Shamatures.

[roz]

Have you ever come across a person who sell's their catch, of course I mean an amature.

Would you be prepared to report that person or persons to the authorities? and back it up by going to court as a witness if necessary?

I personally detest these people, they will try and catch more fish, to of course make more money.

What are your thoughts & what would you do about it?

Even if that person was the nice old chappie who lives next door, just selling a few bream.

Roz.

[Scalem]

Hi Roz,

That's a good question, but I want to make a destinction here. If my mate next door has ever owned a boat, he is likely to feel a little sorry for me and the expense he understands comes with the territory of owning a boat. As a gesture of respect, he might offer a token sum of money for the pleasure of having fresh fish. I would not say no in this circumstance. But an unlicensed (not a professional liscense) amateur who deliberately catches more fish than he and a few friends could consume , knowing that he has a few people who willingly pay him money, and hopes to make a profit - I think that is wrong. The pros spend enough on their livelyhood without the erosion of their industry by privateers.

Scalem

[Oh Gee]

sometimes i wish i could catch enough to have an excess to sell...i give any excess away( family/friends/neighbours), in that order.

[seatime]

Might have to bring in the removal of pectoral fins off diver whiting to stop the amateurs in Moreton Bay and Hervey Bay.

why not increase fines on retailers that offer to buy amateur caught seafood?

[straddie]

Heya Roz

I have personally known a few that targeted fish, prawns and crabs and know of others that have done it although none recently. It is far too common and often it's a lot more than just a couple of kg of fish here abd there it's almost a professional scale operation.

Watching channel10 news last night there was a guy in a fish shop on showing a salmon caught in the brissy river and he mentioned it was 1 of 2 caught that week. Now I couldn't be certain but I don't think he would have sourced it from a pro and I got the impression it was for sale, although I could be wrong.

Do you put them in? I haven't had to, as a chat was enough but having met you once there is a bit of a size difference between you and I. So you really have to decide whether the "crime" warrants you going to court.

[Deiter]

Most guys who do this have close mates who are pro's, so have a think, do you know anyone here on this board is a pro and who do they fish with?? Bloody shits is me is what it does. particularly when they get their name in print every second week for being a great fisherman.

I know a few pros myself and have been told that if i need to offload a few fish, they will take em for a few $, but have never done it. Others who are less shameless have. It's more common than you think.

[wayneoro]

what are the chances of going fishing and catching anough to cover your petrol money if you did sell your fish ? hellow

[straddie]

Heya Deiter

Of all the ones I have known of over the years not one went through a pro. It was all word of mouth to friends and neighbours, pubs, in the back door of fish and chip shops and one industrious fellow even had his own fish van mixing his own stuff in with legally purchased product.

Scalem in your scenario it's borderline, if the person catches extra fish to make sure he gets those dollars it's over the line in my opinion. If you just had an good day and caught more than you could use and someone slipped you a token amount for petrol money I can't see the problem.

I think the measure is, if you expect to be paid and won't give them fish any more if you don't get that gesture of respect then it is a sham.

[finga]

"Scalem in your scenario it's borderline, if the person catches extra fish to make sure he gets those dollars it's over the line in my opinion. If you just had an good day and caught more than you could use and someone slipped you a token amount for petrol money I can't see the problem."
Nope, I reckon any cash payment is out. $5 isn't going to make much difference to your pocket and any more then $5 the neighbour might as well go down the shop and buy some fish.
Now if you had to sit with your neighbour and have a stubby or 6 then that's another story.

"I think the measure is, if you expect to be paid and won't give them fish any more if you don't get that gesture of respect then it is a sham"
What quantities of fish are we talking about??
4 or 5 kilos or a few fillets??
If it's 4 or 5 kilos then you caught too much. A few fillets or a feed then why not just give it to them.
If you respect your neighbours or friends a couple of dollars shouldn't make any difference. Just give them the fish.
Why not ask them over for a feed of fresh fish if it's a respect/friendship thing ??

..........

[imnotoriginal]

Straddie,
if you read the report about it on the courier-mail's website I'm pretty sure the bloke with the salmon made the point that they were pros that specialised in wild-caught fish for consumption
Joel

[blaze]

ok, well I will fess up. Dont crucify me.
Back in a former life as a 17/18 year old young keen fisho I used to sell a few fish, not many but just enough to offset fuel cost for a boat I probable should never owned because of lack of funds. Now I could have sold tonnes of fish in them days but never did because I though in my own way that was wrong and just greed. Most of the fish were line caught but in them days I would set a net or 2, this was all legal back then (apart from the selling) and there were no limits to speak of and certainly no policing of the few laws there was.
In todays world I take a dim view of amatures selling fish (I know, you are going to say 2 faced). These days I often bring back 30 to 40 flatties for the boat and none are wasted and a lot of family/friends get a feed of fresh fish they other wise would not have got (please also remember we catch that many flatties in 1/2 hour). I will accept no payment of any sort for these fish that are given away (not even a stubbie), my payment these days is that I have done someone a good deed (should see the joy on a kids face who has sat on the river bank for 4 or 5 hrs catching and letting go 100mm salmon when you motor up in the the boat and give him a fish thats 5 or 6 lb, Thats enough for me).
So I have been there and done that, wont claim the rightious path but have learn ed with maturity of grey hair and the hope of a better future for our kids and fish stocks
Now shoot me
cheers
blaze

[JEWIENEWIE]

No need to shoot a man who has found the error in his ways.
Jewie

[roz]

ok, well I will fess up. Dont crucify me.
Back in a former life as a 17/18 year old young keen fisho I used to sell a few fish, not many but just enough to offset fuel cost for a boat I probable should never owned because of lack of funds. Now I could have sold tonnes of fish in them days but never did because I though in my own way that was wrong and just greed. Most of the fish were line caught but in them days I would set a net or 2, this was all legal back then (apart from the selling) and there were no limits to speak of and certainly no policing of the few laws there was.
In todays world I take a dim view of amatures selling fish (I know, you are going to say 2 faced). These days I often bring back 30 to 40 flatties for the boat and none are wasted and a lot of family/friends get a feed of fresh fish they other wise would not have got (please also remember we catch that many flatties in 1/2 hour). I will accept no payment of any sort for these fish that are given away (not even a stubbie), my payment these days is that I have done someone a good deed (should see the joy on a kids face who has sat on the river bank for 4 or 5 hrs catching and letting go 100mm salmon when you motor up in the the boat and give him a fish thats 5 or 6 lb, Thats enough for me).
So I have been there and done that, wont claim the rightious path but have learn ed with maturity of grey hair and the hope of a better future for our kids and fish stocks
Now shoot me
cheers
blaze

Blaze,

I've always considered you a god like creature!!!!!

