LEVEL or LEVEL AND UPRIGHT Floatation?

[seabug]

The past year there have been a number of boats that have been found ftoating upsidedown or have overturned on bars and have floated upsidedown.

Just wondering if this has made anyone think of changeing from underfloor floatation,which can cause a boat to float upside down,to Level and Upright Floatation which is supposed to keep the boat upright if swamped.

Regards
seabug

[Dicko]

Did it yrs ago. I'd prefer to be drifting around in a swamped boat that just......... um................................... drifting around treading water ;D

[snelly1971]

Yes...just had mine done Alan for Survey......gee they have tightened up things in the past few years...but i suppose it is all for the better....i used a newer product called micro-len....suppose to be the bees nees in floatation...

cheers mick

[FNQCairns]

I have just started packing the styrofoam back into the boat, the boat has by plate basic floatation. It's going in a lot tighter with the care of the owner and I will get an extra .2 or .3 m3 back in which is nice.

My gunnels bell out a little way so one of my longer tem plans is to get aluminium cylinders welded up and add these along each side under gunnel but above floor.

Mick never heard of micro-len? googled but found nothing regarding boat floatation, do you have any more info?
I would dearly love to know I had a better option then styrofoam underfloor for later.

cheers fnq

[snelly1971]

FNQ...it is sold here in Tassie by ( The Fiberglass Shop)...I had the marine surveyer come and look at my boat and he told me that that was the best flotation to use....sorry but that is all that i know about it....2400 by 1200 by 100 sheet is $240....
I have done my gunnels like you mentioned...they extrude 100 mm wide and then return to about 300 mm of the floor..

PS...Micro-len wont absorb water and fuel does not break it down either..and also there is no need to wrap it in plastic.
I will try and find some more info out....cheers Mick

[snelly1971]

FNQ...I will contact the supplier here on Friday and find out some specs and info for you..

cheers Mick

[FNQCairns]

Thanks Mick much appreciated, but don't go too far out of your way for me, just knowing it exists is most the battle - thanks:)

Sounds like great stuff to place low in the hull.

Does sound like you have done the above floor floatation I have planned, do you think it worked well enough that you would do it again? Rod holders will be a pain to work around

cheers fnq

[snelly1971]

I couldnt put any floatation under my floor ..as they are sealed pontoons..similar to the stabi-crafts....so i had to go for the above floor floatation....rod holders will be a pain..but it also gives me somewhere to sit my fat arse now whilst fishing...it makes my gunnels about 175mm..

[seabug]

Hi snelly,
Any chance of some pics of the finished job?

Regards
seabug

[snelly1971]

Yes ...still being installed so when its finished i will post some pics....

Cheers Mick

[snelly1971]

Got some info on Micro - Len...
It has been available here in Tassie for approx 6 months..
The main differences between micro-len and other forms of flotation are...
1...It is alot more durable and pliable and has no memory ...
2.It is stronger.
3.It does not crumble.
4.Can be cut up into small pieces eg..bean bag ball size..but still has the same buoyance..
5.It is similar to the bouyance used in bouyance vests.
6.And generally easier to cut...shape...and work with..

The only other point he added...was that say your boat broke in half then you could grab a piece of this and it would float you..were as the older forms of flotation crumble and break up..


This information FNQ was supplied by the retailer here...
Cheers Mick

[FNQCairns]

Mick it sounds vastly better than anything out there ATM even closed cell polyurethane.

Now I am curious did you use this stuff alone under your Gunnel??

Sounds like a person could in theory even make a casting deck etc from it if used thick enough, that would be a great option to add both function and safety in one unit.

Thanks very much for the info Mick

Later I will see if the local glass guys can source it, I will do the casting deck in the stuff if at all possible.

cheers fnq

[snelly1971]

FNQ...yes i only used this under the gunnel. They also use it in kids playgrounds as well...he did what for...but i was taking so much info that i have forgot why...
As for your casting deck....great idea....there is a spec sheet available from them...I could probably try and source one if you like...I think it compares Micro-len to other forms of flotation...eg...amount of buoyance m3 ect..

And as i said before....If the Marine Surveyor is recommending this product then it must be pretty good ...compared to the older style flotation..

Cheers Mick

[FNQCairns]

Mick, Going of what you say the stuff is the bees knees, can be screwed directly to structure, stays together, it's tough and doesn't degrade!

