Another Cat Question??????

[Deiter]

Hi All. Thinking about getting a cat in the next year or so, and i am wondering about the different styles of hulls available.

I have absolutely LOVED the ride in the cats i have been on, and the missus has a bad back and complains about the current ride in any chop (5.5m plate 1/2 cab), so the 'magic carpet' seems the way to go, probably between 5 to 5.5m.

Two specific things i am wondering, is -
A) how do the alloy cats in this size range go? Still a good ride? Any issues with welds cracking?

B) what differences are there between symetrical sponsons and asymetrical? Some of the asymetricals i have seen look like a deep V mono with a peice cut from the centreline of the hull. Do they work alright or shite?

Cheers, Damo

[Cloud_9]

the problem you have is the part where you keep looking at Ally boats .
go glass for better ride.
mate had a allison fisherman 18.6 ride as good if not better than any cat.
ally boaTS just bash. because there's not ability to have a true flaired bow.
ride a glass boat first before you get a cat.
cloud 9

[fly_1]

Sorry mate, but no allison can compare with a glass cat. I have fished a few times from a couple of allison boats, and I currently own a kevlacat, and the allison, or any other mono doesnt come close to the ride!!!!! Once you have owned a cat, you will never go back to a mono !!!!

[perko]

I agree with fly1. Dont let the mono boys influence you with there dribble. I have owned a 5.2 kevlacat which was awsome, a 5.5 Sailfish which was better again and currently have a 6m Sailfish which is the pick of the 3 but so it should be as it is the biggest by a fair bit. Alloy cats still have 2 sharp hulls and a tunnell that gets lots of giving you the magic carpet ride. Alloy is light, easy to tow and needs less HP. It is harder to clean than glass and paint is a pain. There is not a lot of choices in the size you want. Any kevlacat, sailfish, dominator, coastal cat should do a good job for you. I am not a noosa cat fan in that sizes. Been in 2 different models and not as good as the others. Once you've gone cat you will never go back.

[Noelm]

had an Alloy cat for over 10 years, and glass cats for longer, the old which is better argument will continue forever, but having been there and done it for a long time I would lean towards glass for a couple of fairly simple reasons, one is they are MUCH easier to keep clean, no little welded corners and stuff (not a big deal I know but true) Alloy no matter how well made will crack after years of flexing (don't care who tells me it is not so I do not believe them (been there also) glass always looks better as it is nice and smooth and so on, and the ride seems to be better on a glass boat (always debatable but I think so) whatever you decide on, make sure you have ample power cats LOVE power trust me on that one! I have a 6 metre glass cat at the moment that I will be selling later in the year, but I will get anothewr one for sure (no argument on that side)

[Deiter]

Thanx guys, The arguement for alloy is just because i fish solo alot atm, and it is sooooo much easier to deal with at the ramps i frequently use. Don't get me wrong - i would go glass in a heartbeat if i could, but pulling a glass boat up on to a concrete ramp or gravel would make me cringe. Also the weight factor, though not AS important, less power, less fuel, easier to tow, all stacks in alloys favour.

Also, I don't think the mono vs cat ride is relevant, it's a no-brainer imo.

Now we got that out of the road (sort of), anyone have any experience with asymetrical hulls vs symetrical????

Damo

p.s. Perko, a 5.5 sailfish is on my list of things to do! What did you have pushing yours?

[Noelm]

I had a bit to do with cats that you describe as "a mono with a bit cut out the centre" (Seacat and Whalers) and I do not see any real winner or loser on this design issue, just different ways to do something, the newer type Dominators are supposed to lean inwards like a mono where as Symetrical hulls tend to lean outwards, not a big deal in a fishing boat in my opinion, unless you are a water skier, who wants to do a U turn at 30knots at sea??? so no big deal to me, but still a fact so decide yourself how important it is, I also doubt if you will get asymetrical hulls on an Alloy cat, but maybe somewhere! so no real issue with either for fishing as far as I can see, sure, different but not something to turn you off either type.

[Noelm]

OH I forgot I knew a guy with a 5.5 sailfish and he had 70HP (Johnsons) on it and it was OK, but he wished he got 90's said they where right on the limit of power for it, he ended up selling it and the guy that got it put 90's on it 3 months later, said it was twice the boat and almost no difference in fuel, it is a case of the right power will always be much better than "just enough" sure it looks cheaper on paper when you are buying it, but in the long run, the correct HP is far better than the lower minimum rating.