At the very least you are honest.



I've been offered money at boat ramps for some of the fish I've caught, it's so tempting to knock back folding stuff, but I'm glad I have. I did one day give away a whole mackeral to a young bloke, he seemed so desperate, but I had caught more fish than I could eat in five months.

Still, can I take the high moral ground?.. I give fish and crabs to my neighbours up at Agnes, they keep an eye on my place, I know they would anyway, if I gave them fish or not, I've given fillets to the girls at the real estate, but still I feel I am repaying them in a way.

The most common reason I've heard is "it helps to pay for my fuel", that one doesn't wash with me, the money you save by putting that sea food on the table, adequately makes up for the cost of fuel.

After all, your vehicle uses fuel to get you to the supermarket?

I think the worst, is the person on the dole who does this sort of thing.

r.

[roz]

Do you put them in? I haven't had to, as a chat was enough but having met you once there is a bit of a size difference between you and I. So you really have to decide whether the "crime" warrants you going to court.

Hi there straddie,

My fighting weight might be around 53kg but I wouldn't think twice.

BTW are you going to the June M&G? if so, Cya there.

cheers r.

[blaze]

maturity changes ones view on a lot of things Roz, some things we cant/wont learn by other peoples mistakes and we need to make our own. I made plenty early on
cheers
blaze

[nigelr]

Let he/she who is without sin cast the first stone!
Is it a matter of degree, or are we talking a moral/ethical issue here?
If so, is the unemployed person who sells their catch any different to the person who gives excess fish away, for whatever reason?
When you have enough fish for your family, isn't it time to stop?
Just my 2 cents, don't want to get too heavy, God knows I've given the odd fish away myself and I don't consider myself as opportunistic as say, a local disability pensioner who offloads the odd mulloway or 10!
Guess we all have to live with our own consciounces!
Cheers!

[outsiderskip]

hi guys im a pro and i can only sell fish to a fish w/saler
i can also have a tender boat fishing within 800mts of my vessel
but he cant sell any fish
by the way a pro cannot sell fish directly to a fish shop
unless he has a w/sale licence to buy fish

pete

[roz]

i there Pete,

that is something I didn't know.

We have been bashing the pro's here lately, mainly for their behaviour toward amatures. But I don't see a lot of wealthy pro fishermen, the one's I know only just scrape in, with one exception.

A pro mackeral fisherman who worked out of 1770, I know him and his wife quite well. He was able to run rings around anybody, seemingly able to pull mackeral out of the water by the dozen, where the rest of us had only managed two or three. anyway, getting a bit off the topic here.

Nigeir,

You have made a good point.

I think kingtin made a quote which summed it up...something about pointing fingers.

I was actually referring to young males I know of, that are quite capable of working but choose to live this way, those types take fish they are not entitled to, while tax payers support them, and they still live at home with their parents.

I just thought I would start off this debate, it's something that I see a lot of. I suppose at the end of the day, on one can claim to be totally blame free.

It's the ones I've mentioned above, and the larger scale operators, who need to be caught IMO.

[PinHead]

Let he/she who is without sin cast the first stone!
Is it a matter of degree, or are we talking a moral/ethical issue here?
If so, is the unemployed person who sells their catch any different to the person who gives excess fish away, for whatever reason?
When you have enough fish for your family, isn't it time to stop?
Just my 2 cents, don't want to get too heavy, God knows I've given the odd fish away myself and I don't consider myself as opportunistic as say, a local disability pensioner who offloads the odd mulloway or 10!
Guess we all have to live with our own consciounces!
Cheers!

The way I see it Nigel is that if the so called unemployed bloke is selling his catch then he is no longer unemployed..he can apply for a licence...get the appropriate insurances..register his boat correctly...pay his GST on his sales etc etc...why should I pay someone unemployment benefits whilst he is out catching fish and selling them...that is social security fraud as far as I am concerned.

Giving the fish away is totally different in every way.

[nigelr]

Have to agree with you both on that point, Roz and Pinhead.
Kinda makes my blood boil thinking about it!
I've always believed an honest days' work is a terrifying thing to some people!
Cheers, and interesting post, Roz, bound to get some good responses!

[Horse]

I have a lot of time for commercial line fisho's. They mostly do minimal damage to other areas of the fishery and provide a much needed service to the non fishing community. I am sure that most of them are as upset as most of the rec fisho's with the antics of some of the shamatures who do not pay fees, taxes or follow the regulations.
I have noted a huge change in public perceptions concerning this sort of activity. In my younger years I fished often with a bloke who sold his catch through the markets on some sort of loophole in the regulations. Gladly this sort of thing has been closed down now.
Fisheries management has its hands full monitoring commercial and recreational catches without having to worry about amatuers stealing the resource for their own profit.

Cheers

Neil

[outsiderskip]

not as easy as you thing to get a licence these days
pete

[roz]

Pete, I've heard there are quotas that have to be met, if that doesn't happen, can the state authority take back the pro's licence?

another black mark against the shamatures I suppose.

[murf]

Good post Roz will the truth come out though?

I give a fair bit of fish away to family and friends (when I have a good day) and never ask, expect or take payment for fish.

I have given a couple of kingies to a bloke once at the pub (he came up and asked me if I had any to spare)and I refused any money offered but next thing I know he put a drink in front of me, so I have broken the law for drinking that drink :(

is it wrong to give a mate a feed of fish if he does a small favour for you? again breaking the law but at what moral level.

Yes I don't agree with the people that fish at every opertunity so they can sell fish, I suspect a couple around here do it :(

Cheers Murf

[aussiefool]

I'm on a full pension (carers)and I go fishing when ever I can. While I do not always catch a bucket load of fish I do alright. One person that lives near me knows of my fishing activity and has asked me more than once if I wanted to sell some fish (as he had people waiting for fish ). While I must admit that I have been very temped, very temped indeed, but I know that it would be both legaly and morally wrong. Hevens knows that I could do with some extra money,but I gould not live with myself if I did. As to would I dob him in,mmmmmm, I don't know spose I would if I knew he was doing on a large scale and not just the odd fish here and there than yes I would pick up the phone.