Look forward to your pics, if a person could use this instead of ply it's not really that expensive at all and my thoughts of extra floataton below the gunnels on my boat makes a lot more sense.

also the extra oportunities for the average boat owner to easily offer themselves a bigger safety margin with this stuff compared to what was on the market before (that I found).

Mick just the weight per m3 or per cubic foot would be interesting if you run over it.

cheers fnq

[snelly1971]

I will try and get him to email me the spec sheet next week and i will post it here...I should have my boat finished by next week so i will post some pics asap...
The guy reckons cutting up the old buoyance was a prick..you would cart it home on your clothes and boots and tramp it all through your house/ car....There is no such problem with Micro -len...

And I agree about the Safety factor...i have seen too many old boats..even my last dingy was fitted with that green Buoyancy...crumbled to pieces...SH#T of a stuff...
Cheers Mick

[seabug]

Hi snelly,
There is a reference to Microlen on the page here

http://www.nmsc.gov.au/nrce_ap.asp?Product_Type=0

Check out number 23 on the list.

Regards
seabug

[seabug]

This Tasmanian site
http://www.mast.tas.gov.au/domino/mast/newweb.nsf/v-html/fsGenSafety

Gives all the information one needs to work out the type and amount of floatation material required
It also gives instructions on cutting and installing the different products.

At $250-$300 for the average boat it is a very cost effective insurance.
Click on the URL above.
Then Click on Bouyancy in boats ,at bottom of right hand column,and then click on the PDF mark.

Regards
seabug

[FNQCairns]

Seabug, those links sent me on a journey that ended here:

http://www.tfifoam.com.au/index.html

Thanks for that:)

cheers fnq

[QuinnyDory]

I read a very interesting article in TBF early this year (I think...) from their resident naval architect that discussed what it means for a trailer boat to qualify for level floatation... and based soley on the logic presented it really opened my eyes. In summary, given a boat will float upright in reasonable conditions, it doesnt mean it will necessarily behave the same way when more than one person(S) is wandering around a swamped hull in less than favourable conditions and you have a huge inertial mass of water sloshing about (likely at a time when you have been swamped). Im no expert but it made me wonder about the whole situation and whether LEVEL floatation is a realistic prospect in weather that is bad anyway - maybe the best that anyone could expect is basic floatation anyway ?. My 2 cents.

[snelly1971]

So what do you think FNQ...???

[FNQCairns]

QD I think you are completely correct, the great amount of positive uplift caused by buoyancy underfloor when above floor is flooded and moving just flips boats quick smart. The only way around it is to have a gradient of buoyancy from less low to most high, don't think the manufacturers are interested in this as it would subtract from the visual and usable appeal of the interior, a boat built like this could I guess right it's self in theory given enough wave action.

The best a person who has basic floatation can do is add enough foam above floor that when the boat does try to turn turtle and a side dips entirely under water the added buoyancy (uplift) included by foam at that point is enough to halt the flip, then with luck enough water is then trapped inside that it all stabilizes albeit near totally flooded.

Those stabicraft and other boats of the same design have a huge advantage they don't need water to flood the interior to stop the flip, by the time the water is just trickling over the gunnel the outer tubes are exerting near full uplift to stop the flip.

Just gotta laugh at the adds for level buoyancy done on glassed out water next to a jetty, bungs out, with one guy on a stern corner and another bloke balancing him somewhere on the other side, both look to scared to scratch!:) might it all turn turtle!:) But a person can do that to any semi sealed floor boat I know because we completly flooded the under floor area on a 30 year old 18foot savage to get it under a bridge when the tide was rising to save 4 hours waiting, but we did have to put the bungs back in to stop from completly sinking.

cheers fnq

PS boats with ply floors and foam floatation underneath also have a great amount of air inbetween (that water will flood adding balast low)and have a better chance of staying upright than any comparably sized sealed floor boat.

[seabug]

I read a very interesting article in TBF early this year (I think...) from their resident naval architect that discussed what it means for a trailer boat to qualify for level floatation... and based soley on the logic presented it really opened my eyes. In summary, given a boat will float upright in reasonable conditions, it doesnt mean it will necessarily behave the same way when more than one person(S) is wandering around a swamped hull in less than favourable conditions and you have a huge inertial mass of water sloshing about (likely at a time when you have been swamped). Im no expert but it made me wonder about the whole situation and whether LEVEL floatation is a realistic prospect in weather that is bad anyway - maybe the best that anyone could expect is basic floatation anyway ?. My 2 cents.

Hi QuinnyDory,

LEVEL Floatation IS Basic Floatation. And is why a lot of abandoned boats are found floating upsidedown.