[Kerry]

....how do the alloy cats in this size range go? Would not be my choice


....Still a good ride? to a point. suffers from the traditional alloy tin can slap/slop when stationary


....Any issues with welds cracking? yes has been known to be depending. Takes a lot of additional welding to get the shape in small cats.


....what differences are there between symetrical sponsons and asymetrical? Some of the asymetricals i have seen look like a deep V mono with a peice cut from the centreline of the hull. Do they work alright or shite? Asymetricals? Some are downright awfull, not my style of hull what so ever.

[Noelm]

geees "cloud 9" you are easy to please if you like an Allison, but hey to each his own and not too sure what a "flared bow" has to do with ride, some influence on water displacement direction, but should be no where near the water to influence ride in any way (my thoughts here)

[Deiter]

cheers for the input Noelm. I have seen a few with asymetrical hulls, and always wondered how they compared.

Kerry, whatever i get will be a compromise (nothing new here), and i have only the room to store a smaller cat, asked about alloy ones for reasons previously posted, and i can't afford a nice 5.2 kevlacat, coz everbody else wants one.

THe older markham whalers don't have high enough sides imo, so are crossed off the list as well. Websters, well, i have heard good and bad things re single outboards on cats, but would tend to steer away. The 18' sharkcats i have heard surprisingly little about, but seem to need double the power an equivalent sized mono would.
F & B magazine had a great looking 5 odd metre bare alloy cat a few issues ago that looked the goods and is the sort of thing i want - high sided, plenty of cockpit protection, easy on power (twin yamy f60's from memory), and a little bunk area up front. I don't remember what make it was, but it sticks in my mind as something i would like to own.


Damo

[Noelm]

yep, those older Whalers where a tad on the low side, not all that flash in performance either, the old 18foot Sharkcats were a good old thing as well as being fairly cheap, but they do need some power to get the best out of them, there was a real ripper for sale down Culburra way a while ago that was a mate of mine's practicaly unmarked, but had old in line 6 mercs that were buggered, sold it for 10grand on a good trailer, just keep looking and see what comes up, looks like you are sold on rather small motors (maybe) so you may be limited in what is available, a reasonably good old Aluminium boat (if you can find one) is the Alloycat (brand name) made by twin hull marine in peakhurst in Sydney, they made a 16 and an 18 footer, but they would be getting on now and pretty rare, the 16 footer was fitted with 55HP Johnnos' in it's day, went OK.

[Kerry]

Damo,

Then have you considered a Hydrofield? Small twins go good, not a bad ride, bit wet but better than a mono but even on a bad day most 5 metre anythings are going to get a bit rough, just some rougher than others.

Regards, Kerry.

[Deiter]

first off, Noelm, i am not set on smaller motors, its just preferable i guess. Why get a hull that eats h.p. if i can get one that doesn't. I am only thinking out loud here, as i really don't know.

Kerry, i would definately consider a tri of some description. I know some ppl prefer them over cats!! what can you tell me about them? which are good and which to avoid? handling characteristics? power requirements for size? I have been told they don't need lots of h.p. to perform, but that was one person.

As far as size goes, really don't want anything under 17' or over 19" so i guess that narrows the field.

i feel we are getting somewhere here, cheers.

Damo

[Stuie]

Deiter,
I currently have a 5.5m sailfish platinum with twin 70 Johnson 4 strokes on it. These motors are about the maximum weight for the transom. It would be nice to have twin 90's on the back but to achieve this you would need to go to ETECS or similar direct injected 2 strokes. Having said that the latest release 90hp Honda 4 strokes would be an ideal match. Travelling offshore in good conditions (10 knot winds and 1m seas) I run them at 4500 rpm for 20 mile/hour. At this speed I use a little over 1 litre per kilometre all up. Mine is a 2002 model and has no signs of cracking. If you want to know anything else give me a yell. Also be aware that a 5.5m Sailfish is actually 6.4m overall. Thats over 20 feet.

Stuart.

[No Tiller]

Dieter, Do any manufacturers do this http://www.hydrofoildesign.com/Default.asp?Page=Principles
I no a bloke who has owned 2 done by Cairns Custem Craft . One was brilliant the other not quite balanced
To me Boating hasn't changed in 30 years
surely there is some improvements out there. Drop me a line if you want this fellows number.

