Cavitating Props on Sailfish Cat

[SnapHead101]

Hi all,
Have just bought a new Sailfish 8.5 m x 3 m with twin 175 hp suzuki. The boat is currently riding hard in that I can't trim the bow up and it hits hard on small waves (more than .5 m). When I trim the engines up past 5/8 ths (halfway betw 1/2 and 3/4 trim) the props loose their bite, rpm's gain 1000 rev and boat speed drops about eight to ten knots. If I trim the engines back down the props bite and speed increases but the ride is terrible. I had the engines dropped two knotches to the lowest, the cav plate is underwater and had permatrims fitted, but not much changed. Has anyone had this problem and how did you fix it? I've approached solas and am waiting for a reply .. their initial response was getting cupped blades , however another prop specialist suggested getting four bladed props instead . Not sure what to do. Any help would be appreciated , getting close to sinking the boat and taking up golf .

[Chimo]

Hi SH 101

Have you talked to the Sailfish people? They sell direct and above all should know the boat and be able to help. If they can't help, your on the right track about selling the boat, but golf is going a little bit too far!

Good Luck

Cheers

Chimo

[trueblue]

Take the boat up to Solas and get them to go on a test run with you (try to get good weather for it). Get them to bring 3 and 4 bladed props, with and without cupping.

Try with all fo them and see what is best.

Standard Solas 4 bladers have a fair bit of cupping anyway and give fantastic bite in the water.

Thats not saying that Solas props will suit your boat, but Solas are good to work with and you can run multiple prop combinations till you get it right.

Cheers

Mick

[Cloud_9]

if your trimimg past half way your past the point of trim and your in the tilt area.
if the boats a pig dropping engines deeper is only going to stuff your engines. Suzies are known for not likeing to sit too deep in the water.( you dropped the motor 2 holes )
if you can afford a 8m boat get someone ( a professional ) to look at it.
the boys at the place you got it from should be able to help you.
just a thought. how fast are you going for the boat to bash in .5 chop.
admittedly I've only been in 1 cat and it bashed the whole trip.
the guy driveing was more interested with fuel conservation than boat ride.
and from most of the people ive seen with cats they ride good going quick not slow.
just my thoughts.
playing with engine height is not a good thing ether.
the manufacturer generaly sets the boat up for the optimum ride and handleing.
if they didn't you should have done your home work better.
Cloud 9

[Cloud_9]

P.S cavitating problem is not realy problem i think your just triming TOO far.
I've had a few boats now and been involved a fairbit with testing new boats and with different motors and unless you have some pretty fancy props most out boards cant hold trim past half way on the gauge unless your doing warp 9
my old merc 90 2003 model was just shy of half before it lost its grip and that was at 54 mph. etecs with their long swept back racking blades get a tad more than half on the gauge.
Cloud 9

[PinHead]

Just wait till Kerry gets here..you will get the lecture on ventilation vs cavitation

[Cloud_9]

shite thought id get shaimed for being harsh.
cloud 9

[INTIMIDATOR]

Hey sh101
Its a new boat mate, take it back and tell em not happy Jan!!
Sound's like the tunnell is too shallow if it's pounding on half a metre chop.
Did ya go for a test run in 1 before ya ordered?
Good luck anyway mate that's a big investment to be a pig
Let us know the out come
Cheers anyway Payney!

[trueblue]

not enough information yet to be able to discuss cavitation verses ventilation......

[SnapHead101]

The boat was ordered new directly through Sailfish, all the engine changes to height etc have been done in consultation with them. As these are custom made boats it's not possbile to drive before you buy. I did look at a very similar Sailfish operated from Brunswick (Mono fishing charters) and Mono said he was absolutely delighted with the ride etc. The engines cavitate in the trim not tilt area ( I can tell the difference) and the boat in my opinion needs to be riding nose higher, although having said that all my 25 years experience in boats has been bar one day spent in mono hulls. The one day I spent in a 23 ft shark cat I was blown away by it's ride. Currently I can drive my 4.5 m tinny faster than this boat.
Wether the props are ventilating or cavitating I don't know as I don't know the difference. Whats happening is the props loose their bite as I trim up, rise 1000 rpm or so in engine speed and the boat looses up to ten knots speed. However unlike cavitations I've had in mono's I can get the props to bite again by lowering the engines to previous trim settings.
What's currently happening is that Sailfish has involved Solas to try prop changes as they also fitted out Mono's Sailfish although he has hondas. My reason for asking advice here is it seems there is a wealth or knowledge available and the pro's don't always get it right.

[hungry6]

Just on a curious note. You said, you were blown away by the performance of a 23' sharkcat, and you went and bought a sailfish? Doesn't add right in my book.
Apart from that, tow the boat back to the manufacturer, they have a duty to deliver a proper functioning package. You have paid them to build a boat, and they should make it work!!! I wouldn't even bother with solas or anyone, as this would hold better argument for the boat builder if all goes pear shape. Because what you are doing is deem interfering with OEM goods.

[trueblue]

I'd say wait for Solas to do their thing - then look at it after that.

[Kerry]

Bit hard comparing a 8m Sailfish to a 23 foot Sharkcat. Have you ever given it a thought that it might simply be a dog?

For a start take those bloody fins off as while you have foils on a cat you really don't know where you are, absolutely dangerous on a cat and simply should not be required, ever, never.

So this setup got pods or wells?


....Just wait till Kerry gets here..you will get the lecture on ventilation vs cavitation....

And yes pinhead it does look like the message is finally getting through and what's more others like your good self are championing the cause, well done :) keep up the good work.

[Cloud_9]

on the custom boat part .
I'm in the process of building a custom boat and i got a test run in sister boat and made my choice.
is the boat you bought the same as mono's boat or just the same brand.
mono's boat is in survey that means built not to sink and that adds wieght. or the fuel tanks too far forward??
I know feom the dealing i've had with small boat builders they cant always do the research and development untill a customer says i want this. if it works then a development has taken place. if the nose of your boat is too heavy no amount of HP or trim will lift it. like i said earlier i've been involved in a lot of testing with boats and motors and the deference between 2 brands is sometimes substantial.
some manufactures spend lots on engine refinements and zip on propeller testing.
yamaha for 1 gives a crap propeller with their motors . merc give a good one but the sizes available is shite.
BRP have spent millions on prop testing to get it right. and you can get just about any size you need within reason.
on a different note do you have enough HP on the back???
you said that you have 175 suzies. 4 strokes. thats about 140 in 2 stroke terms.
how big are mono's motors.
you got 30+ feet of block in the water to move. and as yet people still think 2 stroke hp and 4 stroke HP are the same . I can tell you THAT IS BOLLOCKS.
with the testing bit i've been involved in we put a 60 4 banger on a 6 meter boat
and it wouldn't even get on the plane.
we put a crappy old 30 HP tahatsu and it handle the 6 metre boat fine it did 35 kmh.
the fly guys are the same for some reason they all think the 60 4 stroke yammie is the holy grail of outboards why I dont know!
4 strokes are far too over rated.
big boats need grunt and 4 strokes dont have any.
Cloud 9

[INTIMIDATOR]

Agree with what you say Cloud 9.
And i know where your comming from.
But i would strongly recomend a go at the new 175 suzi's before you get too carried away.
Think you my be a little impressed,i know i was
Regards Payney!

[dfox]

Jamie, mono has 150's on his and i'd say that the 175's are ample.
Theres alot of unknown variables with this one and a simple answer is hard to say. I agree with kerry, get rid of the foils. The props maybe wrong, but i'd like to see the boat trim itself with any prop first. It should be possiable to either bury the nose or ride nose high even with props that arent perfect.
I believe the boat should be ballanced the engine hights and the riding stance of the vessel worked out before a third party (solas) is brought into the problem , watching with interest to the out comes ...foxy

[SnapHead101]

The hull is the same as mono's with the exception I have a longer cabin and more weight over the centre and the stern. However Mono takes out 6 to 8 people and I think this easily makes up for the weight difference. As I live in Mackay and Sailfish is in Lismore it's around 2200 km round trip, so not an easy task to drop the boat back. The boat is certainly not underpowered , 3500 rpm and 20 knots, 6000 rpm and 42 knots, if I accelerate with any sort of vigour it will throw people off their feet, I now warn people in a loud voice before accelerating so they can hold on !
Sailfish have involved solas to work out the problem. I am under the impression that Sailfish didn't have the boat in the sea, only the river before sending it up, so consequently the problem of sea handling wasn't known to them.

The reason I bought a 28 ft Sailfish instead of a 23 ft Sharkcat was size and family friendlyness. Essentially I need a boat big enough to sleep on with the family overnight or something I can fish a couple of days on the reef with a couple of blokes.

[mono]

Hi SH 101, mate sounds like you have a bit of a problem. I'm not sure what the answer is but speaking from the experience of owning a couple of Sailfish I can offer the following.
Let Solas have a look first. This company really seem to know there business.
My old boat 'Cavanbah' was only 7.5 x 2.4 and performed ok with the original 115 Yamies but once I put the bigger 130 Hondas on the performce and handling improved markedly. I think this was due to the fact the heavier Hondas made the boat sit lower at the transom.
On my new vessel 'Windarra' I have had 150 Hondas on for the past year. Because 'Windarra' is a lot bigger boat than my previous I cant really compare the performance, but, it is a little cabin heavy and is hard to pull the bow up if everyone (8 people) are all up front in the cabin.
On most days it will ride great and I have found 'the harder you push it the better it rides.'
There is a fine line between the ultimate trim position and starting to cavatat. Every day is a little different and depends on were the weight is located, how much fuel-water ect. I even notice the difference from the trip out to returning home. If we have had a good day there could be 100kg plus of fish in the esky so it is moved to the back of the boat for the trip home, it makes a difference.
When I change motors in the next 12 months I will be going for bigger motors again. Honda's men, who have been on the boat regularly, think I should be running the 225's, and I must agree. The extra bit of grunt on a 3 tonne boat wnt go to waste.
I know this hasnt probably helped you solve your problem but at the end of the day the only thing you can do is phone Darryn and TELL him to solve it. If you spent that sort of money on a vehicle and it didnt perform satisfactorily what would you do?
I have found the whole crew from Sailfish more than willing to help out with any problems.
Good luck with it.
Cheers
Capt Mark 'Mono' Stewart

[Kerry]

Even comparing a 23 sharkcat to a 28 foot sharkcat the difference might surprise as bigger is not always better as the 23 is a much better boat than the 28. The 28 might be bigger but it is heavier and lands a lot harder. The 23 SC is what basically all other sharkcats are compared and on a length v what it does there's not a lot of other SC designs that even come close.