[wayneoro]

this is such a moral grey area i doubt the fisheries would be interested in jo blob giveing a friend a couple of fish in exchange for a few bucks to help with the fuel costs there line in the sand as i know it is when somebody goes fishing with the only purpose of selling his catch you can bet the fisheries have a million dobbers ringing in jo blob type of transactions because they wernt offered any yes we are humans lucky this is australia and we have such a thing as a fair go where victimless offences of this nature are over looked

[outsiderskip]

wayne
boating patrol are out there more often taking photos of boats going out reguraly
and especially if u brag about what you catch on the radio
i personally have only been pulled up oncethey were with me for 1hr while they investigated me for all my licences checked in well in back of boat, under bunks, in ice box to make sure all fish were legal and i had none hidden

roz
no quotas but if u try selling your licence and you dont have much fish caughtfor the year it not worth much any yes they can say you are not particapiting in the industry and can buy you out or possibly take it off you

pete

[PinHead]

hell...to get back fuel costs...I would need to catch one hell of a lot of fish.
I would rather give away than sell it....gives a warm and fuzzy feeling.

[outsiderskip]

30kg of fish just to break even
hoping not to loose any tackle or have any mishaps

[roz]

hell...to get back fuel costs...I would need to catch one hell of a lot of fish.
I would rather give away than sell it....gives a warm and fuzzy feeling.

HEY PINHEAD,

I KNOW WHERE YOU GET YOUR WARM AND FUZZY FEELING.

and it's called GREEN GINGER WINE

[PinHead]

HEY PINHEAD,

I KNOW WHERE YOU GET YOUR WARM AND FUZZY FEELING.

and it's called GREEN GINGER WINE


LOL...mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..nectar of the Gods

[Black_Rat]

Don't mind topping a beer with the "ginger" ;D

Don't really get to sell my catch. I will offer my neighbour a fish or two, they always offer $ for it and I knock it back. :)

Mind you they have recipricated the offer with a bottle of home brew ;D I feel they would be offended if I didn't take up the offer ;D

[Jackinthebox]

I am surprised at the majority of the general public who don't seem to be aware of the fact that it is illegal to sell fish as an amateur.

They are always surprised when I correct them after telling me that I could sell my fish. They are also the same people that still think the ocean is a never ending supply of free protein.

I don't care too much about the odd legal fish once in a while exchanging hands (for example - i park my boat in my neighbour's carpark as I have nowhere to keep it and since she is an old lady on a pension, I try to return the favour and give her a nice whiting or tailor every now & then. Heck I even fillet them on her kitchen bench and take away the scraps, she always raves about how good it tastes)

The guys that annoy me are the ones that go out with the intention of catching as much as possible and can't stop at a couple of 30lb cobia or a few 5 kilo macks, they've just gotta keep catching right past the bag limit (at least spotties are only 5 fish now) and then take out mates who don't eat fish just so they can add that bag limit to the take and then sell the whole lot!

Mick.

[webby]

You will never elliminate those that fish for profit reasons only, when Fisheries (Officers) are severally undermanned.
There are sections of our coast line, where profitieers both Rec's and Pro's can run rampant without detection.
But you dont have to look that far, when it is happening in our own back yard, and its possible that both you and I no someone who overfishes wether on Government support or not.
Paying a fellow fisho to help him offset his costs, has nothing or is not in the same catergory as Roz's so called Shamatures.
You will never elliminate the Rats in our Society until we supply more Cats.
All Pro's are given a quota, if they feel they cannot meet that quota, they can lease part of their quota to another Pro's with the same Licence.
As far as I am concerned there are many Licences where their quotas have not or never been reached for years, or some issued that lay dormanant and never used, this are the ones that should be reciended.
Why should the govt buy back any of these licences when the licencee has not even tried to reach or work for what he is supposely issued the licence for.
If fisheries imposed either larger sizes or smaller limits, (yes there are a lot of species that do need immediate attention.) i can bet there would be a lot of objections from a majority on this site (re fuel costs etc fishing these days), so that leaves us with a catch 22, where fisheries are either loved or hated for trying to prolong the life of most species.
Its human nature as we are the most profilic killers on this planet, and we have all at some stage or another gone out on killing sprees, and their wouldnt again be too many on this site that havent done this at some stage of their life.
So how do we stop the greedy or profiteers or illiminate our killer instincts, maybe a world wide brain wash is about your only solution.
regards

[Lucky_Phill]

Good topic Roz, and most here have touched on some part of the questions posed.

The two most important issues to me are the “ live at home dole bludgers “ and the “ would I dob in the mate/ neighbour ‘ ? ::)


I can only speak of my experience in that I do know fishermen who deliberately catch more than bag limits ( when the fish are on ) and have a ready cash market to offload said fish. I am not talking about a few kilos, as the last time I heard about the efforts of this person, a cash return of $800 was mentioned. This was for two people and they returned to the boat ramp just after dark, knowing the DPI&F have insufficient funds to do after hours patrols. Like Webby says, we need more Cats to catch the Rats. So, do I dob in this bloke ? For a start, I believe that the DPF&I are already aware of these happenings, and furthermore, they have to catch them in the act. I also know the person that the fish are sold to, and that person offloads the fish to a fresh fish outlet in Brisbane. I have seen first hand, a person taking a 60ltr esky full of Summer Whiting into an upmarket Brisbane restaurant and come out with a wad of $’s. I also know of a couple of people in a “ professional “ fishing industry sector, that continually exceed their bag limits ( as an amateur ) and sell the catch. All the people I mentioned above have full time jobs and are just topping up their cash reserves, despite bag limits, despite knowing the law, despite the threat of being caught and despite the talking to and head shaking by me and others. Now, I don’t want to see these people lose their cars, boats etc, ( although this is what it will take for them to realize the severity of their activities ) but I want them to stop, not for the sake of them making the dollars on the side, but to put to rest, the holier than thou attitude. Until they are caught, they will continue to enjoy a good cashflow from their illegal and immoral activities. If they get caught and ignore the penalty and continue in their ways, let the full force of the law be brought down upon their heads.


As for the ‘ LAHDB’s “ in our midst, I can only say that if all the time and effort you put into fishing for cash profit were to be re-directed into an education or career or life goal, you may well find that the road you are currently taking will seem short and hazardous. It is very easy to work out how you survive, with certain information being revealed into the public arena with monotonous regularity. Do yourself a favour. >:(



It’s a funny situation, the end , non-fishing, consumer gets a feed of fresh fish, the retailer makes a profit, the wholesaler/ middleman makes a profit, the immoral fisherman makes a profit. Seems like a win / win situation, but as we all know it isn’t. There is a playing field that is provided for us and 99% of us play the game the way it should be played. We will never stamp out the ‘ rats ‘ in our community, but I think we should try to reduce them to a slimey, shameful minority. The DPI&F are there to manage the fishery with what funds and intelligence ( information ) they have available. That must include information passed on by the public. So, if I know of a situation that is happening in real time, YES, I will dob in the mate/ neighbour for a deliberate abuse of the rules for profit. The most important issue here is ‘ intent “. For example, as mentioned in the original post, the old chappie next door sells a couple of bream. He has been out and only caught a few with NO INTENTION of catching fish for profit. But, he finds himself in a situation where the old pensioner lady next door to him, offers him a fiver for some fresh fish.. He knows it’ll cost her 3 times that at the fish shop, not including the effort to get there in the first place. She refuses to take fish without payment and he refuses payment. He knows she wants the fish, he knows he can get a few more tomorrow for himself. A dilemma ! Does he take the cash as to appease and not insult the old lady, or does he stand his ground and in the end she has nothing ? Some people in our community are way too proud to accept something for nothing. With a bit of guile, the old man can persuade the old lady to accept the fish as a gift Everyone wins. The problem arises when a fisherman goes out seeking to bagout and over, knowing that a reward will be waiting on his return. The INTENT is clear and thus a difference does exist. Having said all that, no fish / fillets should be exchanged for cash by amateurs. A barter, favour thing can happen, but only without prior knowledge of the offer and never with illegal fish.

