors will be judged on how "clean' they are.

I think flex has pretty well summed it up, above.

cheers Scott

Nice try Scott, so where did I bash ETEC's in this thread ?

2 strokes are very well known for delivering high levels of pollution directly into the water in the form of petrol hydrocarbons and 2 stroke oil, which can often be seen as that unsightly disgusting oil slick behind the boat.

How do you differentiate between one 2 stroke and another 2 stroke ? after all a 2 stroke is not a 4 stroke, and if it aint a 4 stroke its a 2 stroke.
Obviously its all black & white for me. ( Except I prefer Yamaha grey ) :D

Are you proposing that there are now three types of engines available as marine outboards ?

2 strokes
4 strokes
ETECS - Im certain these fit into the 2 stroke category, dont they ???

Cheers
James

PS - Oils aint oils unless of course its ETEC 2 stroke oil. ;D

[MyEscape]

Well I've had a 4 stroke Yamaha (60HP). Motor was ok, fairly quite but probably wouldn't boast about it. I thought services on it were expensive for the hours I did.

Then had a 30hp Yamaha 2 stroke. Nice little motor and ran like a dream. Services were not that cheap either. May be that was just in Mackay.

Now have a Mercury 115hp 2 stroke. Might use a bit of fuel but my first service through the dealer here in Gladstone was $122.00 last week! And I think that's very ok.

The 115 Merc pushing the Cruisecraft 500 Explorer so far has done around 208km (according to the GPS) for around 112 litres of fuel. I refill the boat each time I go out and record all fuel going into the boat.

As my wife doesn't like going too fast I don't flog it and normally travel around 3800/4000 rpm at around 22knots (according to GPS) hence the economy.

Unless you have a boat that you use a lot of hours on, or travel say more than an hour or so to your fishing ground I think it's hard to justify the initial cost of the 4 stroke. But having said all that the boat/motor was already packaged in the yard so I didn't actually order it specifically as a 2 stroke package. Just was interested in the package/price overall.

Having said that, it's a never ending argument.

Steve

[DARC]

Thanks for your variety of responses everyone!
It appears that it comes down to how much you use your boat, how much your willing to outlay initially, and then the cost of services. I personally own a 4 stroke Yamaha, and it's been a dream to use. Mind you thugh, it gets plenty of use!

After shopping around a bit, does $7500 sound about right for a 60 hp 2 stroke Mercury, fully fitted? (Checked that the Clark is rated to carry this weight - all good). I did investigate the etec option - quoted price was around the $9400 mark - bit too expensive for the amount of use it will get.

Cheers for your help - keep the feedback comin!
DARC

[Blackened]

G'day

Just a thought and i'm not 100% sure out on the dams around towoomba where you may be using the boat, but are there any 2 stroke restrictions?

If not, stick with the 2 banger.

Dave

[Noelm]

Jesus this 2 V 4 thing will not go away will it? it is like the cat V mono thing, well let me give you my UNBIASED thoughts I have both or had at some time, a 2 stroke is lighter , end of story on that count, a 2 stroke burns (these days a small amount) oil, a 4 stroke also burns some oil, but needs it to be changed (with a filter) and then disposed off, the cost of this is about equal in cost over a period of time (burning V changing) all motors need X amount of fuel (petrol) to make X amount of HP, that is just a fact of life, some motors will use a bit less at certain speeds and loads, but over a period of varied use (fishing) it will even out wether it be a 2 stroke or a 4 stroke, it WILL even out, a 4 stroke has more moving parts (not necessarily a bad thing) and requires a timing belt change at some intervals. but over a range of use and a few years the cost of ownership will be nearly the same, so get a motor from a good dealer with good backup and service, and a good range of parts and accessories, and your done!

[Scalem]

The differences between 2 and 4 stroke 'nowdays is splitting hairs IMO, I have been out in other people's recent model 2 strokes, and the old smell of oil isn't there any more to the point it's over powering like it is with my 2000 model Jonno. The 4S has a smell of its own, but is still an odour I rate similar in strength to the new 2S.

Take all the other things into account - smoothness through the rev range and economy, it really is a difficult choice. For me the only thing that tips it into the 2s favour is power to weight because the boat gets a fair bit of water skiing use, and the transom weight with my 70 HP is at maximum allowable for the size boat it is. There's no way I could put a 70HP 4s on ( I think I would need a 90 in a 4S to get same power as a 2s 70hp), so I would be sacrificing power just to have a 4s.

Scalem

[Dicko]

Are you proposing that there are now three types of engines available as marine outboards ?

2 strokes
4 strokes
ETECS - Im certain these fit into the 2 stroke category, dont they ???




That's the 3 choices I see when buying a new outboard, except you can add the optimax & TLDI tohatsu to the etec catergory. Putting all 2 strokes under the same banner is not a true comparison.

Low use. - Stick with a regular 2 stroke as it's not worth the expense of going new age injected 2 stroke or 4 stroke. particularly in low HP applications.

High use - 4 stroke or a new technology 2 strokes. you pay more in the purchase to get good fuel economy, low emissions etc.

[Flex]

Plus who doesn't love the sound of a 2 stroke..sounds so...meaty:)

[marty+jojo]

I believe that four strokes are great..... in the bigger outboards, for people who do big hours or long distance. Yes they use less fuel and are alot quieter at an idle, however servicing costs a whole lot more and there are way more moving parts to go wrong, and also they cost a heap more initially. IMHO the average bloke is better off buying a new generation two stroke.
Marty.

[DARC]

Thanks again for the advice on the new motor!

The father in law will be down this weekend and he's got a lot of thinking to do thanks to all the great comments! He loves reading the posts on AUSFISH, and this one will certainly capture his attention.
It's his decision now, and after all it is his boat and his hard earned he'll be spending.
Appreciate all your help

Cheers Darc

[sea raider]

PS - Oils aint oils unless of course its ETEC 2 stroke oil.

Then what is Etec oil???

It looks like oil

It smells like oil

It feels like oil

I put it in the oil reservoir

It says oil on the side of the bottle

Got me stuffed what it is then, what is it???

[doublexl]

Mate Check Out The Prices Of A 60 Efi Merc 4/stroke Compared To 2/stroke,ring Mr T In Brissy The Diff Is Less Than $300 Now...go 4/stroke

[DARC]

Doublexl,

Haven't talked to Mr T's, I'll give them a call tomorrow.
Thanks mate!

DARC

[For Steve]

I had a 2003 model 60hp 2 stroke Mercury on a Quintrex 455 Coastrunner (runabout). I didn't rate it very highly at all - hard to start both cold and hot, several repairs under warranty (tacho and ignition modules) , cooling system problem, corrosion.

I've had some experience with Suzuki (2 and 4 stroke up to 115hp), Johnson (25hp), and Yamaha (up to 175hp) of varying ages.

Now I recommend Yamaha (2 stroke and 4 stroke) and Suzuki (4 stroke). I also hear good things about Honda. I guess it depends on whether you can justify the price difference between 2 stroke and 4 stroke.

Regards, Brad.

[tigermullet]

50hp Tohatsu two stroke should do the job. Guess I am a bit biased as I like the dependabilty and strength of Tohatsu motors and favour two stroke over four and it does suit my purpose. However, my friend has a one hundred and something four stoke and it is a marvellous engine too - very fuel efficient.

[sjp2]

Darc a yam 60 4st tiller wont cost much more then $7500 ifyou look around