[nigelr]

Hi Deiter.
Sorry if I'm a bit off topic, but did you consider a rpv vessel such as a Stabicraft?
If you did, and discarded the idea, I would be grateful to read your reasons, as I am hoping to buy a Stabi style vessel at the end of this year.
Cheers.

[INTIMIDATOR]

Hey Dammo
www.seamedia.com.au (http://www.seamedia.com.au)
Powered CATS of Australia Directory
164 pages At $14.95inc post and handle
Go get one and read it cover to cover 10 times or more
Payney!

[5cougarsthanx]

Damo there is a 5 metre alloy cat in the trading post at the moment.
Cheers
Cougarman

[Kerry]

Damo,

18 foot Hydrofield, not as good a ride as "most" cats but has the stability and could be powered with a 90 or better still around a 115-130, certainly does not require any more and ideally suited to twin 60's (max twin 70's).

Can be wet, as can a lot of boats including cats, simplified trailer much like a cat and certainly better in the trailer department than any mono trailer ever made, not one dam roller or wobble in sight :)

Regards, Kerry.

[trueblue]

Hydrofields are very seaworthy, but I personally don't like the way they corner. And yes, very wet in the 18 footers.

[Deiter]

Kerry / Trueblue, good info, i can't say i am a big fan of getting wet........maybe its just me, been there (c.console:vrolijk_1:), got the raincoat and gumboots.
Again, as long as the cab has front and side clears it don't matter so much.

No Tiller, :)interesting concept. I have wondered how they could be integrated into a rec fishing boat for years. Looks the goods, though the thought of hitting something and ripping it off seems real enough to make me re-assess.:-/

Nigelr, a stabicraft or similar would not be a bad thing, they have some real good points. Unfortunately, I can't buy new in this size atm, and don't see many 2nd hand for sale, and any yard with one wants a gazillion for shit.:smash:

Accolade, spot on, i'll do that.
Probably read it 20 times.:thumbup:

Cougerman, dat da one at reddy bay? If so, i seen it on the net. seems a bit pricey to me.:-/ Haven't had a look though.

Also, Kerry, you know, i guessed you wouldn't like wobble rollers - just too many dam parts to go wrong.:speechless:

Damo

[5cougarsthanx]

Damo,
Ithink its at Victoria Point which is pretty much reddy bay

[5cougarsthanx]

From memory its white with blue stripes and it running mercs

[Kiktz]

I with Fly, the old man has an Allison, even though I rate them in the mono department I would go out on my mates cats. Have to agree there is no ride in any make of mono that is up to Cat standard.

Aj

P.s If you are going to look att Glass cats send me a Pm can send you a couple of builders names that you can see

[copie]

Hi Damo
A mate of mine owns and builds alloy cats "jaycat" his workshop is just around the corner from kevlacat in mooloolaba. He has recently finished a 5.5m cat that runs out of brisbane to flat rock almost every day collecting small salt water fish for commerical aquariums. Two divers that operate the boat say its the softest craft they have used. These guys go out there to work in days we would not consider going anywhere. This i beleive is also the smallest boat they have ever operated. check out his web site and or give JASON a call. offshoremarinemaster.com.au
Good luck Mark

[Trevor2]

What about the NoosaCat 1850?

I thought they would compare well against some of the others. I have not ridden in one but read that they are a good sea boat. I think they are ok with 75's but probably prefer 90's, however not the heavier 4's.

Kind regards Trevor

[Noelm]

I personally think the Noosa cat it pretty ugly, mind you looks do not hinder or help performance, just my thoughts on them.

[Catlover]

Hi All. Thinking about getting a cat in the next year or so, and i am wondering about the different styles of hulls available.

I have absolutely LOVED the ride in the cats i have been on, and the missus has a bad back and complains about the current ride in any chop (5.5m plate 1/2 cab), so the 'magic carpet' seems the way to go, probably between 5 to 5.5m.

Two specific things i am wondering, is -
A) how do the alloy cats in this size range go? Still a good ride? Any issues with welds cracking?

B) what differences are there between symetrical sponsons and asymetrical? Some of the asymetricals i have seen look like a deep V mono with a peice cut from the centreline of the hull. Do they work alright or shite?

