Older cats, good, bad & the ugly ?

[lee8sec]

Looking for peoples opinion on the older cats, 18 to 24ft, on what was good or bad as far as seaworthy, user friendly, safe, for offshore work. Alloy or glass.
Not interested in the cat / mono debate. Thanks Leigh

PS. Looking at 80's onward, depending on $$$$. Don't know alot about them.

[PinHead]

just send kerry a pm.

[Blackened]

just send kerry a pm.


What a crack up pinhead, lol ;D ;D ;D

Dave

[Noelm]

hhmm if you are after one on the "budget" side it would be hard to go past an 18 foot Sharkcat, cheap, good performance, (a tad low in the bow) but still has no vices as far as handling goes, then you might go up to the bigger sharkcts, need a bit of power and do take some getting used to ,to get the best out of them, on the Alloy side, any of the older ones are getting a bit on the "could have cracks/corrosion" side of things, but the old Broadbills are quite good and if you could find one an original Alloycat was a good old boat.

[Kerry]

Wouldn't be touching anything in alloy in that range and in glass there is quite a (big) difference between a 18 and 24 foot cat.

The problem with the so called 18 foot Sharkcat is there are so many of them, so many different variations, probably never got the 18 exactly right? In fact some of the 18's are a real worry, a tad lightlow in the bow? that's an understatement.

As far as safe for offshore work? Most are forgiving but all are only as good as the nut behind the wheel.

In the small cat range then if you can find an original 5.2 Kevlacat at a good price then that would be very difficult to go pass.

Ever thought about a Hydrofield from that era? Lots of different ones with them too!

Regards, Kerry.

[lee8sec]

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/CAT-SHARKCAT-HARDTOP-24FT_W0QQitemZ170097488484QQcategoryZ102700QQssPag eNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Some thing like this would suit me for what i want. Pity iam not ready to buy yet. Would need to build a trailer but that wouldnt worry me. Leigh

[lee8sec]

How do the cats handle with a single stern drive like in the link in the above post? Or should i stick with twin engine setups? Leigh

[Kerry]

So does Pinhead and Blackened have anything to add :):)

[OPTI]

I Would Stay Away From The Stern Drive Cats.cats Are Very Sensitive To Weight.if You Over Load A Cat They Turn Into A Pig Real Quick.the Problem With The Stern Drive Option Is The Low Power And Heavy Weight.they Go Like A Barge.a Well Balanced Cat Should Have A Light Air Cushion Feel To The Ride,thats What Makes The Ride So Good In The Chop,they Float Over It.put To Much Weight In One And They Never Get Up ,just Plough Through Everything.
Good Cats Can Be Made Pigs By There Owners.make Sure You Test Any Cat You Are Thinking Of Buying.a Lot Of Cat Owners Dont Really Know What A Properly Set Up Cat Should Feel Like.some Ive Been In Dont Even Respond To Trim.
If Your Looking At The 23 Sc Go The Outboard Version A Much Better Balanced Outfit,getting Hard To Find A Good One Though.

[Grand_Marlin]

Opti, it depends totally on what motor is in the sterndrive cat ... 165 volvo was a pig, 200, especially in the later AD41 series motors is very good.
You could also repower with one of the new 4 cylinder 210hp volvos for around 38 grand .... the extra power and lighter motor (4 cyl as compared to the older 6 cyl) would give excellent performance.
So dont be too quick to $hit can the sterndrive model.

When you look at sterndrive as compared to outboard in a 23ft sharkcat, you really are comparing two totally different boats in handling, performance and definitely in fuel consumption.

A 23ft sharkcat with typically twin 175 - 200 motors is a great boat - they have heaps of power, excellent throttle response for bar work, can spin in their own length with one motor forward / one in reverse, and the power will deliver the magic carpet soft ride from 25 kts upwards.
The big downside is the fuel consumption ... on the plane (30kts) with twin 200 2 strokes will be using around 150 litres an hour total... more if you give it to it.
So, an average day off Moreton will see you using 400 - 500 litres.
Ouch !!
Also beware of underpowered outboard models ... there are a few around with twim 115's and I have even seen one with twin 70 blueband mercs. These are dangerously underpowered.
Twin 150's should be a minimum.
Yes, they can be repowered with twin 4 strokes which fixes the fuel problem ... all you have to do is add $50,000 to the cost of the boat (which would probably be 30 - 40 grand for a 700 series) so you end up with an 80 - $90,000 boat.
Arguably, the lifespan of an outboard on a cat will be under 3000 hours.

The sterndrive option is a different feeling boat ... it feels more like a cruising boat, but it does feel like a bigger boat than the same size with outboards.