But surely nobody builds a 28 foot boat and doesn't (bother) actually sea trial the thing properly! There does appear quite a few unknowns in all of this and Sailfish appear to be one of them.

[FNQCairns]

Yeah throw the fins - always throw the fins, there is simply no chance of setting a boat up properly with them on. If you can reach 6k with new engines you must be proped pretty well for that prop brand anyway.

IMO without the fins on drop it down 2 holes to suck it and see, you need something to base from. If you find you lose 200rpm at WOT the revs are still in the ballpark and will get better as the engine loosens up. If you loose too much go up a hole.
The style of prop makes a huge difference a person still cannot go past the traditional performance propeller brands.
cheers fnq

[Kerry]

....Honda's men, who have been on the boat regularly, think I should be running the 225's, and I must agree. The extra bit of grunt on a 3 tonne boat wnt go to waste..... :o Unreal:speechless:

[DALEPRICE]

gday sh101, given what mono has just gorn over why
dont you get a 200l esky stick it down the back and fill it
with water and play around with a bit of weight distribution ?
dont have a clue about cats just a thought .
cheers dale
good luck

[SnapHead101]

The fins are off and the engines are as low as they will go. I'll wait and see what solas comes up with which may take awhile , as they will be sending props up from down South up to Mackay.
Thanks very much for your input Mono, it was after seeing your boat that I decided to go ahead with mine. I was there the day you came back in over the bar in a seven metre swell. PS Got the JRC FF50 and Lowrance 7500 from Trymax - absolutely great, ended up getting a 17 inch LCD from coles of all places which I then hooked up to a JVC car dvd player ... best thing for my 2 year old daughter , lets my wife and I fish for 90 minutes at a time !!

[mono]

Hi SH101, from that little photo on your avatar it looks like one hell of a vessel! Any chance you can post a couple of bigger pics here for us?
She looks awesome.
Cheers

[SnapHead101]

Hi Mono, I've included four photos. The hull is similar dimensions to yours, ie 8.5 x 3 metres. The cabin comes back further and has the toilet in a seperate compartment at the back port side. It was initially going to be a step down toilet but Darren thought it would take up too much room and changed it. In hindsight I would have had the toilet countersunk into the sponson with only about a metre above the deck to act as a table for tacke dive cameras etc. It would make it more difficult accessing the loo but that's a trade off. I may get it modified in the future if I can find someone in Mackay to do it. The cabin has a U shaped lounge with drop down table and a backrest that folds up to form a small bunk (kid size). On the starboard side behind the drivers seat is a stove, slide out waeco and upright fridge. Up front is a large bed approx 3 metres wide and 2 metres long. These dimensions are essentially two queen size beds side by side, I have as yet not put in a divider. I got windscreen water washer put in on your advice ... very good advice. I've also got a hatch above the driver, should have got one on the port side as well as it gets very warm up here. If you have any over shots of the boat you would like to see let me know.
If and when I get the boat sorted out I plan on seeing if you'll let me charter your boat sometime and give me some lessons on what to do. I'm not keen on riding Darren too hard at the moment and will alow sometime for solas to get things moving (Darren from Sailfish contacted Solas) . If my expectations are realised with this boat I may very well be approaching Sailfish to build another one !! (I've got a heap more ideas now on how I want to improve it!) ... Yes I'm a self confessed boat a holic and proud of it.

[seatime]

That's a fantastic lookin boat mate, hope you get it sorted.

cheers
Steve

[trueblue]

Beautiful looking boat.

Have you got a photo of the engine from 90 degrees side on, with the motor down and cav plate parallel with the bottom of the hull? (Photo taken from about the same height as the bottom of the hull?

Cheers

Mick

[Greg P]

That is some serious coin there :o:o

What r u towing it with ? is that a Landy ;)

[trueblue]

some manufactures spend lots on engine refinements and zip on propeller testing.
yamaha for 1 gives a crap propeller with their motors . merc give a good one but the sizes available is shite.
BRP have spent millions on prop testing to get it right. and you can get just about any size you need within reason.Cloud 9

Great to see someone else saying this about Yammy props...

My comment here has nothing to do with this thread though.


Cheers

Mick

[SnapHead101]

Here are side shots of the starboard engine at trim full up and trim full down. The PVC pipe is clamped to the cav plate so you can see where it intersects with the bottom of the keel/hull which has a white aerial placed along it's length. The sternmost 50 cm of the keel slopes upwards.

Thanks for the compliments, yes it's serious coin, but the seas in Mackay are some of the nastiest I've seen. The boat is towed (not above 80 km/h which is the trailer limit as it so happens) by a 1996 130 defender. Manages well although acceleration is not in the dictionary when towing !

[DALEPRICE]

what a boat !!!!
awesome
cheers dale

[Kerry]

Based on those side on shots the relationship of the plate to the bottom of the hull wouldn't appear to be of much concern.

However what might ask questions is that sharp upturned section at the bottom of what one might call a claytons pod?

Regards, Kerry.

[Kerry]

Unrelated to the prop issue BUT why do you have four (4) axles under this trailer.

Didn't you mention somewhere the boat was only 3 tonne?

But out of interest what does the compliance say (ATM/GTM), what you towing this with (landrover?) and would be interested in the all wheel braking setup, brake system (all hydraulic or electric over hydraulic and the number of brake controllers.

Regards, Kerry.

[Kerry]

Also all those holes along the bottom of the defacto pod, there purpose is?

Any chance that when this thing is underway there is enough air flow over/through the inside of the hull that could aerate in front of the engine, similar to the airflow under a hydrofield?

Regards, Kerry.

[Noelm]

I would be thinking that the bottom of those "mini pods" SHOULD be completely out of the water when on the plane, as the true bottom of the hull is well below them (so it seems) so they should not cause any drama from a cavitation perspective, not too sure why they have those holes though, seems they would fill with water when at rest, weighing down the stern further! but who knows huh!, I have done a bit of fooling aound hanging off the stern of cats under way to see where the water flow is and it is not quite as it would appear to "normal thinking"

[SnapHead101]

The holes in the stern are actually in the "pod" basically it's a berley pot and the holes are to let berley out. That area is above the water on the plane (I'm pretty sure) and both engines cavitate , not one so I can't see it being related to the holes.
Re the axles, the boat is about 3 tons the trailer is 860 kg , the quad axle was at the advice of the builder Sailfish who knows more about trailers than I do. The tow vehicle is a Landrover dual cab 130 tdi 1996 model. Legally can tow 4 tons, they decreased to 3.5 tons when ABS was introduced. When I say it can tow the boat , I obviously still plan ahead as to what I'm doing , ie watch for red lights, uphills etc idiots in utes who like to get close alongside in roundabouts to check out the boat not realising we are going from two to one lanes and I'm not giving way!!!
Standing start on any rise is done in low range with a change to high at about 10 km/h , this makes it slow around town, however once all the problems with the boat are sorted I intend to keep it in a secure facility about 200 metres from a ramp.
The braking system on the trailer is a hydrastar 1200 HBA series electric over hydraulic (check the dunbier website for details. I can't fault the system so far, it can brake harder than the car if I desire, and can lock up all four axles if adjusted for full braking power. The car has a Tekonsha prodigy controller which I've had a few problems with but is working ok now, although I may have to swap to a voyager (long story re compatibility and a clicking noise from the braking unit) .

ANyhow got an email back from solas today who suggest cupping the props. So I'll get it done and then post the results along with speed / ride / fuel economy figures etc if people are interested ( I was when buying this boat).

[seatime]

sounds like the way to go with cupping the props, maybe look again at the weight distribution, e.g. where's the FW tank. can some weight be moved aft.
possibly try a few 40kg sand bags around the boat when testing props.

wish it was me with the dilemma. I'm confident you'll get it fixed.

cheers

[INTIMIDATOR]

SH101
Mate!
I'll tell you what i think but i warn you you probably don't want too read any further!

That tunnell would work fine in the brissy river but that is NOT an offshore hull.

Even the size of the wave breaker is a joke!

You sure have got alot of weight foward without going into detail with position's of fuel tank's/water tank's ect.
Changing prop's are a fine tune thing only ! What your running with sound's about right.
You can drop your motor's down a couple or three holes but at the end of the day mate that nose will never lift and give you that 23'shark cat ride.
Sorry to say it mate but i think she's Not going to be what you hopped.
It must of cost you 2 arm's & 2 leg's.
I wish you the best of luck with your problem solving and i would strongly insist that the manufacturer tell you how many other boat's of simmilar size they have they built. I'm guessing not many! Also see If you can talk to the owners of these boats too see if they have had any problems.
Their will be other's that will not agree with what i've said but you carn't argue with common sence!
All the best mate
Cheer's Payney

[Cloud_9]

I thought i wass the only one that could see the light.
Accolade has just said the exact same thing i said 2 pages ago.
sailfish might build a beaut boat and it looks great too.
but you have 1 hell of a cab there and you say the weight is mid to aft.
Mono could you post a pic of your pride and joy please to show the comparison.
with that much weight forward its not going to ride nose up.
the props look fine maybe a 4 blade might help but the blades you have look like they have a good rake .
and as i said earlier development and testing is expencive for small boat builders.
as mate of mine says i'll build you what ever you want but i cant guarantee it will work.
best of luck anyway.
Cloud 9

[trueblue]

From the looks of the photos you should be deep enough to be getting good clean water over the props provided the motors are mounted in the best lateral position. I have seen a cat previously (Can't for the life of me remember the brand) that had the motors mounted a couple of inches outside the centre line of the hull keels to get away from bubbles coming down the centre.