Pinhead is on the money here, just to see the smile on ya neighbours face when you hand over a couple of fillets or invite them round for a seafood nosh-up, does make one feel good. That is a reward. Money cannot buy that !

Further, I don’t think it is fair to have Green Ginger Wine on the boat when you are fishing, it is the exact opposite to having bananas on the boat. ;D


Cheers Phill

[longtail]

Further, I don’t think it is fair to have Green Ginger Wine on the boat when you are fishing, it is the exact opposite to having bananas on the boat. ;D

Is that true Phill??? damn i'd better get a coupla bottles and stick 'em in the boat :o ;D

Geez , i can't even catch enough fish to feed my own family let alone enough to sell :-X ;) ;D


cheers
Jason.

[Black_Rat]

Phill totaly agree with the situation at the moment ;)

However with the flooding of imported fish at our local fishmoger store, the temptation to offer "Fresh Fish" and localaly caught may well outweight the consequences of being caught ? :-X

We export Coral Trout to Japan and it's a very lucrartive trade :o I have had a few chats with Pro trout catchers when staying at Swains reef :) and there quota to bring on board (the mothership) is ridiculas. :o

The cost of seafood will go through the roof (If not already) and as an amature fisho it does beg the question would you part with a prime slab of locally caught, fresh fish for the right price.............. ??????????????????????? :-X :-/

[Redspeckle]

Gelsec I have to argee about the whiting /other fish species
removal pectrol fin or doing some about it becuase the grey nomad army are taking fish back south and selling them

Black Rat yeah what all the dead coral trout that go's over the side dead doen't even reach the domestic market and us Austrailan's have to eat the imported cat fish>:(

I know a certain person does more fishing than anyone in the area and be gone easily 4 to 5 times a week stills go when blowing over 20 knts and you can't tell me fishing for fun I know right into the black market trade but you have to be very careful when going to report to the enforcement agency's :-X I know he will eventually get caught

I know one costal area where the pro's can't sell the fish they catch because the black market is running to well but enforcement agency's are under staff can't really deal with the matter
lucky phil well said there I couldn't say any better
Mitch

[Darren_hokes]

Can someone tell me how people dole bludging afford boats to catch enough fish to sell? Is there any fact in this or just a shot at those less fortunate, I hope not. I dont own a boat but my mates boat costs us 120 dollars a trip just in petrol and its a small boat, you would have to catch a lot of fish to break even?

[INDULGENCE]

Hi Roz
Never thought I would be saying this but ,
In NSW we have the Pro buy back system to assist in fisheries management and in addition we have fish stocking programmes all as result of your and mine license fees.
These guys that are now doing what we used to, going every night and filling up to sell.Are actually catching OUR FISH put there for our rec use.
Of cause I am talking about the mulloway programme currently happening in the estuaries around NSW.
It will only be a short time that will apply to most fish.

Wally

[-spiro-]

Hey Roz you want to buy some FISH[cheap]
$30 a kilo for parrot
$2 a kilo forsnappa
$3 a kilo for pearlies
flathead 3 for a $--this weeks special.....

add 10% gst plus freight if not local

[outsiderskip]

chris
finding things a bit tough
can u help me out

pete

[-spiro-]

Sorry Roz just a lite hearted joke;D ..........but
do you concider swapping a fish for a crab a no no to::) ?


And to all the others that are stirred up about previous post above it's a laugh/joke;D ;D ;D i don't condone selling the catch unless you are going tender or workink for a pro and he is the one selling them.......legaly

[P-ROCK]

Im Australian..........I dont DOB!

[Noelm]

hey indulgence, how did you work out that they are OUR FISH??? are they not for everyone? pro included? maybe you should suggest a law that prevents pro's from catching YOUR fish!

[FNQCairns]

The day they forced me, a recreational angler who has taken not one red cent for a fish ever, to police the blackmarket for their unpaid tax or be fined is the day they closed my eye's and ears for as long as I can be crimalised.
No I wouldn't dob anyone in.

cheers fnq

[roz]

Can someone tell me how people dole bludging afford boats to catch enough fish to sell? Is there any fact in this or just a shot at those less fortunate, I hope not. I dont own a boat but my mates boat costs us 120 dollars a trip just in petrol and its a small boat, you would have to catch a lot of fish to break even?

Sorry Darren,

It happens, often. Think about it, you live at home, don't pay rent, get a labouring job with a builder or anyone for that matter, on and off for a couple of years, doesn't take too long to get a boat up and running.

A few years ago I knew quite a few who did it, as far as they were concerned it beat working.

I don't know what you call a small boat.

Mine is 4.74 with a 70 johnson, and a day costs me around $50. If I up dated the motor it would probably cost me a bit less in fuel.

I would class my boat as small.

r.

[INDULGENCE]

Hi Noelm
Where I coming from is simply that Fisheries are placing thousands of juvenile mulloway into the estuaries as part of a re stocking programme for Rec fishos.It is a shame to see these fish caught in nets by the pros but I can live with that. Its the guys that work for a living (not fishing) and then get out on the water most nights to catch and then sell these fish that I dont like.
The fees paid into NSW Fisheries programmes allow this stocking and I guess the guys fishing every night will probably say like me that they pay for the privledge.
Do you think its reasonable to assist the catch rates of these guys.


Wally

[roz]

Im Australian..........I dont DOB!

Don't flatter yourself P-ROCK.

You are infact an Australian who either...

Doesn't care, is too lazy, You don't mind bludgers taking the income away from people like Pete & Foxy, you are perhaps a shamature, you like greedy people, or you simply havn't got past the school yard mentality or a 10 year old.

I think you are very un Australian.

FNQCairns,

Would you dob in a thief? If not, IMO you are no better than the thief. That's exactly what blackmarket fishing is... stealing.