The LEVEL AND Upright Flotation is really the same result as that used in Stabicraft.
The Micolen in the gunnels equals the tubes on the Stabi type of craft.

By putting the right amount of Microlen under the gunnels the boat can stopped from turning upsidedown.

With those boats that allready have sealed space under the floor of the boat equal to the boats weight(Plate Alum boats with the self draining deck) it would mean that some of the underfloor volume needs to be reduced and that reduced volume made up by putting floatation under the gunnels.

Otherwise the boat would have too much floatation below water level and would still be top heavy if swamped.

One could reduce the underfloor volume by putting in wet storage lockers,catch bins etc.

Regards
seabug

[seatime]

Hi QuinnyDory,

LEVEL Floatation IS Basic Floatation. And is why a lot of abandoned boats are found floating upsidedown.

The LEVEL AND Upright Flotation is really the same result as that used in Stabicraft.
The Micolen in the gunnels equals the tubes on the Stabi type of craft.

By putting the right amount of Microlen under the gunnels the boat can stopped from turning upsidedown.

With those boats that allready have sealed space under the floor of the boat equal to the boats weight(Plate Alum boats with the self draining deck) it would mean that some of the underfloor volume needs to be reduced and that reduced volume made up by putting floatation under the gunnels.

Otherwise the boat would have too much floatation below water level and would still be top heavy if swamped.

One could reduce the underfloor volume by putting in wet storage lockers,catch bins etc.

Regards
seabug

There seems to be a big difference in the definitions of "level flotation" and "basic flotation"as are used when referring to the Australian Builders Plate markings.
Can't find references to "level and upright flotation", maybe level and upright have the same meaning?
have a look here ; http://www.safeboating.org.au/Builders_Plate/Plate_explanation.asp

[seabug]

Hi Gelsec

Seems that there are different descriptions of boat floatation.:)

http://stinet.dtic.mil/oai/oai?&verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=AD0767791

http://www.ultimate.com/omc-boats/lambrecht.html
Regards
seabug

[seatime]

Hi Gelsec

Seems that there are different descriptions of boat floatation.:)

http://stinet.dtic.mil/oai/oai?&verb=getRecord&metadataPrefix=html&identifier=AD0767791

Regards
seabug

;D ;D that's an American report circa 1973, do you think it's relevant to Australia 2007, or terms used in this country present day. Even imported boats are required to comply with ISO standards which are similar to Australian Standards, "basic" isn't the same as "level" flotation as per current regs. :)

cheers
Steve

[seabug]

Hi Gelsec
Yes it is 1973:o
But did you read the second URL?:D

I am glad that lots of members have seen that they can make their boats a lot safer ,and have their families less worried if someone is caught in a storm ,for about the price of a good reel.;D

Regards
seabug

[seabug]

I read a very interesting article in TBF early this year (I think...) from their resident naval architect that discussed what it means for a trailer boat to qualify for level floatation... and based soley on the logic presented it really opened my eyes. In summary, given a boat will float upright in reasonable conditions, it doesnt mean it will necessarily behave the same way when more than one person(S) is wandering around a swamped hull in less than favourable conditions and you have a huge inertial mass of water sloshing about (likely at a time when you have been swamped). Im no expert but it made me wonder about the whole situation and whether LEVEL floatation is a realistic prospect in weather that is bad anyway - maybe the best that anyone could expect is basic floatation anyway ?. My 2 cents.
Hi QuinyDory,

Sorry ,my interpretation of some terms is in some places incorrect.:-X
What I was trying to get across was that it would be much safer to be in the
boat in the top picture below.
Regards
seabug


Buoyancy for Vessels Less than Six Metres


http://www.nmsc.gov.au/images/ABP%20boat.JPG

Level Flotation – means that the boat will continue to float in a level position if swamped and will be prevented from capsizing in calm water. This will allow you to remain in the boat and bail the vessel to remove the water.

http://www.nmsc.gov.au/images/ABP%20boat%202.JPG

Basic Flotation – means that the boat will float in some form if swamped. If the boat has capsized, it will remain afloat for you to possibly cling to the upturned hull.
*These diagrams are illustrative only and apply in calm water.