I agree with cupping the props as a first attempt to stop it cavitating (If thats what it is). A solid cupping will add about the equivalent of another inch of pitch to the props, and seeing as you are at 6000 rpm already you've got room to play with. The couple of hundred revs you lose should be regained anyway though by being able to trim out a little further after cupping.

If that helps, I would be inclined to change to a cupped 4 blade prop as that will be much better again for applied torque and bite in the water.

I also agree with comments above of sandbags to play with weight distribution as well during prop testing.

If you still don't get any success with cupping, I would drop the motor another inch and try again with the cupped 3 blade props just to see how it goes. It may be getting airated water from in between the hulls.

Another thing, I would get a spotter boat behind you when testing the props to get a real good look at what the water is doing as it comes out of the back of the boat under the hull. Get 2 experienced people in the spotter boat - one to watch and observe, and the other to take stacks and stacks of high speed photos. You will need heaps of photos because most won't turn out well. Because you can't easily take the boat to Solas, photos will be a great help, and from various positions behind the boat you will get the best view of exactly what is happening. It is also much safer than someone hanging off the back of the boat to try and work out what is happening.

Best when taking photos etc to have all transduecers etc off the back so as to clear the view by removing excess spray.


Regards

Mick

[mono]

Hi Cloud9, from viewing the attached photos my cabin area doesnt seem anywere near as large as SH101's. Sorry about the quality of the photos- I just cant seem to work them out since the changes to ausfish system a few months ago! I'll get it right one day!!
Cheers

[Noelm]

a boat with ENOUGH power should be able to deal with the difference in weight from a smaller cab to the one on this boat, it takes extreme amount of unbalance to not be able to compensate with motor trim, been in enough Commercial cats carrying literally tons of moveable load and given correct power most can be dealt with.

[Kerry]

The issue of the wavebreak is neither here nor there. The presence of or lack of a wavebreak does not mean a great lot in the context of being a so called "offshore" boat or not.

The original 23 foot Sharkcat that many still continue to compare things with these days never had a wave break but that did not stop it.

Steve,

Has this rig ever been over the scales? As an observation those 4 axles even make this thing "look" heavy. At 3 tonne 4 axles is a bit of an overkill as even a 7m Kevlacat which is over 4 tonne is quite comfortably handled (with spare capacity) by a tri axle trailer, a 23 Sharkcat only requires 3 as does a 28 sharkcat.

At 4 axles just increases the rate at which trailer tyres are scrubbed out and would appear to have 1 axle more than necessary and an additional set of brakes (more maintenance) you didn't need to have? Anyway this isn't your water problem but an actual weight would be interesting.

Also do you have (or can you get) any pics looking from behind straight down the cenetre of the tunnel and one dead in line along the keel line (from behind the outboard).

Regards, Kerry.

[Mr__Bean]

SH101,

On the subject of 3 or 4 blade props, I have an 8 metre hardtop plate ally Mono. It is driven by a single 225 outboard with a 4 blade solas prop. The prop grabs the water very well with great punch down low rather than slipping. My trim gauge is the standard Yammy with 0-6 grades of trim on the guage. The boat rides happiest at just over 3 units of trim, under that the nose is starting to cut into the waves rather that riding over them.

If I trim further out speed actually starts to drop off and at nearly 4 units (of the six) the prop looses grip. So, I don't think 4 blades will give you any better hold of the water at higher trim angles, and I too am dubious whether any of the cupping etc will assist with lifting the nose higher than you are experiencing now.

I remain hopeful and interested to hear the results, but I gotta say that is a big cabin you are asking to be lifted.

There has also been comments about engine rpm at WOT, please keep in mind that the engines should be able to operate under their intended load with a full boatload of passengers, gear and fuel. This will mean that the engines will have the ability to rev over the rpm limit if you are very light on load, the boat must be driven with an awareness of this.

Anyway, hope you can get it sorted, it does look a magnificent boat.

- Darren

[Chimo]

[quote=SnapHead101;585353]
Re the axles, the boat is about 3 tons the trailer is 860 kg , the quad axle was at the advice of the builder Sailfish who knows more about trailers than I do. The tow vehicle is a Landrover dual cab 130 tdi 1996 model. Legally can tow 4 tons, they decreased to 3.5 tons when ABS was introduced.

The braking system on the trailer is a hydrastar 1200 HBA series electric over hydraulic (check the dunbier website for details. I can't fault the system so far, it can brake harder than the car if I desire, and can lock up all four axles if adjusted for full braking power. The car has a Tekonsha prodigy controller which I've had a few problems with but is working ok now, although I may have to swap to a voyager (long story re compatibility and a clicking noise from the braking unit) .

quote]
Hi SH101

Re your braking issue.

I have been thru the Hydrastar / Tekonsha / wiring ; learning curve and I agree they are a very good simple system that does not need extras to allow you to back the boat trailer.

Also don't leave your foot on the brakes at lights, rail crossings etc use the handbrake as the HBA pump is on the whole time your foot is on the brake.

BUT you have to ditch the Tekonsha Prodigy and get a Tek. Voyager. The Carlisle site specifies this and it is correct.

ALSO make sure you have 12 v power from contact no 2 on your vehicle. (Rear back up light I think) The brakes need the 12v from this source to operate.

AND make sure the wire size on the vehicle from the Voyager to the rear plug is the correct guage. You need at least 6mm wire.

IMPORTANT to also instal the 20 or in your case could be 30 amp auto reset circuit breaker between the 12v battery and the Voyager unit (Black wire to Voyager) This is not supplied with the HBA or the Tekonsha Voyoager but you do need it.

Hope you sort out the Sailfish by the way, looked at them some time ago but I think I like the Commander Cat more.

Cheers

Chimo

[nelton87]

SH101,
Could you please advise if you have tried the genuine Suzuki 4 blade props or only the Solas. These engines can run the larger diameter prop of 16 inch diameter and they make alot of difference compared to the smaller suzuki diameter props from suzuki or solas.
Try contacting your local suzuki dealer or get onto Ryan at Haines Suzuki Marine in wacol in Brisbane. He will be very helpfull, However he will need to know what you presently have on the vessel.
IMO I have had great success with foils on cats but only certain types, The last ones I used came from Power Cat at Caboulture and they are made by them and they actually work exceptionally well.
I found they actually assisted in reducing cavatation, But this will open another argument from scepticals.
Regards
Nelton

[Fish Guts]

The issue of the wavebreak is neither here nor there. The presence of or lack of a wavebreak does not mean a great lot in the context of being a so called "offshore" boat or not.

The original 23 foot Sharkcat that many still continue to compare things with these days never had a wave break but that did not stop it.

Steve,

Has this rig ever been over the scales? As an observation those 4 axles even make this thing "look" heavy. At 3 tonne 4 axles is a bit of an overkill as even a 7m Kevlacat which is over 4 tonne is quite comfortably handled (with spare capacity) by a tri axle trailer, a 23 Sharkcat only requires 3 as does a 28 sharkcat.

At 4 axles just increases the rate at which trailer tyres are scrubbed out and would appear to have 1 axle more than necessary and an additional set of brakes (more maintenance) you didn't need to have? Anyway this isn't your water problem but an actual weight would be interesting.

Also do you have (or can you get) any pics looking from behind straight down the cenetre of the tunnel and one dead in line along the keel line (from behind the outboard).

Regards, Kerry.


The trailer having 4 axles or 7 is irrelevant. i think it may be a bit front heavy but this boat should not be written off as a dud by a few who have. it may mean shifting your water tanks or fuel tanks back more but def is possible to fix.

smart looking boat you have there. good luck with it all.

kerry, what have u got piled into that 7m kevlacat to weigh more than 4 tonnes. geez she must be full of 45 gallon drums.

good to see another cat with suzis !!

cheers
fishguts

[INTIMIDATOR]

hey sh101

Don't know if you want to hear this or not but i carn't sugar coat it

Spoke to another boat builder today at work about your problem,he has had alot more to do with building cats than me , apart from saying he feels sorry for you he commented that that huge cab is where all your problems are.
All your doing is trimming out your motor's in an attempt to lift that nose and it ain't going to happen.
That hull of your's would work fine on a centre console but it simply carn't handle all that forward weight.
You could try putting 10 big bloke's down the back it would help but is not the answer your looking for.
I don't know if you started out with a pritty simple cab and then got carried away with glass window's galley shower/toilet ect but alot more thought should have gone into the hull design to compensate for the LCG.(Lateral centre of gravity)
Also mate , just a word of warning ,in a med to large following sea i think it will roll over on you so please be extra carefull when going down a large swell.
I haven't got the time to go into all the detail of what i know or think is a offshore hull , with a sutable wave breaker without standing infront of a blackboard.
In fact i don't go on Ausfish much because it seen's to turn into more of a winging and bitching match when all the armchair experts come out to play.
Bring back the old day's when you could get a bit of frendly advice or a good laugh at the end of a hard days work!
On the prop isue.
Don't bother changing to a 4 or 5 blade prop as they give the arse more lift not more grip,Suzi swing larger prop's than most so if you carn't get grip with on off these something else is very wrong. And as far as cupping goes you far away from worring about that. When you see Steve from Solas he will tell you the same as we have been down this road before.
Once again mate good luck but this is not a quick fix it's a major.
Take or leave my advice it don't mean jack to me. But to other's who don't agree with what i say , do the letter's FO mean anyting to you!
Cheer's Payney!