If you saw someone steal a car.... I know that's drawing a broard bow.

roz.

[PinHead]

P_ROCK...when several blokes are beating the crap out of you or someone breaks into your home and flogs everything...just remember that when the police asks if anyone knows anything...that we are Aussies...we don't dob....I thought being an Aussie was helping out your mates..and if that means reporting criminals then I will gladly do it...maybe you don't work or pay taxes...or as Roz said..you are catching fish and selling them.

[Lucky_Phill]

If one takes the time to read our ( Australian ) constitution ( laws ), it is in fact a criminal offence when :-

You hold knowledge of a criminal act and fail to report that offence.

To dob someone in for personal gain is un-Australian, to dob in a criminal is Australian.



Cheers phill

[samson]

Hey Roz,

I agree and disagree with some of your remarks, I am a commercial line fisherman working out of South East Queensland and dislike shamateurs but my main problems selling fish come from competitive imports mainly from New Zealand. I definitely do not like wholesale slaughter by amateurs in general but when they sell their catch it makes my competition on sale and price that much harder, but when it comes to dobbing I don't agree. I tend to confront and sort matters out myself. I don't like to dob people in or backstab, I consider that as just a low act although not all people have the gumption to do so I'm sure they know someone who would. I have always found there to be a far better way then to involve authorities, a lot of laws shouldn't be there anyway. I'm not just talking fisheries, police, whatever it may be. I had a run in with the council one time over putting bait and guts in a boat ramp bin. I'd been dobbed in by an old couple across the road and found out I was well within my rights as the rubbish was generated at the park ramp, but if the old couple had come over and asked I would have listened. I understand this is different but it's the same principle. Don't dob unless you want the favour returned. Dirt tends to stick even if you haven't done anything wrong.

Just my opinion Roz.

Samson

[roz]

Hey Roz,

I agree and disagree with some of your remarks, I am a commercial line fisherman working out of South East Queensland and dislike shamateurs but my main problems selling fish come from competitive imports mainly from New Zealand. I definitely do not like wholesale slaughter by amateurs in general but when they sell their catch it makes my competition on sale and price that much harder, but when it comes to dobbing I don't agree. I tend to confront and sort matters out myself. I don't like to dob people in or backstab, I consider that as just a low act although not all people have the gumption to do so I'm sure they know someone who would. I have always found there to be a far better way then to involve authorities, a lot of laws shouldn't be there anyway. I'm not just talking fisheries, police, whatever it may be. I had a run in with the council one time over putting bait and guts in a boat ramp bin. I'd been dobbed in by an old couple across the road and found out I was well within my rights as the rubbish was generated at the park ramp, but if the old couple had come over and asked I would have listened. I understand this is different but it's the same principle. Don't dob unless you want the favour returned. Dirt tends to stick even if you haven't done anything wrong.

Just my opinion Roz.

Samson

Hi Samson,

As I've already stated in another thread, line Pros imo do the least damage to fish stocks, but that is not the point of this post. I agree with you, it would have been nicer, had those people approached you first.

But do you honestly think asking the bloke who has a boat load of fish, he intends to sell at the back door of the local co-op or pub, is going to stop simply because you ask him to......nicely, or other wise???? Bet I know the answer to that.

cheers r.

[samson]

Hey Roz a lot of things tend to happen at the back of pubs and co ops a little gentle pursuasion tends to work, but when some people don't bend they tend to break and they don't fill to many boats when broken, mind you i see where your coming from and its great to have support from people such as yourself.

Cheers Samson

[blaze]

advocating or committing voilence dosnt solve problems, history show this to be the case.
cheers
blaze

[P-ROCK]

Roz............You wouldn't understand...................its a male thing.

[Jeremy]

advocating or committing voilence dosnt solve problems, history show this to be the case.
cheers
blaze

Blaze, how can you possibly repeat a cliche like that? Mankinds history is crammed full of violence. Wars and murder. It is a part of life and has been since the beginning of time. I am not advocating violence, but one the other hand, that statement has no basis in fact.

Roz, good post and I support what you have been saying. Samson also made a good point.

I was once offered by a former mate to sell some fish. Very tempting, but I am glad for the sake of my pride and conscience that I did not. I would have no qualms about dobbing someone in if I could produce proof that they were selling their catch as an amateur. Of course, if it was someone I knew I would probably say something first (I did not in the case above, but then I had no proof).

Jeremy

[blaze]

Hi Jeremy
Show me one case in history that violence has solved a problem without create another problem and a counter reaction of more violence. I have no doubt like you say its part of life, that dosnt make it right.
cheers
blaze

[Jeremy]

Blaze,

good point, it would be much harder to find examples of cases where violence does not result in more problems. I am certain there must be a few and could name a few examples. We could probably go back and forth for a while debating specific cases, but no point really.

Jeremy

[samson]

Hey Blaze your some what correct but not every situation is peaches and cream, people can be warned, spooked and threatened with or without violence its no difference to what authorities would do they just have a badge to back them up which they presume makes it right

I recall another problem i had one time with a so called do gooder where i came in with two 7to 8 foot whaler sharks before i knew it the news had been called by some one saying i had killed two grey nurse sharks to add some spice they called fisheries aswell the whole circus was there trying to railroad me it wasn't till fisheries arrived that the news crews changed their opinion on me, once they new they were just whalers they wanted to make out to be some hero not the villian they first thought i told them to piss off and took them to the shop where they should have been an hour earlier, but didn't stop them using the footage on the news afew nights later lucky they got their facts right or there may have been trouble.

Just goes to showget your facts straight or keep your mouth shut simple as that.

Cheers Samson

[roz]

I have decided to delete my response to P-ROCKS post, it didn't deserve a reply.

cheers r.

[finga]

I have decided to delete my response to P-ROCKS post, it didn't deserve a reply.

cheers r.
Why Roz??
I'd like him to try and say that to the cook (no worries cause she call's me the lawn mower :) ) .
It'll be like a scene from Batman...Zot...Bam....Pow....:-[
I actually wrote something else but I was afraid of getting banned again.
I'm definitely male and I'll dob no worries.
Phil put it all pretty good with his little saying.
"To dob someone in for personal gain is un-Australian, to dob in a criminal is Australian"

[roz]

Roz............You wouldn't understand...................its a male thing.

Finga,

It's so hard to respond to an idiotic statement like the one above.

Well maybe P-ROCK it offends REAL males, but I can only guess.

In P-Rock's case maybe his small brain isn't located between his ears...

Must be a VI thing. lol

Ya happy now Finga?

r.