<back to top> (http://www.nmsc.gov.au/abp.html#top)
http://www.nmsc.gov.au/images/linebreak.jpg
Information for Industry

The ABP is fast becoming law around Australia, so it is important for manufacturers to start developing plates to keep up with ABP legislation and regulation.
To ensure quality control of information on an ABP, only a builder, importer or competent person can supply and approve information on an ABP. A competent person is some-one who has acquired, through training, qualification or experience, the skills to approve information on a builders plate.
For further details, download:
FAQ - Builders (http://www.nmsc.gov.au/documents/FAQ-BuildersJuly06.pdf)
FAQ - Dealers (http://www.nmsc.gov.au/documents/ABP%20FAQ%20-%20Dealers%20Julyl%2006%20-%20TE%20modified.pdf)

<back to top> (http://www.nmsc.gov.au/abp.html#top)

[snelly1971]

Well the boat is finally back and finished....he is a few picks...

[deadbeatloser]

m8 that looks the go , bloody good idea , did the sheet metal work cost much? well done.

[deadbeatloser]

Well the boat is finally back and finished....he is a few picks...
ive got a 4.7 open tinny which i take 20mile offshore an hav found the transom to be to low,so next week end i am having a pod{2} stuk on each side of the motor{60 yam f/s}to give a bit of extra tail to stop water cumn over bak as it does. would luv 2 do wat u hav done.any suggestions?:P

[dnej]

http://www.tfifoam.com.au/product.htm
Try that web site, it has some information on the product.
David

[snelly1971]

cost about $1000 bucks including the Micro-len floatation.....

Cheers Mick

[seabug]

Hi Mick,
Job looks good,neat bit of alloy work.
And you can still get your toes underneath.
Regards
seabug

[snelly1971]

Yes...I am very happy with the job....I am thinking about fitting some padding along the sides now to rest my weary old legs against...just not quite sure how i am going to fasten them....cheers Mick

[Smithy]

Mick,

you'd be surprise how strong Velcro is. Even the Black Watchs have bits of Velcro holding some of their hard to fit bits of padded coamings. I am looking at using sail track to keep the padded coamings on, on my next boat.

Having just spent the last two weeks going round in circles talking to boat builders and marine surveyors, what everyone has talked about in this thread is correct. What Snelly has done is the only way out. Also have a look in the reports section on the DI Pt 9/6/07 report by Firetruck. http://www.ausfish.com.au/vforum/showthread.php?t=111356 In that the guy has gone out with Ed Falconer who has Keely Rose a boat in Qld 2C to 15Nm survey. To achieve that Ed would have had to have got his boat builder to supply a statement of positive flotation. In the pictures you can see similar to what Snelly has had done but from the gunnel to the floor to achieve the required amount of bouyancy up high. That is what it hinges on, getting this flotation high enough. More than 6.0m and for survey someone would have to do stability calculations.

Talking to the couple of surveyors I talked to, cats are the conundrum. They will always capsize but to get to that point a lot has to happen. If holed they have two hulls to start with and the clincher is they have self draining decks. That makes a lot of difference and surveyors are forever fighting the authorities over cats being a legitimate proven design for boats required in survey.

[builder]

just bought out a new boat design ''twin skin hull'' and i use micro len
will post pics and the specs ,let me know what you think

[Edencraft]

Boston Whaler have true level floation but you pay for it.

[snelly1971]

Hi Builder...what do you think of Micro Len as a product....

Cheers Mick

[Edencraft]

I think the whole issue is a bit exagerated and simplistic in respect to safety. Very few boats just get swamped in calm water or get holes in the bottom of the hull and start taking on water. By far the greatest hazard is capsize due to waves, ie crossing a bar, broaching while running with a sea etc etc and in such a situation no amount of floation is going to change the fact that your in the water with a boat that is upside down with no way of righting it. Would recomend a good quality bar crossing course and seamanship course plus good maintenance would go a lot further towards making you and your family safe than any amount of floatation.

[snelly1971]

I think the whole issue is a bit exagerated and simplistic in respect to safety. Very few boats just get swamped in calm water or get holes in the bottom of the hull and start taking on water. By far the greatest hazard is capsize due to waves, ie crossing a bar, broaching while running with a sea etc etc and in such a situation no amount of floation is going to change the fact that your in the water with a boat that is upside down with no way of righting it. Would recomend a good quality bar crossing course and seamanship course plus good maintenance would go a lot further towards making you and your family safe than any amount of floatation.

Have you read anything in this Post......

We are talking about UPRIGHT floatation ........

And just maybe the sea conditions where other Ausfish members live ...arnt as friendly as yours.....

Cheers Mick

[cormorant]

Level and upright flotation do not mean self righting.