[Kerry]

Fishguts,

The balance of the boat has everything to do with the designer / manufacturer and should not even be an issue for the owner, this should have all been worked out BEFORE the boat ever left the factory.

This should not be a fix in the first instance regarding props as there appears a much different problem here than simply props?

As for the trailer have 4 or 7 axles and being irrelvant? You bet it is revelent as why the hell have 4 of everything when only 3 would do the job quite nicely, until I see the weight of this boat then from what I understand this axle thing is a complete rip off, totally over the top.


....kerry, what have u got piled into that 7m kevlacat to weigh more than 4 tonnes. geez she must be full of 45 gallon drums....

This is where many do not realize just how big a 7m KC is! There is simply no other 7m vessel made (that I am aware off) that has the capacity and capability of carrying something like twin 6 cyl diesels on shafts or sterndrives (completely under floor level) along with quite a fuel capacity and range, simply nothing.

A 7m KC at 4.5 tonne (max) will sit quite comfortably on 3 axles, no problem what so ever, geez even 2 axles will handle up to 3.5 tonne without a problem. A 4.5 tonne 7m KC just needs a tractor to tow the dam thing and in fact this very setup was based in Mackay and was towed from the other side of Mount Pleasant out to the harbour, with a registered tractor, 3 axles and all.

Regards, Kerry.

[seatime]

hey sh101

I don't know if you started out with a pritty simple cab and then got carried away with glass window's galley shower/toilet ect but alot more thought should have gone into the hull design to compensate for the LCG.(Lateral centre of gravity)

Take or leave my advice it don't mean jack to me. But to other's who don't agree with what i say , do the letter's FO mean anyting to you!
Cheer's Payney!

LCG (Lateral centre of gravity), never heard of it, and not sure how it applies to this cat :o .
lateral problems would cause listing port or starboard. ;)
There could be an issue with LCG (longitudinal centre of gravity) & LCF (longitudinal centre of flotation) not being in the desired positions.

What about one of those hydrofoils thingy's positioned in the tunnel forward to provide lift?

FO ? that's Fuel Oil, isn't it? ;D ;D

[hungry6]

SH101, please keep us update on this matter. It would be tremendous if all this just requires a quick prop fix. From the photos you posted, it looked like you have spend alot of time and effort into getting what you wanted in a boat and it is disheartening to have it not perform as you have like.
I got a NC 2300 CC and I bought it pretty much on the same ground as you did, luckily mine works straight of the trailer.
I hope the experience does not make you shy away from boat or cats for that matter.
cheers
wayne

[Chimo]

SH 101

No doubt the boat thing will be sorted out in time.

The brake thing is of interest though.
Is it safe to assume that you have a steep ramp at Mackay, you probably launch at the marina, and if memory serves it looked pretty steep but I did only see it from a Perry as we fueled up.

If the HBA 12 unit on the front of the trailer hits the water while launching or retrieving it is possible you could kill it.

I would have thought it would have been installed higher on a platform, along with the battery to reduce this risk.

Hope I'm wrong but thought I'd mention it just in case.

Cheers

Chimo

[INTIMIDATOR]

Hey their gelsec
I alway's get them mixed up!
So i stand corrected.
I was trying to get home in time to change it! OOPS to late
Like you style though
Cheer's Payney!

[insideout]

gday mate , i currently own a kev cat 2400 ,which has twin 140 suzis , and is very trim sensitive, but the boat before was a kev cat 3800 flybridge, with 2 x 250 suzi 4st ,and i found out that with a boat of that size, the trim works very little, and i found that out at the worse possible time, when we were crossing the wide bay bar( on one of its not so good days) on the trip home after taking delivery.It is true what has been said about running down the swell in a large,untrimed boat, very scary!!

I think that boats that size with outboards are very marginal in there trim settings, after being on other boats the same size, and seeing them all preform the same way.

i know my old boat had some issues from weight in the flybridge that affected the trim, and hopefully its not the same for you.
i know what you are feeling and hope you get a successful outcome.

[SnapHead101]

Thanks all for your advice and support. Whilst the cabin looks and is large it is all made from alloy and as such should not be too heavy, certainly not as much as glass. Given that Mono's cat runs well with a full load of people, fuel , fish etc I believe (and hope) that mine will work out. Yes it should have been worked out prior to leaving the factory during a sea trial but unfortunately it wasn't and I was not aware until the first time I took the cat out in a blow. The props left this arvo for solas and as soon as they are back from their cupping I'll be testing and reporting back to this forum.
Re the braking unit and getting wet on launching .. very unlikely to occur, I can and have retrieved and launched the boat single handed very easily, the trailer is currently working much better than the boat !!
Sailfish advised four axles would be better than three esp when coming over the lip of steep ramp and having one axle unloaded. Either way my experience is in boats but not trailers of this magnitude !

[INTIMIDATOR]

hey sh101
Just to be be clear on the construction mate i know it's an ali boat and cabin.
What i meant by glass was your window's and lock up cabin.
These liitle babies are very thick and very heavy!

Please keep us up to date when you can to the outcome as their is a few that hope you will wake up soon and all will be sweet!
Payney!

[indy]

bump bump bump

[Mr__Bean]

S.H.

Did the props help?

- Darren

[Smithy]

Insideout, did you used to own Adrenaline the flybridge with outboards that was in all the KC ads for a while there? It was at Hervey Bay for a while. It is now on the Sunny Coast across from Lawries Marina, I am presuming with new owners.

[SnapHead101]

Unfortunately the props did not help. I took off the permatrims as per solas instructions as they say they will make things worse. I've talked to Sailfish who won't come up yet to fix the problem. They say they can't work out why it doesn't work and seem to find it difficult to understand what I mean when I describe the handling of the boat (they didn't sea trial the boat so don't know how it handles!) . I've agreed to give the permatrims another shot, and I'm hoping they will come up and sort out the boat if it doesn't work.

[dogsbody]

Any update on this.

Dave.

[SNAPPERCOFFIN]

Not surprising the props didn't work. Do your self a favour b4 forking out any more money. Get as many buckets/jerry cans together that will hold in total about 300-400 litres go out in the boat put them all down the back and fill them up. Good luck.

[SnapHead101]

I'm still waiting to get the time to get out in the boat. If it doesn't work and sailfish still won't come up and fix this brand new boat then I will be

a.) getting a lawyer
b.) writing in detail on all boat chat groups about my experiences including all the other faults with the boat
c.) hiring a stand at the upcoming Airlie Beach Boat show where Sailfish will be exhibiting and displaying my boat with a large billboard listing the faults with my boat and why you should not buy Sailfish

Basically having talked with the local suzuki dealer who is also a kevlacat dealer and heard about kevlacats aftermarket service I've had a gutfull.

[snelly1971]

a boat with ENOUGH power should be able to deal with the difference in weight from a smaller cab to the one on this boat, it takes extreme amount of unbalance to not be able to compensate with motor trim, been in enough Commercial cats carrying literally tons of moveable load and given correct power most can be dealt with.

Must agree with Noelm...ive been in enough cats carrying over 2 ton of abs and they seem to cope...so i cant see how a big cab could have that much affect..

[SNAPPERCOFFIN]

Must agree with Noelm...ive been in enough cats carrying over 2 ton of abs and they seem to cope...so i cant see how a big cab could have that much affect..

There would be alot of weight there. would be intesting to see how the boat sits still in the water. Where is all the fuel and water tanks and how full are they?

[OPTI]

i think you definately have a weight issue.either the whole rig is to heavy and a dog or just to much weight foward.
the four blade props of any brand wont work for you as they give stern lift,you need bow lift propellors like a quicksilver mirage or a omc raker they are my favorate 2.
have you got a electric anchor winch.if so remove all the chain and anchor on your next run,get rid of everything you can from the bow and see if it helps.
run the boat as light as you possibly can,if you get slight improvement at least you know which way to go,if nothing improves its just to overweight for the design.
any cat can be made a dog with too much weight,it sounds like that might be your problem.if its too heavy you cant fix it,you have a party pontoon.:-[

[reelerp]

been there done that hey opti

[snelly1971]

Still cant see it being a weight issue...Take into account all the gear that the commercial divers carry..eg...compressors...dive gear...500-600l of fuel...and nearly always 3-4 crew...chuck in 2-2.5 ton of abs....thats around the 3 ton mark ???and still be able to travel home around the 30 knot mark...and do it safely....

I have been and worked on enough ab boats ...on some horrible days and personally think that there is a design flaw...not just the big cabin.....in question here..

[finding_time]

Still cant see it being a weight issue...Take into account all the gear that the commercial divers carry..eg...compressors...dive gear...500-600l of fuel...and nearly always 3-4 crew...chuck in 2-2.5 ton of abs....thats around the 3 ton mark ???and still be able to travel home around the 30 knot mark...and do it safely....

I have been and worked on enough ab boats ...on some horrible days and personally think that there is a design flaw...not just the big cabin.....in question here..


hey snelly

what sort of cat is it that can do 30 knots with 3-4 ton of gear onboard( abs included)? I've been on many differant types of cat's diving over the years and non woud have been carring over 2.5 tonne all up and there performance was knocked around by that weight. i'm talking 8-10 meter boats.