The sterndrive (200 volvo) will push the cat to 30 kts max ... so it is still well and truly on the plane, and does have the magic carpet ride.
The performance / handling is different ... it sort of has a "wind it up and let it go" feel.
It doesnt have the stinging punch of twin outboards, but it does have miles and miles more torque.
The torque of the diesel, combined with the duo props will see the sterndrive model sit at any speed you set it at, in any conditions, without having to work the throttles like an outboard model - especially in rough water and when carrying heavy loads.
This is why this model was very popular with commercial fisherman.

The upside to the diesel is the longevity, reliability and fuel consumption of the motor.
You can typically expect a 200 volvo to run for 10,000 - 14,000 hours before needing a rebuild.
The fuel economy of a 200 volvo at full throttle is around 35 litres an hour.
Therefore a day off moreton would typically see you using 100 - 150 litres.

As I said ... two identical boats, with two different power options = two completely different boats.

My personal preference?

I like them both, but for Moreton etc the diesel is excellent.
If I were crossing bars regularly, and not running huge distances, I would choose the twin outboards.

Cheers

Pete

[Grand_Marlin]

As a footnote ... if you are considering the one on ebay, check out the motor.

This boat was for sale in Sydney around 6 - 8 months ago.

It had the 165 Volvo in it.

[lee8sec]

Pete & Opti thanks for the info. It does have a 165hp in it. :'(

Where i live now there is no bar to cross & when i move to Sunshine coast it will mostly go out at Maroochy. I dont need a fast boat, just a stable fishing platform that wont break the bank for a days fishing. Have throught about the repower of a outboard version with HPDI / OPTI / ETEC motors if i got a smaller cat but like you said big dollars for pair of 200hp+ for a big cat. More to think about:-/ Leigh

[Grand_Marlin]

Leigh, you can buy mine when it is finished....

I have one the same as ebay with a late model 200hp motor & leg

Cheers

Pete

[lee8sec]

Pete, when you say finished, what are you doing to it? Leigh

[Grand_Marlin]

Basically a full cosmetic overhaul ... structurally it is fine, but was an ex crab boat, so needed some TLC.
It will be metallic gold with black carbon fibre trim when finished ... it has a 2000 model 200 hp turbo volvo with a 2003 model XP leg. All on trailer.

Cheers

Pete

[lee8sec]

Pete could you pm me a contact number? Leigh

[lee8sec]

Thanks every one for your input. Will keep looking for what i need.

GRAND_MARLIN (Pete) thanks for the chat. Its people like you that make these forums worth while. Leigh

[finding_time]

Pete & Opti thanks for the info. It does have a 165hp in it. :'(

Where i live now there is no bar to cross & when i move to Sunshine coast it will mostly go out at Maroochy. :-/ Leigh



Hmmmm!i think you mean Mooloolahbah? You are not going to get a boat much bigger that 17" over the Pincushion bar( maroochy river) very shallow inside the bar and quite tricky at the bar.

Ian

[lee8sec]

Ian, thanks for the correction, yes i did mean moolooabah. Leigh

[Matt_F]

Hi All,

I have been reading this thread with interest. I would like to add a question (I hope you don't mind Leigh). What are the advantages/disadvantages of a single engine outboard driven cat compared to the equvelent with twin motors, same power etc? I have seen these buit by NQ Borger Cats.

Cheers,
Matt.

[northernblue]

BUMP

Kerry
Grand_Marlin
????

[Grand_Marlin]

Sorry Matt, didnt see your post.

There are only a few advantages with a single OUTBOARD engined cat:
- fuel economy
- the related service costs to having one v's two motors.
- cheaper to buy
- slightly lighter to tow
The main reason you dont see too many single engined cats, is the fact that they cant get the single engine to run properly in between the hulls as there is too much turbulance and the motor cavitates.

Noosa Cat make a 5m single engine cat
Webster twinfisher make various aluminium single engine cats
Markham whaler / hookem / dominator made smaller single engine (side engine)cats.

In my opinion, these smaller single engine cats are designed for estuary / bay / light offshore work.

If you have two identical boats - one with twin motors / one with single motor, the twin engined cat is a completely different boat with way better performance, handling & controlability.
You then have all the other advantages:
Twin motor reliability, separate fuel systems, lateral trim ability etc etc etc.

Always keep in mind that not all cats are created equal.

A properly set up cat with the right horsepower is a brilliant boat.

Thankfully, there arent too many bad cats on the market ... BUT if you get the setup / horsepower / hull design wrong and they can be very ordinary.

Single inboard diesels are a different story, as described in my post on page 1.

Apart from the fuel economy and servicing cost, a twin engined cat is by far the best choice.

Cheers

Pete