So if your boat gets a hole or you leave the bung out and is swamped in the lake it will float with the gunnels just aove the water and you can put the bung in / plug the hole and bail it out. Yipee

Now for the real world. Boat has flipped. this flotation will not self right the boat to my knowledge.

Think about how much ballast a yacht has or even how much buoyancy a hobicat has with one of those 15 litre cones on top of it's mast 30 feet up to stop it going turtle but not self right.

Comments about flotation foam and ability to stop a boat turning over or healing as much are incorrect. Your hull shape determins that. Flotation only comes into play when swamped.


Hmmm

Also can't see the fire rating on that foam??

[Edencraft]

Your 100% right cormerant in the real world no amount of floatation, upright, level or any other is going to change the fact that you will be in the water clinging to an upturned hull in 95% of situations. Snelly1971 you have no idea of the conditions that I go boating in or my experience as a skipper or my knowledge of boat building and design but you take your boat beam too through a bar and get hit by a wave and I bet your clinging to an upturned hull regardless of your bounancy.

[seabug]

Your 100% right cormerant in the real world no amount of floatation, upright, level or any other is going to change the fact that you will be in the water clinging to an upturned hull in 95% of situations. Snelly1971 you have no idea of the conditions that I go boating in or my experience as a skipper or my knowledge of boat building and design but you take your boat beam too through a bar and get hit by a wave and I bet your clinging to an upturned hull regardless of your bounancy.

Hi #########,
What makes you think that a boat would be upside down in 95% of situations?

Regards
seabug

[seatime]

######### & cormorant are correct in saying, having a "level flotation" capability won't self-right the vessel. 95% may be accurate, haven't seen the figures to comment. a lot will come down to decisions made by the operator at the time, there will be times when exceptional circumstances, planets alighning, that sort of thing will define the outcome.
it's practically impossible to achieve self-righting in an open or well-deck boat, like most of us fish out of, you'd need flush decks and a heap of ballast, boats similar to one's in a video of the US Coast Guard on another thread. traditional fishing boats just don't have the design to be self righting, they're built to carry loads.
I'm happy to have reserve buoyancy because swampings are always a possibility. if the seas are such, that they can capsize your boat, avoiding that will be down to the skipper.

Steve

[snelly1971]

Well all i can say is that i have seen many swamped boats...and 90% of them were upright......as for fishing conditions EC....They dont call it the roaring forties down here for nothing......

The main reason for myself for fitting above floor flotation is to bring my boat into survey standards...which now it is.....I think the marine surveyors would know a little bit more about buoyance than us.????....

Cheers Mick

[cormorant]

Surveyers know alot about conforming to the rules
They will get compliance
Bluntly your boat may float a little higher in the water in perfect conditions if swamped and if the calc has been done right and it will also float a little higher upside down so you have more to cling to but seriously no 300kg of positive bouyancy will stop the (active momentum) motion of 2 tonne of water rolling in your boat trying to get over your gunnels.

It'll help the rescue services find your hull quicker in a worse case and give you more to try and hold on to.

I myself would be very reticind to stay in a fully swamped boat in any serious swell due to possibility of getting tangled or injured by it's violent movement and risk of very fast capsize. Don't know what the experts say on that one but i know in the hobart they chose the liferaft over hanging around on board and risking injury

Seriously if what I have said doesn't click get a margarine container in the bath cut it down and add some foam floatation and a lead sinker and do an experiment.

Should say that floatation is a great idea and can lead to safer boating and better emergency outcomes but it should be placed well in perspective as a worse case scenario helper not saviour.

[snelly1971]

Well firstly ...The reason for fitting the added buoyance is so my boat will meet survey standards...as ...i will be in survey next month....and 2...where do you get the added 300 kg of buoyance from....

I am a very experienced boater..but i am not that cock sure of myself that i wouldnt fit more floatation either to my boat ..be it for survey standards or just plainly as a rec fisherman...even the best operators come unstuck sometimes...and gee wouldnt it be nice to have something to hang onto ...be it upside down or not...

I am not sure of the exact figures of floatation in my boat at present...but next month when the marine survey does his calcs then i will post them...

Cheers Mick

[snelly1971]

As for the Sydney to Hobart....If a boat has no propulsion or is breaking up ...then yes...i would also jump ship and get into a life raft....

Mick

[cormorant]

Well firstly ...The reason for fitting the added buoyance is so my boat will meet survey standards...as ...i will be in survey next month....and 2...where do you get the added 300 kg of buoyance from....