Ian

[snelly1971]

The first one i worked in was an original 23 foot...shark cat...at the moment its in Trade a boat for sale...name is Abstractor.....the bosses new boat is a 27 foot Noosa cat...fitted with twin 225 Yammie 2 Strokes...the other 23 or 24 ?? same boat but with 250 suzuki 4s now upgrading to 300 suzukis 4s ...man that thing is going to hum...

Dont know if the divers over here are just mad or something but in the days of the 18 footers they used to have to run with the swell towards shore to just...and i mean just get on the plane...

[hungry6]

SH101 from past litigation experiences, do yourself a favour prior to getting a laywer involve, get a naval/marine engineer report on the boat in regards to the problem you have and the one you have yet to encounter. Send it of to Sailfish with an appropiate letter and give them 30days to solve the problem. If they fail to come to term after that just get a lawyer to submit documentations to the court without having spending thousands on fruitless corespondance.
Be firm with what you want and use a large conservative engineering firm, also include the cost of the report and your time in the claims if it come to that point.
wayne

[OPTI]

the weight issue is also the design issue.its got too much weight on board for the design.by un loading the front as much as possible it will at least tell us if it is fixable.the whole rig has too much weight foward,end of storey.and if you cant move enough weight back,its a major problem.they would have to move the fuel tanks back etc.
firstly id remove the anchor and chain and anything that was heavy in the cabin.empty the fuel tanks to only 50 litres in each and go for a run.if it still runs bow down which i suspect it will ,you will never fix it.maybe ad some chines under the front would be the easiest thing to start with,but if its too heavy its too heavy.
all cats are super sensitive to weight forward or stern.they all prefer to be stern heavy,i bet you put your 2 ton of abs in the stern.
looking at this rig as a whole,the fact they put 4 axles on the trailer tells me its too bow heavy.ive towed 32 ft cats on tripple axle trailers that balanced perfectly.
has sailfish built another boat like this or is this the first one?

[Kerry]

....what sort of cat is it that can do 30 knots with 3-4 ton of gear onboard( abs included)?....

Certainly no 23 foot Sharkcat that's ever been built.

Spanner crab boats are much the same, pots (1m square), winch gear etc and 1000kg (30 baskets averaging 30-35kg) is a top of the line load, like lets face there simply isn't the physical room to stack more then 3 layers of 10 baskets each, let alone find somewhere to sit/stand!

Some of these claims one simply has to have a bit of a laugh about!

Regards, Kerry.

[Kerry]

Hey Snap, have to had this rig over the scales since this discussion started?

[SnapHead101]

The rig has been over the scales, it's BMT weight is just short of 4 ton. The trailer is 860 so the boat is approx 3.14 ton. Other boats of similar design had been made by sailfish for coastguard and for Mono (also on this website , do a google for mono fishing charters brunswick) . Mono swears by his. My feeling is I just can't get the bow up and I don't know why. Given that my toilet is in the stern section I actually have less weight up front than mono (except for my 12 kg anchor winch) . He also takes out 6 to 8 people on charters and fuel , ice, water, rods etc. So far I've not fitted out my cat so it's light with only 100 litres of fuel when testing.

My biggest dissapointment is Sailfishes refusal to come up and sort out the problem, especially given they didn't sea trial the boat in the first place. I wonder now why I paid 200 K for a new boat , esp given that I'm doing all the work sorting out the problems.

I would certainly be very hesitant to buy a new boat again given this experience.

[OPTI]

id like to know what monos boat weighs.at 3.14 ton its heavy,2.5 ton dry weight?
just remember live weight doesnt have the same effect as dead weight.8 people at 100 kg =800kg live weight,put 800kg of dead weight ,ie aluminium and it will have 4 times the effect over the live weight.
it can only be weight or balance,sailfish should know what each boat they build weighs.i think we need to know the difference between them,that will tell a interesting story.
how much chain is on the anchor?

[Kerry]

The rig has been over the scales, it's BMT weight is just short of 4 ton. The trailer is 860 so the boat is approx 3.14 ton.....

....My biggest dissapointment is Sailfishes refusal to come up and sort out the problem, especially given they didn't sea trial the boat in the first place.

Weight? Sounds about on par for the course. However I do still believe it has 1 axle too many but that's not part of this problem.

What is really erking with this whole deal is a boat builder who did not sea trial the boat before delivery, no boat builder in this type of situation worth their salt would deliver a boat without first sea trialing it. Simply amazing that they did not do this :o

[disorderly]

Yes Kerry it is amazing that they did not sea trial it.
Its even more amazing that although a customer (who has forked out 200 grand) has made complaints about a potential major problem,that they have not sent somebody to investigate.
Sounds like sailfish have a case of Ostrich syndrome.

I mean if you were the boatbuilder and a customer complained that your boat was a dud,wouldnt you want to know why?

I sure hope they pull their finger out and get you on the water.

cheers Scott

[Greg P]

Unbelievable - that is a poor attitude from Sailfish. Good luck mate in getting some sort of resolution with them.


Cheers

Greg

[OPTI]

i bet the 4th axle was added after the boat went on the trailer,easier to add another axle than make a new trailer.id love to know where the center of gravity is.
sailfish have a lot to answer on this set up.

[FNQCairns]

Ihave not read the string again and forget most but what is really wrong with it? Would 10/10 skippers experienced in craft of this length and design consider there was a problem and I mean a problem not caveat emptor and a boat that is on the lower rungs in handling.
Variance in mono hulls is all over the place, some are brilliant some are average and some below average but all are as designed.

IMO but with little experience in these designs it would be bloody hard to get a lot of trim with engines alone in a boat with such beam and length of plank to put it badly.

Perhaps hire a commercial skipper who uses similar craft daily to rate it??

cheers fnq

[OPTI]

any outboard designed boat regardless of it being a cat or mono,should respond to trim,and there is nothing more scarier or dangerous than a nose heavy cat coming back through a bar in a steep following sea,or any sea for that matter.and being a brand new state of the art cat its not acceptable that it runs this way.to suggest he accepts it after spending 200k is a joke.:-[

[FNQCairns]

Fair enough if it is duck diving under normal use and it CANNOT be driven around by experience then that is bad!

I notice the sponsoons (for what of a better word) have a lot of deadrise at the rear if the front has more or near the same then there is not much hydrolic lift underway to support that heavy looking front half.

To fix imo throw a couple of stern drives with big props into it,only big props will be able to muscle the front up, then fine tune with tabs.

Or conversly find the BIGGEST diameter props available, pitch way down till max revs reached, with these obs it probably will not get any better than that, maximum total blade surface area is where it's at.

O' yeah time to raise the engines if ventilation was not the problem, low engine legs are very effective at forcing the front of hulls down.

cheers fnq

[SnapHead101]

The boat has only about 10 metres of light chain and a sarca anchor. That and the winch would be less than 20-25 kg all up at a rough guess.

Why do having engines lower force the bow down. I would have thought the opposite, the lower the engine the greater the fulcrum effect they have on the stern, thus forcing it down ??

[finding_time]

The boat has only about 10 metres of light chain and a sarca anchor. That and the winch would be less than 20-25 kg all up at a rough guess.

Why do having engines lower force the bow down. I would have thought the opposite, the lower the engine the greater the fulcrum effect they have on the stern, thus forcing it down ??

i would think that there is greater drag on the leg, this is wanting to lift the stern there by forcing the bow down.

Ian

[OPTI]

well theres not enough weight in the anchor set up to be a problem,i was hoping you had at least 50 m of chain.
it would be good if mono has the dry weight of his rig.
the lower the engines the more trim control you have.having them to low wont lift the stern but will give you better positive trim response.we know this didnt help.
i dont think any prop will change the problem,a high rake 3 blade prop will be better than a 4 blade for bow lift,the centre of gravity must be too far foward,and or its too heavy for its sponson size.
i really feel for you snap,id be getting legal with sailfish,dont accept a dog when you paid 200 k for a cat.>:(

[FNQCairns]

Yeah what Ian said contrary to popular opinion the only truely limiting factor in going fast (decreasing drag) is the leg.
The drag produced is huge relatively speaking and can easily account for 10% poorer performance on some boats, props that produce bow lift do so with help from the fulcrum effect so you are correct in raising the engine takes just a little lift away at low speeds but leg drag as speed increases very soon negates it.
If you want the best of both worlds in bow lift fit a high rake prop and run it at the surface but your problems are a bunch bulkier (i assume from what I read) so raising the engines will increase bow lift because the leg is not draging the bow down via induced prop slip made worse by trim, also a bigger diameter of prop will muscle the boat more and give greater trim control.

1 inch in diameter equals around 400 rpm (depending on style) in whichever direction chosen. Diameter is what hooks the boat up and pitch is what shoots it, you want as much hookup as you can possibly find.

So IMO you want: maxumum diameter, maxumum RPM,s to within 50 of the manufacturers highest recommended and ignore speed just live with what you end up with.

Talk to their tech guys to see if there is another higher maxumum number that will not void warrenty with their OK for troublesome setups or performance reasons, other manufacturers have been known to do it.

A really bad way to help matters further to some degree when you have reached the end of the road is ballast aft and low (lead?). Have you lined up the full legal compliment (weight) of people down the back to see what changes in real time?

cheers fnq

[Grand_Marlin]

all my 25 years experience in boats has been bar one day spent in mono hulls. The one day I spent in a 23 ft shark cat I was blown away by it's ride.


G'day Snaphead,

Cats are obviously very different to monohulls... have you had anyone show you how to best drive a cat .... running angles, speeds etc?

If all the other 8.5m Sailfish cats built have been proven to be ok, it seems strange that yours is suddenly "different" in performance.

I wonder if a little tuition to yourself might be of benefit?

Granted, you have 25 years experience in boats, bu tthat 25 years means very little when it comes to driving a cat properly.

For instance, running any cat at say 15 knots into 0.5m head sea will cause it to slam in the tunnel.
Take it up to 25 knots and at a slight angle to the sea and it will ride brilliantly.