[finga]

yep.....
;D
I'm a real male (according to the cook) and I was sorry to be a member of the male gender by the sexist remark by old matey.
Respect for all goes a long way in my books.

Besides that if I said that to the cook I wouldn't have eaten tea tonight...or maybe I would have got a knuckle sandwich to chew on for a while .....:'(
These french are a toey lot. ;D
:)

[IcemanII]

"To dob someone in for personal gain is un-Australian, to dob in a criminal is Australian"

Finga, are you saying that if a child was kidnapped and you witnessed it you would not help if the police offered a reward.......

maybe you would donate the lot ??, am sure any other option would be for personal gain

[finga]

"To dob someone in for personal gain is un-Australian, to dob in a criminal is Australian"

Finga, are you saying that if a child was kidnapped and you witnessed it you would not help if the police offered a reward.......

maybe you would donate the lot ??, am sure any other option would be for personal gain
I wouldn't expect or look for a reward. I would help as much as possible just to try and help someone in need.
Who in their right might would be thinking about a reward or personal gain when a child has been kidnapped??
I think the quote refers to dobbing inyour neighbour for something minor such as having an unregistered dog just to get even for him poisoning your boganvillia bush that scratches him every time he mows the lawn.

[Feral]

Can someone tell me how people dole bludging afford boats to catch enough fish to sell? Is there any fact in this or just a shot at those less fortunate, I hope not. I dont own a boat but my mates boat costs us 120 dollars a trip just in petrol and its a small boat, you would have to catch a lot of fish to break even?

$120 fuel per trip - small boat? I wish I was lucky enough to own such a small boat ;D My 4.9m with the 6hp I use in the river costs me about $5 in fuel a trip.

[Feral]

Finga,

It's so hard to respond to an idiotic statement like the one above.

Well maybe P-ROCK it offends REAL males, but I can only guess.

In P-Rock's case maybe his small brain isn't located between his ears...

Must be a VI thing. lol

Ya happy now Finga?

r.

Roz, it is "the Code" where real men still hang out. (IE those that know the only good thing to do with a SNAG is throw it on the Barbie! - no matter how much it squeals!)

You dont dob in mates - it is a male thing. Be it right or wrong, it doesn't matter.

But generally it is accepted that you can dob in the scum bags you dont know, the code only applies to scumbags you do know! ;D

[Lucky_Phill]

Feral,

Ever heard of 6 degress of seperation ?

Hope that's no too cryptic !!

Phill

[kingtin]

Feral,

Ever heard of 6 degress of seperation ?

Hope that's no too cryptic !!

Phill

Eeeeeeeee by gum! it's a small world, innit? ;D

kev

[tunaman]

Mr finga. Here,s the funny thing. All this talk about the moral and ethics of law. Thats rich coming for a nation started by convicts.hehehehe;D ;D ;D ;)

Isnt it the code that, you can do it, but dont get caught. eg. There,s a fine line between doing the right thing and just minding your business. The choice is up to the individual.

signed tunaman

[finga]

so a bloke selling drugs to kids is OK as long as he/she isn't caught??
But this is all getting off track of the thread.

Do I think amatures selling fish is wrong??? YEP is the answer.
Do I think getting a few bucks off the neighbour for fish is wrong?? Yep, why not invite them for a feed of fish instead. Do the neighbourly thing.
If you (as an amature) have to sell fish to be able to afford fishing I'd be looking for a cheaper version of fishing. The 'extra' income cannot always be depended upon to try and pay for the trip. And then what'll happen.
Do I think that someone catching buckets loads of fish and then look for people to either sell them to or give them away to is wrong?? Yep. If you have to look for people to give fish to you should have left them in the water....catch and release sounds like a good idea.
Do I think giving a few (not 30kg's in total) fresh fish to your friends and rello's for a feed is wrong?? Nope. But generally they come to our place where the cook does her magic to the fish, we have a few beers, wines and green gingers and the jobs done. Enjoyed by all ;D

[roz]

Roz, it is "the Code" where real men still hang out. (IE those that know the only good thing to do with a SNAG is throw it on the Barbie! - no matter how much it squeals!)

You dont dob in mates - it is a male thing. Be it right or wrong, it doesn't matter.

But generally it is accepted that you can dob in the scum bags you dont know, the code only applies to scumbags you do know! ;D

Ferel, I didn't come down in the last shower, and I can also read between the lines.

The point I am making is P-rocks version of what constitutes a "real man" is subjective, maybe in p-rock's world and yours for all I know.

Since when can he speak on behalf of the entire 51% of the "real male" population? He's gotta be flattering himself lol.

What ever spin you want to put on it, selling fish you are NOT entitled to sell IS stealing, if you need to ease your conscience....that's entirely up to you.

r.

[dfox]

This post seems to be straying away from its original discussion.
I personally hate the fact that many unlicenced people exploit our fisheries and deliberately break the laws and sell fish and crabs for personal gain.
For me to be able to sell fish legally (to a licenced buyer), i had to log up 2 years of sea time on a commercial vessel and complete the course for a masters licence.
Then to maintain that licence i pay yearly fee's.
That gives me the right to sell fish, but on top of that i need another licence to "catch" fish, in my case a line licence. But even that restricts you, a typical line licence or "L1" allows the capture of most estuary species (except barra) and some offshore ones. It does not however allow the sale of any coral reef fin fish or spanish mackerel.
To catch these species you need more symbol's on that licence "RQ" for coral reef fin fish and "SM" for spanish mackerel. Then on top of that you also need quota which is either purchased or leased.
You then carry log books on board your boat and using a phone reporting system the total catch, species,location and estimated wieghts must be phoned in and the log books filled out prior to landing.
Now all these licences and quota have yearly fees as well.
To give a very rough idea a typical line licence might reads like this L1 RQ (3000kg quota) SM (500kg quota). Now to purchase this licence might cost $80 000 and yearly fee's around $1000 add to that the training, boats and gear etc and its not a cheap exercise.
Then of course you get these shamatures that say stuff that and sell fish on the black, sure they take a risk, but hey they dont pay tax, theres no licences or log books to buy or fill out, and how many get caught? ...foxy

[roz]

Mr finga. Here,s the funny thing. All this talk about the moral and ethics of law. Thats rich coming for a nation started by convicts.hehehehe;D ;D ;D ;)

Isnt it the code that, you can do it, but dont get caught. eg. There,s a fine line between doing the right thing and just minding your business. The choice is up to the individual.

signed tunaman

Now here is another good example of someone, in this case tunaman, (in his own words or perhaps that of a translator) assuming the right to speak on behalf of a large percentage of Australians, and getting it wrong.........again. No point in insulting one person at a time, ya might as well get a whole stack in one go!!!

There is also no fine line.

r.