Cheers, Damo


Hi Damo.

I build plate alloy power cats on the Sunshine Coast ranging from 5.0m to 7.0m. The ride and handling in our plate alloy cats is unmatched by any mono hull, fibreglass or aluminium. One test run in our boats and you will see the difference. Some plate alloy power cats do have a tendancy to crack if not constructed in the correct manner. We eliminate this by using full bulk heads and large box section to join the sponsons which virtually eliminates hull twist and cracking. You can visit our website and contact us further to arrange an inspection and test run - www.offshoremarinemaster.com.au (http://www.offshoremarinemaster.com.au).

[gavsgonefishing]

I own an old markham whaler 4.3, I use it in conditions up to 20knots. On average it behaves well in the 10 to 15 knots. The boat gets used mainly for light tackle ( up to 100nm per day) but has done heavy tackle runs to the shelf. Overall I am very happy with the set up for the size, economy and what it does.

The assymetrical hull is, in short, crap. It slows the overall speed down (more boat in the water) and dances all over the place. The free board is not really enough and takes a bit to get used to.

gav

[Deiter]

thanx fellas. The Noosa cats i have been in have been THE wettest ride i have ever experienced. Cosmetics aren't of great concern to me, and i don't think they look that bad.

Re Jaycats, they look awesome and i would love to take a ride. Unfortunately, the 5.5m model is about $40K too much, so i will have to give it a miss for now. If my numbers come up saturday night, i'll give you a call, Catlover.

Damo

[Trevor2]

Damo

I was wondering which Noosa Cat you were referring to when you were getting very wet? The article by F&B http://www.noosacat.com.au/pdf/writeup/1850_cuddy.pdf says in a 2.5-3m bar crossing it was very dry.

As I said I have not ridden in an 1850, but with its evolution from the 520/560 I would have thought it to good as was said in the article.

Can you confirm that it was an 1850 you became wet in, or clarify what conditions caused the difference between what you experienced and Peter Websters comments.

Kind regards Trevor

[Kerry]

Gee some of the bigger Cats have to be turned sideways to see where your going, and this is on clam days :)

"Very dry" is all a matter of what might be classed as "very dry", very hard for any boat to stay "very dry" in 2.5-3m conditions, bar or otherwise.

[Deiter]

Trev2, Not exactly sure which models they were, but one around 20' and a couple a bit bigger, around the 23' mark. If you were not inside the cab, you were having a shower. Wasn't in bad weather either.

I know all cats are "wet boats" to a certain extent due to the 'sneezing' effect, but these noosa cats i rode in were akin to a torrential downpour. Could have been setup or balance, don't really know. All i know is that there was blue sky and sunshine at one end of the boat, and other may as well have been underwater.

Damo

[Blackened]

G'day

Well, from personal experiance.... all of the noosa cats i have ridden in have been pretty good as far as a dry ride is concerned.

Dave

[No Tiller]

The only thing I ever got wet in the old 18ft Shark Noosa Cat was my back. Still the best riding 18fter I've been in.

[Grand_Marlin]

I have found the noosacats quite dry.

Given the wrong conditions they are wet ... but so would any boat be in the same conditions.

I have spent some time recently on a Noosacat 2300 Walkaround, and it hasnt put a drop of water on the window as yet

Cheers

Pete

[Kerry]

:) Hey Pete those lever thingies on the right take firm grip and push them FORWARD :)

[Grand_Marlin]

Very Funny Kerry ;D :P

Maybe I could drive it like the 7m Dominator in the bay ... then it would have water on the windscreen :-X :-[

Cheers

Pete

[Noelm]

hey, just to start this all over again, what happened to that Dominator story, was it true, false, confirmed to have been bad driver error or what?? does Markham acknowledge anything, or was the whole thing a hoax??

[JohnCW]

Hi Deiter.
Sorry if I'm a bit off topic, but did you consider a rpv vessel such as a Stabicraft?
If you did, and discarded the idea, I would be grateful to read your reasons, as I am hoping to buy a Stabi style vessel at the end of this year.
Cheers.

Nigel,
As I've just 'discarded the idea' I share my experience with you. This is intended to my honest response to the question based on my experience and I trust stabi owners will not be offended.