Most cats seem to have a sweet running spot between say 4200 and 5000 revs, which normally equates to 25 - 35 knots.
Generally in a cat the quicker the better, but running angles are very important.

It isn't rocket science, but it sure is important to know how to get the best out of a cat.

There have been a number of relevant comments on this entire thread, all which may be correct, but I would be trying to eliminate all possible "minor" factors before I re-tooled the boat.

Cheers

Pete

[gofishin]

....
O' yeah time to raise the engines if ventilation was not the problem, low engine legs are very effective at forcing the front of hulls down.

cheers fnq

FNQ, i would disagree with this comment. The resultant drag from more leg in the water acts above, and in the opposite direction to, the line of thrust from the propeller.

Also, the lower the prop is in the water, the further it is away from the line of friction/drag of the hull (being pushed through the water) and hence the greater the nose lifting (twisting) affect on the hull.
Rgds.

[finding_time]

Go fishin

i think he explains that pretty well here.;)

Ian









Yeah what Ian said contrary to popular opinion the only truely limiting factor in going fast (decreasing drag) is the leg.
The drag produced is huge relatively speaking and can easily account for 10% poorer performance on some boats, props that produce bow lift do so with help from the fulcrum effect so you are correct in raising the engine takes just a little lift away at low speeds but leg drag as speed increases very soon negates it.
If you want the best of both worlds in bow lift fit a high rake prop and run it at the surface but your problems are a bunch bulkier (i assume from what I read) so raising the engines will increase bow lift because the leg is not draging the bow down via induced prop slip made worse by trim, also a bigger diameter of prop will muscle the boat more and give greater trim control.

1 inch in diameter equals around 400 rpm (depending on style) in whichever direction chosen. Diameter is what hooks the boat up and pitch is what shoots it, you want as much hookup as you can possibly find.

So IMO you want: maxumum diameter, maxumum RPM,s to within 50 of the manufacturers highest recommended and ignore speed just live with what you end up with.

Talk to their tech guys to see if there is another higher maxumum number that will not void warrenty with their OK for troublesome setups or performance reasons, other manufacturers have been known to do it.

A really bad way to help matters further to some degree when you have reached the end of the road is ballast aft and low (lead?). Have you lined up the full legal compliment (weight) of people down the back to see what changes in real time?

cheers fnq

[Greg P]

Pete

Could be something to look at as you mentioned.

Gee whiz - pay $200K I would have thought it would be no issue for Sailfish to send someone up with the new boat to do a shakedown cruise and impart some walking skills to a new Cat skipper.

As always there are two/3 sides to every story but it definitely looks very shoddy customer service from Sailfish by what I read in here if they are doing nothing behind the scenes to assist.


Cheers

Greg



G'day Snaphead,

Cats are obviously very different to monohulls... have you had anyone show you how to best drive a cat .... running angles, speeds etc?

If all the other 8.5m Sailfish cats built have been proven to be ok, it seems strange that yours is suddenly "different" in performance.

I wonder if a little tuition to yourself might be of benefit?

Granted, you have 25 years experience in boats, bu tthat 25 years means very little when it comes to driving a cat properly.

For instance, running any cat at say 15 knots into 0.5m head sea will cause it to slam in the tunnel.
Take it up to 25 knots and at a slight angle to the sea and it will ride brilliantly.

Most cats seem to have a sweet running spot between say 4200 and 5000 revs, which normally equates to 25 - 35 knots.
Generally in a cat the quicker the better, but running angles are very important.

It isn't rocket science, but it sure is important to know how to get the best out of a cat.

There have been a number of relevant comments on this entire thread, all which may be correct, but I would be trying to eliminate all possible "minor" factors before I re-tooled the boat.

Cheers

Pete

[SnapHead101]

So far Sailfish has paid for the local dealer to drop the engines two holes, fit permatrims and have the props cupped. Of course I had to take a day off work to transport the boat to and from the boatyard and also time off to organize shipping of the props.

The 0.5 metre sea I was in was a chop and I varied speed between 10 and 32 knots with differing amounts of trim. Granted I am new to cats but I do have some knowledge re speed and running angles when it comes to driving boats in seas . The boat banged so hard one of the roof aerials came down and a hatch on a bait box in the stern flew open (and yes it had been latched).

[SnapHead101]

May I also point out to the skeptics that Sailfish is a custom designer. They had not previously placed a toilet box in the stern before , so mine was the first according to them... AND it was not sea trialled. Now I'm no cat driver but I would have thought sea trialling any boat , especially one that's custom built would be a must. When the boat arrived here in Mackay the port side engine gauges were not working, neither was the toilet emptying pump. Apparently both worked prior to them sending the boat up.

[vertico]

if you sink it mate send me the mark for it, make sure you throw the anchor over 1st as well ;)
haha best of luck mate sorry to hear about your woes, hope sailfish get off their ass and do something to help

[Grand_Marlin]

Snaphead,

I dont know if you read my previous comment or not, but do you think it could be the way it is being driven?

No disrespect to you, but cats arent monos and they MUST be driven differently to get them to work properly ... if you try to drive them like a mono you will definitely get the worst out of them.

Any comments?

Cheers

Pete

[SnapHead101]

Grand Marlin,

I hear what you say, however the conditions were a .5 metre chop with no wave direction. Thus the only variables were speed and trim of the engines. It was not blowing on the day. As there was no wave face direction of vessel was not changeable. As I changed both speed and trim over about 20 minutes with multiple settings, I don't see what else I could have done.
Also if cats were that difficult to drive I couldn't see there being such a large following.

[Grand_Marlin]

Fair enough Snaphead, given time at the wheel you will eventually see what I mean.
I never said they were difficult, but they do have their quirks - ask any cat owner - hence why I made the suggestion

Cheers

Pete

[snelly1971]

Snap...What Pete is saying is right...cats do take a bit of getting used to....and they definately are different than driving any mono....It took me 4-5 months to be fully confident and even now ...15 years later i am still picking up little points...:D:D

Kerry LOL as much as you like....just goes to show how much you know about the commercial side of cats....I will gather some video footage and the unloading docket to post on Ausfish somewhere for everyone to see...then we can all LOL:o:o

[Kerry]

....Kerry LOL as much as you like....just goes to show how much you know about the commercial side of cats....I will gather some video footage and the unloading docket to post on Ausfish somewhere for everyone to see...then we can all LOL:o:o

Yeah mate you do that!

[finga]

Why not treat Mono for a trip north and see what he reckons about the package.
If something is wrong he'll know as he'll be able to compare to his. :)

[BM]

I didn't read through all the pages (only bout half of em) so forgive me if its been mentioned already, but I'm kind of wondering have they stuffed it up when they built it and there is too much weight forward? or the balance point of the hull too far forward??

If I spent that sort of dollars on a boat I would deliver it back to the dealer and demand a refund. Their product would appear to fall short of sections of the Trade Practices Act.

Sh!t, when I think how often I have bent over backwards to get little things on an old secondhand boat right for a customer it stuns me that a "custom" manufacturer wouldn't want their chest pumping, custom made, you beaut, whiz bang, we're the best cat builer, product to actually do its job.....

As an afterthought, do you have any side on pics of the boat sitting at rest in the water? This would give some idea of overall balance.

Cheers

[Grand_Marlin]

Any updates??

[hungry6]

nope, you go a get that riviera and like I said i wants the co-ordinates

[SnapHead101]

I took the boat out again today with the permatrimson, .5 metre chop and waves, the hull banged and jarred from 20 knots up to 35 knots with varying degrees of trim. I filled up eskys and bait boxes in the stern with water, about 150 kg in total , no real difference.

I rang Sailfish who will now transport the boat back to Lismore and fix the problem ! This is good customer service. Obviously it will take a while, however I will update the group to let you know what was done and how it worked.
Many thanks to all for you support over the past month.

[finding_time]

That's great to hear!!! good luck

ian

[INTIMIDATOR]

Good to hear!
I would strongly recommend a boat test yourself before they decide all is well, and make sure it a real good test , in at least 25 knot's , put it in some tight turns that usually get's em unsettled.
I'm dam sure they won't take it back a second time so please be sure your 110% happy .
And it's probably wouldn't hurt for a no B.S. explanation for the unbalance.
You just can’t add a mtr or more length on a hull that work's well , and expect the same result.
Cheer's Payney!

[saurian]

Snaphead hope it goes well down at Lismore, Are you going down for the sea trials ???? Get the builders in the boat with you.
I'm in sarina and I've got an alloy cat about 2m under yours and after reading
all of these posts by some really jealous blokes , I can only think of 2 reasons for
your dilemma , one is front heavy , the other is the point that marlin makes,
driving style. Or a combination of the two.
Let me know how you go .
Ta

[indy]

Any news yet mate?

[SnapHead101]

The boat left for Lismore this Tues, the builder sailfish will take it for a ride before working out what to do. They think it might be that the fuel tanks are too far forward. I'll be heading down next week as well to get some other things on the boat fixed and to talk face to face. I'll also be going out with Mono on his Sailfish on Friday as part of a charter to see how his ride. From listening to how he describes his boat, ours are worlds apart.
I'll keep everyone updated.

[gleeeza]

Saw your rig go in the water at fishery creek the other day.Dead low tide and the sea was as flat as a strap, not a big low but I heard them debating as to whether or not to risk it. Got her off ok but before my fish were clean they were back and on their way again. I have seen more confident looks on dogs waiting to get nutted. They must have figured it out pretty smartly and I dont think they liked what transpired.

Hope you had a good day with Mono, perfect weather for it. He puts on a good show, I took my French Inlaws out with him at Xmas and we had a blinder. Hopefully it will be a good distraction for the purpose of the trip. Good luck with it!!