[roz]

Hi there Dave,

A friend of ours is a mackeral pro who works out of 1770, he has a wife and 7 children to feed.

A normal day for him would be up to 14 hours long, if he can't get out to sea he can't make a living.

I wonder how he would feel about an amature....any amature, fishing at outer rock, or any of the mackeral spots up there, and bagging out on mackeral 3 times over, then selling the surplus.

Good to see you put your point across.

r.

[P-ROCK]

So you did respond. LOL.......Im off for a 10 day charter down the Kimberly,so ill have to catch up when i get back. YEEEEOOOOOOW

[Deiter]

Go easy Roz, I see your point, but feel it may be getting lost in the various topics going on at once here. I don't think mr p-rock is worth getting your knickers knotted over either. Bit like trying to discipline someone elses child over the phone, if you know what i mean.

As for "THE CODE", everyone has their own version with their own perceptions, no black and white to be found. Personally, i think ppl who don't dob in serious instances are a bit nancy. They use 'the code' as a screen to hide their frilly knickers behind because they are scared for one reason or another - who knows.

Anyway, i have said the word "knickers" far too often already, so i'll end it there.

Damo

[kingtin]

Go easy Roz, I see your point, but feel it may be getting lost in the various topics going on at once here. I don't think mr p-rock is worth getting your knickers knotted over either. Bit like trying to discipline someone elses child over the phone, if you know what i mean.

As for "THE CODE", everyone has their own version with their own perceptions, no black and white to be found. Personally, i think ppl who don't dob in serious instances are a bit nancy. They use 'the code' as a screen to hide their frilly knickers behind because they are scared for one reason or another - who knows.

Anyway, i have said the word "knickers" far too often already, so i'll end it there.

Damo

Damo, I reckon you're pretty much spot on there. The majority of people that I have met throughout my life, who prescribe to this philosophy, and also those who are "gung ho" about "secret men's business"and the exclusion of females from that business, tend to come across (to me) as a somehow cowardly faction.

They know in their "heart of hearts" that what they prescribe to is wrong, but they appear to fear the admonishment of their peers who prescribe to similar philosophies. They prefer to be "one of the boys" rather that taking the difficult step of questioning their own, and their peer's attitudes, and they fear arriving at a conclusion of their own that may lead to some hard moral decisions and put them outside the circle of the "boy's club".

They get their laughs and jollies by ridiculing females to cover their own inadequacies, and they use "non-dobbing" as a tool to show their so-called mates that they are one of the boys, when in reality, I'm prepared to bet that without those ridiculous tools, the 'good old boy" would feel quite inadequate.

A crime is a crime, period, and the non-dobbing philosophy does nothing for Australian culture other than protect the criminal, and perhaps even encourage him/her further. The "bond" that is created between the perpetrator and the non-dobber, is built on illegality, and as such is a fragile bond built on the trust of those who should be mistrusted. A mateship built on the trust that you will protect that mate if he does something anti-social is of the old school "honour amongst thieves" philosophy, and is outdated, dangerous, and just plain wrong, morally and legally, and to teach it to other generations is an even greater crime. It teaches that you can do what you will and as long as you have mates around you, you will be protected.........it is street gang mentality.

If you contemplate not dobbing in a 'mate/bloke' then you should first ask yourself what is this "mate/bloke" thinking of when he puts you in the position of having to decide. Is he simply prescribing to the "Aussie way" or is he misusing your trust to bolster his own inadequacy by attempting to show you that he is a "good old boy" and a bit of a larrikin. Trusting someone to keep your secret about illegal activities, and attempting to gain trust by keeping quiet about those activities is NOT Australian or "matey" but simply cowardly and anti-social.

We owe a debt to society as a whole, more than we do to individual acquaintances, and this 'turning a blind eye' attitude is a prime factor in the degenaration of society, the breakdown of individual relationships, and the increase in crime, not just here in Oz, but throughout the world.

I have never understood why Australians claim "non-dobbing" as their own anyway.........why they should consider it to be un-Australian to dob? I have lived in quite a few places around the world and they all seem to have the same philosophy.

My apologies if this whingeing pom hasn't quite grasped the Australian psyche yet, and if I am out of step with Australian thinking, but to blindly follow a philosophy simply because you see it as un-Australian not to do so, without questioning the implications of that philosophy, can lead to the breakdown of that society that you so dearly wish to belong to.

Roz, don't waste your breath/typing finger::)

kev

[finga]

Well said Kev and Damo.

[roz]

thanks damo & Kev,

You're 100% correct, not worth getting hot under the collar over idiotic posts, don't know why I can't take my own advice.

What else can be said on this topic, without going off onto a tangent, which has happened here. Can get a bit firey.

r.

[lutjanus]

Hey Deiter I am with you.I Know some of the great catches shown on this site are sold cause my sister buys fish regularly off one of these SHAMATUERS who posts here regularly his photos and stories.--Common sense would tell you that some of these regular great catches are sold. I feel sorry for the real pros who pay huge fees to be undercut by these "people".Dont see too many wealthy pro line fishers Most are battlers trying to feed their family.

[logan]

How about you name and shame lutjanus.

[Deiter]

Lutjanus, If i had hard proof it would be done already.

Kev, one little line i heard years ago rings true to me whenever an instance or topic such as this arises,

"All that is needed for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing"

one to live by, me thinks,

Damo

[Greg P]

Lutjanus - spot on mate and I know where you are coming from as do a lot of past members.

Best to leave it there I think as some people shouldn't be throwing stones in their glass houses or their pot will turn black :-X


Cheers

Greg

[banshee]

Can't stand kiss ar$e crawlers and I can't stand dobers........so I guess the answer is no.

[kingtin]

Lutjanus, If i had hard proof it would be done already.

Kev, one little line i heard years ago rings true to me whenever an instance or topic such as this arises,

"All that is needed for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing"

one to live by, me thinks,

Damo

True Damo, and as Jeremy's sig says, "Apathy is the enemy" but don't get me off on quotes again ;D

This one is one which may well apply with regards to certain things that have been said in this thread.

“Solitude is strength; to depend on the presence of the crowd is weakness. The man who needs a mob to nerve him is much more alone than he imagines.”

Paul Brunton (http://thinkexist.com/quotes/paul_brunton/)

kev


(http://thinkexist.com/quotes/paul_brunton/)

[lutjanus]

Hey Logan,That done
Greg P--Thanks-can see by your location u know

[ffejsmada]

Fair Dinkum, This thread is a waste of time!

Everyone getting hot under the collar, for what?

People have been selling fish illegaly for the past 100 years and they'll still be doing it in the next 100 years.

I know it's illegal, everyone does, it doesn't stop them selling fish.