I am a very experienced boater..but i am not that cock sure of myself that i wouldnt fit more floatation either to my boat ..be it for survey standards or just plainly as a rec fisherman...even the best operators come unstuck sometimes...and gee wouldnt it be nice to have something to hang onto ...be it upside down or not...

I am not sure of the exact figures of floatation in my boat at present...but next month when the marine survey does his calcs then i will post them...

Cheers Mick

Dam Wrote a reply but can't get it to post

300kg positive buoyancy was a quick guestimate / number out of the air doing a quick calc of the space under the gunnel on a small boat.

I've been in a swamped boat after hitting a submerged object and it injured us when it violently turned turtle ,we were expecting it still the speed it rolled surprised us but once over it was a platform with a decent motion to hang onto until we swam to shore. No amount of floatation within reason would have stopped it going turtle due to cabin roof etc . In dead calm situation floatation may have slowed the violent turn turtle but it was inevitable as the slighest movement by any of us had the boat healing and then a small swell popped us over.

Until see actual fully rigged boats in a moderate swell not turn turtle I would worry about all the marketing hype on level floatation. Maybe for a runabout. Yes my boat is survey built and has floatation foam and airtight compartments so i know their value and wouldn't be without them. More floatation to a point is better but you don't want to end up with a boat that can turn over and then go over again. You need it stable platform in an emengency but as you say you want something to hang on to not a boat that goes to the bottom.

It concerns me that inexperienced people will take a unsuitable boat or a boat into unsuitable conditions because the believe the worst case is that it will get swamped , float level and they can either sit and wait it out or bail and get on their way. That is what I believe the pretty level floatation diagrams seem to promote. I don't believe many if any boats without a bloody big lead keel designed for self righting will ever do that. Most will turn turtle.

Absolute pain getting boats to survey standard if not originally built that way or upgrading to higher survey stsndard. Hope it goes well.

[builder]

If you need more info i have product information
I use it and navel archtects and surveyers love it.
1m3 will float a tonne
only abbsorbes 3% water and wont break down
fuel resistant
fibre glass international keep it in stock, Brisbane/goldcoast.
comes in 25mm.50mm,75mm and 100mm thickness 1200 x 2400mm sheets
4 sheets of 100mm make 1m3.
cheers

[snelly1971]

Thanks for the info Builder...I just installed 2 full 100mm sheets so that must give me an added 500kg of bouyancey.....They are currently doing the calcs on the sealed chambers and flotation that the boat came when built...

I can see your point cormorant....If a boat has extra flotation...it does not make it any more sea worthy ...just a little bit more safer ...well thats my opinion ...if disaster strikes....

The other difference between us....is water temp....it gets down to 5 deg here in winter in the bay and about 12 outside...so that is why i stressed the point about extra flotation....If disaster striked and the boat was upright/ or not ...it would hopefully give us something to cling/climb onto whilst waiting for rescue...

Cheers Mick

[snelly1971]

PS...I think by memory ...A person would not last very long in water that cold....I just cant remember the exact figures/hours...but i know it was not very long...

Mick

[cormorant]

Cold water kills and fatigues you quickly. Air is a poor conductor of heat and water is a good one. So if you can get as much of your body out of the cold water and protected on the leeward side of a boat you'll last ages longer especially if you can keep your head out of the water as major heat loss if via face neck and scalp.

Those cold water conditions a inflatable life jacket on at all times in my mind as your man overboard scenario is deadly fast.

Amazing the difference 1 degree in water temp makes. I scrub the bottom of a moored family boat and bow at about 18-19 deg water temp without any wetsuit I can go about 1 hour only in the water before the affects are getting serious and uncomfortable and I have a good coat of blubber!!! At lower temps like 17 it is like 20 minutes to get to the same point of near distress.

As long as the floatation doesn't end up being so much as to create a unstable rescue platform when turtle it is a good idea as I think we all agree now that boats don't stay upright very long when swamped offshore.

[fishing111]

Snelly or Builder have you got any photos of what this stuff looks like?

[snelly1971]

I will take some pics tonight and post them for you Paul..

Cheers Mick

[fishing111]

Thanks Snelly much appreciated.

[snelly1971]

Too bloody cold outside tonight Paul...I will post the pics tom...cheers Mick

[Lovey80]

Hi guys interesting reading. Builder what would 1m3 of that gear weigh? Must be some very very light gear to be able to float that much weight.


Cheers Chris

[builder]

not sure on weight but yes is light
i am guessing at 30kg