Cheers Gleeeza

[SnapHead101]

Hi Gleeeza.
Thanks very much for you info. I was due to go out with Mono on Friday the 11th however he called it off as there was a 6 ft swell across the bar at Brunswick Heads and too rough to go out. Two trips now where I've not managed to get out with Mono due to rough conditions !
Re the test you saw of my boat. Sorry for clarifying this , but are you saying they worked out pretty quickly what was wrong with the boat or were they scared of rough weather ?? The reason I ask is when I visited the factory in Lismore the boss was overseas on a Mercury Incentive Trip and his 2IC said "the boat could handle better", so I'm not really sure if Sailfish believes there is an issue with my boat.
Their plan now is too move the fuel tanks to the stern of the boat. However unless the tanks themselves are very heavy I'd be surpised if this makes a large difference given the boat handles badly with only about 30 litres per side of fuel and just myself on board.
I'll pm my home number if you'd prefer to discuss this on the phone.
Many thanks
Henrik

[Deiter]

G'day Sh101, mate i see that Sailfish are now using your boat on their promos and adds!! Check out page 140 of the latest 'TrailerBoat' mag (issue217). Hard to miss that 4 axle trailer.

Interesting that they see fit to use a boat they did not get right to promote their business.

Good luck with it, hope you get a satisfactory outcome.

Damo

[BM]

I see a refund coming up in the near future Snaphead.

You will have to fight hard for it but you shoudl achieve it if you want to. You will need the testimony of some experienced cat drivers. Particularly Mono, being a commercial operator and also ownign the same boat his testimony could well sink Sailfish's case as he alone (although yo need more than one opinion) can verify that its too front heavy and does not perform as intended.

This would defdinitely fall into the category of "unfit for the purpose intended" and possibly also to a lesser extent "does not match the sample provided".

By all means let the manufacturer do all they can to rectify it as this shows you are patient and reasonable.

Give the ACCC a call and discuss it with them. Their phone peopel are excellent. Also ring the Consumer Affairs people in your state. I have always found the ACCC better to deal with and more accurate in their legal information. I have found a number of times where the Consumer Affairs entity (here in Vic anyway) have been dead wrong with certain legislative info. And the answer you get one day is often different the next day from another person.. Not go....

But not so with the ACCC people.

How long has this been going on now Snaphead? By the way, did they request your permission to use your boat as a promo for their company?

Cheers

[SnapHead101]

HI BM,

No Sailfish did not ask my permission nor notify me, the first I knew about it was from dieters post. I'm not sure if they have too, of course it would be polite and expected of a reputable builder.
The problems (more than just the handling issues) have been going on since Jan this year when I took delivery of the boat.
I'm not looking for a refund yet...... what I want is the boat I shelled out all that money for. The boat is with Sailfish currently and if all the issues including the handling are fixed then I will be satisfied.

[hungry6]

Before the sh*t hit the fan, I would save the notes and coments on these pages and keep them safe if there was a need to resort to them. As for Sailfish, I think, they would be thinking Refund+lost of income and associated cost. I'm not promoting a free swipe for easy money, far from it actually. But if you have suffered hardship+lost of income, then the party responsible should be liable for damages cost, it all fair game.
Had you taken delivery of the boat and not forward the final outstanding amount, I don't think they would wait 6 months to haul your a*se before a court and most probably go for balance due plus interest accrued and legal and administration cost.
The amazing thing over this whole scenario is that the lack of or unwilling to resolve the matter ASAP until it was haul before a public forum to be commented by general fishing community who are also boat owners.

[BM]

Yep, fair enough. Hopefully they can resolve the issues to your satisfaction. Although if they do manage to get it right there will still be some residual dislike/dissatisfaction lingering.

Keep us posted. :)

[Deiter]

Re using your boat in their adds, seems funny that they had time to shoot photos of it but couldn't spare the time for a water test.

Damo

[gleeeza]

Hi SH101

Just saw your reply. Sorry I have been at it and haven't been able to get back to you.

Low as in tide!!! not as in barometer., and I have no idea if they worked out what was going on with your boat or not I was just saying that when they returned to the ramp they didn't seem to be in the best spirits or seem very optimistic.Whatever went down it didn't take very long from what I saw.

Moving the fuel tanks sounds ominous:-/

I don't envy your situation, good luck.

Gleeeza

[Rod Fishing]

Whats the latest wth your sailfish how did the water test go?

[gawby]

Do you have an update for us mate.
Graeme

[SnapHead101]

I spoke with Sailfish yesterday (tues). Even though on the test day it was not rough they were of the opinion the boat was riding nose heavy. They have now pulled up the floor on the boat and are moving the fuel tanks to the back of the boat. I did point out that the tanks are quite light and asked if the boat will still handle poorely when light on fuel. The answer was that by moving the tanks six feet backwards it should help. I will wait and see, I'm a little concerned there will still be a problem when the boat is light. When I have an answer I'll let people know.
I discussed the quad axle issue. Basically they can do a duel axle trailer but it will need 16 inch rims and thus much deeper water to launch the boat.

I didn't bring up the issue of using the boat in pics promoting their company. I'm basically after a boat that performs as it should, other issues are secondary.

[gawby]

Best off luck, hope this fixes your problem.
Graeme

[BM]

And fair enough SH. The "unauthorised" advertising use card may be played at a later time if need be. But your on the right track in the meantime.

As I mentioned earlier, let them do all they can (unopposed) to rectify the situation as it shows you are "patient" and "understanding" and builds your case against them.

I wish you well, but my gut instinct on this is they are not going to get the boat right. Acceptable..... maybe, but RIGHT.......... I doubt it.

Cheers and chin up :)

[Deiter]

Gotta say, i don't think there will be any 'secret' cards to play - i would be very suprised if Sailfish weren't already aware of and tracking this discussion.

Also agree with BM re a solution. me thinks this will never perform to expectations, which understandably should be very high.
Again, good luck SH.

Damo

[SnapHead101]

The boat is almost finished. It should be sea trialled this Mon/Tues and hopefully Mono have time to be on it to test it. The boat will be up at Airlie Beach Boat Show this coming weekend (9,10 June) and Sailfish will be using it as a demo boat, so it should be up to scratch. Anyone wishing to see the boat in the flesh will be able to do so at Airlie Beach!! Anyone wishing to buy one should be able to get a ride !!

[OPTI]

dont want to dampen your optimism snaphead,but i would wait for the sea trial:'( .ill bet my ----- that the shifting the fuel tanks wont change anything.keep us updated,regards opti

[Kerry]

If fuel tanks have to be now "shifted" 6 (six) feet it does make wonder about the design principles that originally went into this boat?

[Deiter]

Yep, agree Kerry. Surely they have naval achitects with the right computer modelling software. A quick calculation and comparison between centre of gravity and centre of bouyancy should have rung alarm bells before the first sheet was cut.

[krazyfisher]

I will have to have a look at it this weekend!

[mono]

Hi Snaphead, I just returned from Ballina where I spent the afternoon test driving your vessel.
Before I go on I must point out to all that I went down to have a drive only because Snaphead asked me to and I thought I could give him an independant opinion. I have no other ties with Sailfish except I have owned-operated commercially a couple of them and they have always done the right thing by me- but Darren knows if i think something was wrong I would say so. Being up front has got me in trouble before but this is just the way I am, if its a good product I will recomend it.

Today the timing was great as I had just been blown home from a charter because of strong southerly winds making it too uncomfortable and hard to fish. Darren phoned and we met at the Ballina boatramp.
This is the first time I have seen the vessel in person and I must say it is definatly a 'vessel' not a 'boat'!
My first impression was visually she is very impressive and certainly makes a statement travelling down the road!
Once on the water, with the wind still stong even in the river, we made our way toward the bar, which wasnt breaking.
At first she was slowly opened up to about 3000 revs and jumped straight onto the plane. The side-spray was coming off the hull about midships, which is were mine does also. As we made our way over the half to one metre swell with an average chop, we opened her up to about 5000revs and she revelled in it. The trim was pulled up to just above level and the nose lifted even more.
The side-spray was coming off the back third of the hull which was great. The 175 suzukis really had her humming and I'm not sure what speed we were doing but it had to be around 35kts or more.
I didnt get the oportunity to drive it before the modifications but today I think it performed as good as any cat I have been in.
With a little more horsepower it is certainly faster than mine and puts out less spray at top speed.
I dont want to upset any of the critics on this site but I know they only moved the fuel tanks and lowered the midship toilet from floor level down into the hull but to me she performed great.
Just remember that cats perform much better when pushed and the trim is crutial to the boats performance.
There was hardly any fuel in the tanks (easier for Darren to tow it up to Airly Beach tomorrow) but two average sized blokes were on the back deck with Darren and I in the cabin.
At the end of the day, it is a big trailorable vessel with a big live-aboard cabin, probably capable of sleeping at least seven people. In my opinion she performed great and if I owned it I would be very happy with its performance. I'm not an naval architect or anything but to me I couldnt fault the vessel, except for the fact you've got the wrong brand of motors on the back!!
Anyway for what its worth thats my opinion and I hope you get as many years pleasure out of it as I have with mine.
Cheers
Capt Mark 'Mono' Stewart
PS. I asked Darren if he was aware of this post on ausfish which he was but hasnt seen any of it.
PSS. I meant to take my camera but in the rush forgot it, sorry.

[dogsbody]

Thats great news for Snaphead. I have followed this thread and with all the commentary in between it's been a bit of concern but great to read the end result.
Happy days.


Dave.