I took a 5.5? metre runabout for drive at a demo day a couple of years back. Thought it was fantastic. With this in mind I was all but sold on a 609 Super Cab, just need to take it for a drive to be 100% certain I thought. So about 2 weeks ago I took one for a drive. Walked away from this test drive crossing it completely off the short list.

I thought it was too light and bounced across the chop rather than driving through it. Stability at rest while ok, but wasn't anthing super special. Even the dealer commented how the bigger sizes sit more in the water while I was just letting the boat sit in the slop (he must have been a mind reader). He was running the line that it would go much better when fully fitted out with more weight. What was that going to be, put the anchor in the front well instead of under the seat, and fit a GPS, fishfinder???

So summing up, I still think the smaller size narrow beam boat was terrific, the bigger 6 metre was not as good a performer for a bigger craft. Why the difference? IMO, the smaller size was 16 degree deadrise and a narrow beam. The 609 was a wide beam 20 degree deadrise, and a rather lightweight hull for its size. The smaller boat seemed to sat down nicely in the water, both underway and at rest. The 609 just wasn't heavy enough for the wide beam and 20 degree deadrise. Both ride and stability suffered as a result.

As I still couldn't overnight in the 609 without having to undertake modifications, for around $80K all up, I walked away believing I can do better.

Trust that helps.

Regards,
John

[Noelm]

and there is the fact that Stabi's look pretty sad (I reckon anyway)

[nigelr]

Thanks for your reply John CW, your first hand info is priceless.
I would be looking at the 5.1m boat, around $35k roughly.
Somehow I am sure an $80k budget would get you something very special, least I'd want it to, and I'm dsure you do as well.
Good luck with your search, and thanks again for you reply.
I am tending to lean more towards the Mini Offshore pictured and described at the site below.
http://www.dinkiedi.com/
Aussie made and comes with a few more options as standard than the Stabi.
Cheers.

[finding_time]

Giday Damo

What you need is one of these, not this one though as i've just put a deposit on it:D :D :D :D :D :D The mighty ub 520 ( last picture) is soon to be on the market though;)

Ian

[Deiter]

Geez, Ian, very nice. You moved house eh?

Looks like a 1900???? Is that twin F60's on the back also? Very nice combo anyway.
I had to turn down a trip with the lads on the big Coastal Cat today - bloody night shift. I was about a whiskar away from calling in with that flu that is going around. Weather pattern looks awesome atm.

So when do you take delivery, might have to come check it out, and get some readings off your shark pod while i'm at it.

Damo

[finding_time]

Looks like a 1900???? Is that twin F60's on the back also? Very nice combo anyway.
I
Damo




No mate just the 5.2m still a big step up from my other 5.2. They are the high thust yami f60's, all the talk says there a very nice match. The boat runs very well but will take a fair bit of mental ajustment comming a mono, eg very strange to lean out on a corner:o still how many corners do you go around offshore

ian

[Deiter]

There you go, i thought a 1900 was the 5.2m model. Bloody manufacturers, why can't they just call a spade a shovel? I get more confused all the time.

Bit like the two guys i heard talking here at work the other day. Both own Barcrushers. One fellow says he's got the 6.1m model, other says he's got a 560. They were comparing notes, the ride and handling of each, when i couldn't stand it any longer and jumped in to tell them they both own the same bloody hull!!!

Damo

p.s. how you gonna turn the new baby in the driveway?

[finding_time]

That's the reason the misses gave me the go ahead........ there is no way i can store it at my place and she couldn't be happier

[Deiter]

So you keeping it somewhere else then?

I'll look after it for ya:)

[Kerry]

Well the 5.2KC was called a 2000 (to suit the yank market), 6.2KC 2300, 6.5KC became a 2400 (never got to the yank market) and the 7.2 was a 2800, which has absolutely nothing to do with the length, especially the 7.2, which is actually less than 23 foot, go figure.

They scrap the original 5.2KC, extend it to handle 4S's and call it a 5.8 (2100) and now re-make what they call the 5.2 and call it a 1900 ?????

So now there's the old 5.2 (2000) and the new 5.2 (1900) and what finding_time has gone into would appear to tbe a 2000?

Regards, Kerry.

[blaze]

what about a 6.5m semi displacement cat that will cruise at16knts and current top speed of 20knts with twin 30hp outboards, about to be repowered with twin 60 etecs with a expected cruise of 25knots in semi displacement.
cheers
blaze