[Blackened]

G'day

Fantastic report there mono,

Looks like its the thumbs up to sailfish, good on them

Dave

[finding_time]

Great way to put this thread to bed!! ;) Good report Mono, i'm sure SH benifited from riding while you took the boat through it's paces as well, picking up heaps of tips on the way. great stuff.:D :D

Ian

[SnapHead101]

Mono, thank you very much for testing the boat, I'm indebted to you and now have a very large smile on my face. I'll pm you some contact details for me. I look forward to testing the boat at Airlie. Kevlacat contacted me yesterday saying they had heard I no longer had a boat and would I like to take a Kevlacat 3000 for a ride in Airlie.

[northernblue]

Mono, thank you very much for testing the boat, I'm indebted to you and now have a very large smile on my face. I'll pm you some contact details for me. I look forward to testing the boat at Airlie. Kevlacat contacted me yesterday saying they had heard I no longer had a boat and would I like to take a Kevlacat 3000 for a ride in Airlie.

Tell them that I'll take the kevlarcat off their hands for them ;)

Congratulations to sailfish for doing the required fix, better to design it right in the first place, but good work to correct the customers concerns.
Enjoy snaphead!

[hungry6]

Well happy boating and a very good final outcome, only if all the other boating issues have this sort of end.
cheers
wayne

[FNQCairns]

Great news and from an independent source with cat experience, gotta be happy with that!
I don't have bugger all cat experience, as a matter of fact the last time I drove one I made everybody very wet and that was 15 years ago so please place my thoughts in the apropriate box:)

I would get the hull x rayed for 300kg of substance/material placed in the back of each hull !

Jeez I am jaded....

cheers fnq

[Lovey80]

Hi SH, just read the thread from start to finish. Glad to hear you got it all sorted out. Jeez over 5 months past due on receiving a boat thats finally working would have worn real thin on me. There's not an ice cubes chance in hell that they would be using it in Ad's or at a boat show without some considerable compensation. Anyway mate i hope the SHIP is all that you wanted and more because god knows youve paid for it in cold hard cash and unneeded stress.


Cheers Chris

[krazyfisher]

had a look at this boat today and wow thats a boat very very nice

[BM]

I'm glad to be shown I was wrong Snaphead :) :) Great stuff!!

[indy]

Glad you got the right result in the end thanks for keeping us updated must be a big load of your mind NOW ENJOY

Cheers pete...

[gawby]

S.H. I hope you get the enjoyment out of your vessel that you were expecting. I really like the looks of it, great.
Even though there seemed to be a bit of a communication breakdown in the beginning Sail Fish to their credit have come to the party to fix the problem.
Graeme

[Deiter]

Good result SH. now you can sleep at night.

p.s. still interested to hear what you think after YOU have taken it for a drive.

Damo

[SnapHead101]

Thanks all for your support for what has been a trying time. Sailfish will be dropping the boat at my place Monday and hopefully I'll get it in the water soon. Unfortunately I'm on call Monday and the weather is great ...... God is obviously a women and doesn't enjoy fishing !!!

[seatime]

if an experienced operator who knows his cats (sailfish) like mono is impressed by the vessel, then I'd be happy.;D
hope you have many years of safe boating and productive fishing ;)

p.s. expected it be sorted out, haven't seen any dud sailfish's yet.




sounds like the way to go with cupping the props, maybe look again at the weight distribution, e.g. where's the FW tank. can some weight be moved aft.
possibly try a few 40kg sand bags around the boat when testing props.

wish it was me with the dilemma. I'm confident you'll get it fixed.

cheers

[Kerry]

Should never have occured in the first place!

[krazyfisher]

I agree Kerry. but atleast it seems to be sorted.
so is that good on sailfish or......

[Kerry]

Yes it would seem to have been sorted?

I suppose what might have come out of it is that Sailfish might now put a bit more effort into getting things right before a boat even leaves the factory. Apart from the actual design "miscalulations" this appears to have been the number one no no. They had their opportunity to prove it before delivering but obviously couldn't have been bothered or else expected the buyer to accept it and not question it.

This is always a concern with customized boats but there simply isn't any excuse for it being delivered as it was.

Hopefully the lessons learnt here will never allow this to occur again?

Regards, Kerry.

[fishing111]

Totally agree Kerry, yes they rectified it,but it took a lot of time and incovenience/money for SH to get it resolved.I wonder if it was'nt posted on the net what outcome would have been?

[bluefin59]

This has been a very interesting thread glad the problem seems to be fixed eventually it will be interesting to see how it all goes with it fully fueled and loaded up with people and gear i hope it all goes well for you in the future keep us up to date hopefully with fishing reports from up there mate congratulations on a wicked looking boat ......8-) 8-) 8-)

[gleeeza]

Gotta love the internet!!!!

Word of mouth is the quickest way for a business to go down for less than acceptable practices. This thing right here probably helped to keep Sailfish on their toes and come to the party reluctantly. A major pain in the date SH but a result all the same,congrat's.

A shame that you couldn't get a before and after comparison from an old salt but I guess you will be the best judge, at the end of the day your the one who has to live with it. I'm sure you will manage though, I saw it in Ballina during the saga and was very impressed with her.

cheers Glenn

[fishing111]

SH have you been for a run in it yet, big difference yeah/neigh ?

[SnapHead101]

I've been out twice now. Still bangs in the choppy slop we get in Mackay. Coming back from the islands with a quarter sea slopp across the bow was limited to about 17 knots in a .5 to 1.0 metre sea. Exceptionally stable fishing platform though, had my 3 yo daughter walking around the cockpit whilst fishing next to an island chop around 1 metre that was very nasty.
Took the permatrims off but the ride got worse. Plan to do a bit more experimenting with weight distribution as I haven't yet filled the 200 litre water tank in the belly. Trying to go out with Mono in his sometime to see how it rides, both times I've been down it's been too rough to cross the bar. Interestingly the boat was exhibited at Airlie beach boat show and two people who went for a ride in it both ordered one each after having compared the kevlacat and powercats.
One thing that has suprised me is the fuel economy. Did 60 nautical miles this week, half at 24 knots, half around 17 knots and used around 85 - 90 litres in total. Not bad for a 8.7 metre cat with engines that are still running in (30 hours)..

[dfox]

Good to hear you and the family are getting out in it, but more importantly does it catch fish?;D ...foxy

[Fish Guts]

snaphead,

what are your thoughts on the permatrims ?

Happy it worked out for you after all the rigmaroll.

cheers

fish guts

[SnapHead101]

I think the permatrims drop the fuel economy due to extra drag although possibly help the performance as far as making the ride smoother. Holeshot is unaffected as the boat accelerates like a skiboat. Probably too early to be convinced but will report back after more runs.

[Smithy]

Is it fully carpet lined inside? That may take out some of the bang as in noise. It has certainly helped the two alloy plate boats I have had compared to mates boats who aren't lined.

[SnapHead101]

It's fully carpeted and has matresses on the floor up the front. It's more a case of the jerk/thump that I and more importantly my 3 yo feels that's upsetting.... and thus limits fishing opportunities. It's quite possible that cats are no good for the chop we get up here, and a mono would have been better.

[SnapHead101]

I had considered fitting a hydrofoil between the hulls such as used on hysucat or Cairns Custom Craft Cats, however having trouble locating them. Does anyone know who deals in them, or has anyone had any experience??

[Kerry]

I had considered fitting a hydrofoil between the hulls such as used on hysucat or Cairns Custom Craft Cats, however having trouble locating them. Does anyone know who deals in them, or has anyone had any experience??

You have enough problems to work through without getting into something like hull hydrofoils!

Solve the real problems first and in any case I still don't believe this boat has had proper design work applied from scratch.

Regards, Kerry.

[snelly1971]

It's fully carpeted and has matresses on the floor up the front. It's more a case of the jerk/thump that I and more importantly my 3 yo feels that's upsetting.... and thus limits fishing opportunities. It's quite possible that cats are no good for the chop we get up here, and a mono would have been better.

You Joking arnt you ...a Mono better than a cat.....what was you going to buy..the QE2....???

Cheers Mick

[Wahoo]

You Joking arnt you ...a Mono better than a cat.....what was you going to buy..the QE2....???

Cheers Mick

:LOL Mick, even the QE2 has one hull ;D
if the cat hull is better than a mono.............. well QE2 wont be called QE2 will it ;D;D;D;D;D;D

Daz
























all jokes aside, we should all be happy with what we have and be happy with



Daz

[snelly1971]

Well Daz I love Mono`s.....But there is no way i would ever put a Mono up against a cat...Sure there are some great Mono`s about but ????....I shouldnt even have to say anything....

Cheers Mick

[snelly1971]

And the answer to your last comment...yes we should be happy with what we have...that is why i have sold my mono and will prob end up with a cat or a tri hull

Mick

[Wahoo]

Mick, i can not argue with you on this, i never had a cat and never been in one, just haveing a dig mate

Daz

[snelly1971]

LOL....Yeah I know....Go for a ride in one...you will see what i mean.!!


Mick

[FNQCairns]

he he... I was heading out to the reef a couple of weeks ago, leaving port a 20foot glass cat was catching me so I upped my cruise rpm a few notches, that stuffed him:) - for the next 20min, then the waves came:(

cheers fnq

[Kerry]

:LOL Mick, even the QE2 has one hull ;D
if the cat hull is better than a mono.............. well QE2 wont be called QE2 will it ;D;D;D;D;D;D



One hull ;D yeah so did the Queen Mary, the Normandie, the USS United States but it took a Cat 8-) and an Australian built and designed cat at that to knock their Atlantic crossing records to pieces, it was called the Blue Riband but now it belongs to a Cat :D

[snelly1971]

Thanks Kerry....Another Ausfisher who loves Pussies...

Cheers Mick

[Mr__Bean]

Snaphead,

It has been a while now, just wondering how you ended up with the cat.

Has it all been sorted to your satisfaction?

Did you get to compare yours with others as you planned?

- Darren