Get on with what you can control instead of bursting blood vessels over shit you can't control!

In my opinion, there's a lot of hypocrites involved in this thread for one reason or another.

[PinHead]

Fair Dinkum, This thread is a waste of time!

Everyone getting hot under the collar, for what?

People have been selling fish illegaly for the past 100 years and they'll still be doing it in the next 100 years.

I know it's illegal, everyone does, it doesn't stop them selling fish.

Get on with what you can control instead of bursting blood vessels over shit you can't control!

In my opinion, there's a lot of hypocrites involved in this thread for one reason or another.

I have never sold a fish to anyone....and if I came across it I would have no qualms in making the necessary phone calls....looks like you are defending these people.

[finga]

Fair Dinkum, This thread is a waste of time!

Everyone getting hot under the collar, for what?

People have been selling fish illegaly for the past 100 years and they'll still be doing it in the next 100 years.

I know it's illegal, everyone does, it doesn't stop them selling fish.

Get on with what you can control instead of bursting blood vessels over shit you can't control!

In my opinion, there's a lot of hypocrites involved in this thread for one reason or another.

Attitudes like that are turning our great country into a dope smoking, drug pushing, not giving a rats about anything, I'm OK stuff you Jack country just like the good old US of A.
Well I for one don't want this place to turn into a suburb of USA.

There's a big assumption in the quote above about enough fish being around in a 100 years for us to continue fishing

If it's wrong it's wrong and something should be done about it.
How would everyone feel if they lock our fisheries up for good due to lack of fish??

You say you can't control it. That's just bull dust. Anybody can do anything if they want.
You say illegal fishing can't be controlled. Bull dust.
If you want to take control over illegal fishing take your camera and phone and ring the people concerned that can do something about it when you see it or hear of it.
How simple is that??
And your taking control over something you say is impossible.

It was mentioned before about not dobbing because dobbing is un-aussie.
Keeping our aussie way of life should be paramount if you consider your self true blue.
How about we keep it (our aussie way of life) and do our bit to stop this blatant lack of respect to the professional guys,the great lack of respect to our environment and fish stocks and a bigger lack of respect for the laws of the land.
If you don't like the laws of the land or you disagree with the laws of the land your always free to leave.
If you agree with the laws of the land do something useful about it when you see or hear of something that you know is wrong or unlawful.
The only hypocrites in this thread are the ones wanting to live here and not wanting to protect what's truly Australian....our way of life and the laws of our land which are intended to protect our way of life.

I'm another who has never sold a fish.
I've given a few away over the years but one or two to close friends or relo's.

.......Can't control..Unbelieveable :-/

Get off your butt and take control.
Not everything is handed to you on a platter. Sometimes you have to do a little work
Like everything in life that's important or dear to you, you sometimes have to fight for it and get your hands dirty.

[Feral]

Ferel, I didn't come down in the last shower, and I can also read between the lines.

The point I am making is P-rocks version of what constitutes a "real man" is subjective, maybe in p-rock's world and yours for all I know.

Since when can he speak on behalf of the entire 51% of the "real male" population? He's gotta be flattering himself lol.

What ever spin you want to put on it, selling fish you are NOT entitled to sell IS stealing, if you need to ease your conscience....that's entirely up to you.

r.

Never thought of it as stealing, suppose it is "taking the livelihood" away from pros, maybe ripping off the Govt the large sums they charge for fishing licences, ripping off the other amatures fish they might have been able to catch, or even denying the fishery its breeding population etc.

Me I just never do it, coz its illegal, never gave it much more thought than that. Not that I dont bend the odd rule or two, but never seen the need to bend that one.

[Mozza]

Great post,

And yeah, once as a student in S Africa we brought back a few crayfish which were sold to a restuarant. I found the whole experience quite demeaning and never did it again.

I always 'pay my way' when fishing in a mate's boat - I know how much time/money he spends on it and wouldn't have it any other way. Since we often don't come back with fish the money is to pay my share of the fuel costs.

Mozza

[robyoung2]

[quote=Darren_hokes;578881]mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

no, no , no

[PinHead]

[quote=robyoung2;585362] ( Quoted thread removed by moderator )

seeing as how you feel thay way rob, could you please forward your address . I know I can break in, take whatever I want and even if you are home you are not going to dob me in to the police..gotta love people with your attitude.

[PinHead]

oh..also Rob..if someone is on unemployment benefits, then I would much prefer my taxes being used on them to go out and find some employment..not buy fishing gear with it,

[robyoung2]

Member has been warned about the use of inappropriate language and getting off topic. Personal insults are not condoned by this site.

This post has had its contents removed.

Phill

[kingtin]

Y

And as for "not dobbing", I was of course reffering to matters where no-one was being hurt.



Would you care to elaborate on your definition of "hurt" ?

ta

kev

[Blackened]

G'day

Very interesting thread, but also some crazy off topic replies.

RobYoung....... Just to lend a helping hand to yourself mate, and take this on board for your sakes.

Change your mentality and attitude and you will change your world.


Dave

[PinHead]

why do I need assistance rob..maybe the person doing the breaking and entering is doing that to make ends meet also...where is the difference?

Looks I touched a raw nerve on you by your agitated response.

By selling fish you are "hurting" people who are employed in a legitimate and legal business and who are paying their taxes also.


and I just love a feed of prawns.

Perhaps you should remove your head from said rectum and get a grip on the realities of work and paying taxes...and letting those who partake of legal enterprise get on with it. And while we are at it...lots of so called unfortuante people who are unemployed choose to be that way..there are some who have trouble finding employment and some who just do not want to work.

[Lucky_Phill]

Here's a chance to continue with this topic. Let's have a cold shower and take a deep breath.

Phill

[finga]

Lucky for me Lucky Phil stopped this thread.
I had a huge response typed out about the unemployed and making ends meet but couldn't post it.
If I had of been able to post I would most probably be banned right now.
All I'll say about that is priorities. Everyone needs priorities in their lives.

Anyways back to the original post......
Nobody is going to give me a good excuse why they have to sell fish to anybody else, even if it is their neighbour.
To me, charging (or accepting money) for fish that you've caught whilst enjoying your past time is like you charging admission to the spectators that want to watch young Johnny's footy game on Saturday morning.
Maybe I'm narrow minded.
Maybe I think more of my friends not to have them as a second income.
Maybe I'd rather be doing somebody an unconditional act of kindness rather then getting cash out of them.
If I had to sell fish I give to friends to able able to afford fishing then I'd be changing my way of fishing because obviously I cannot afford that (more expensive) style of fishing.
It doesn't cost much to go down to the pontoon or jetty etc with a few prawns and have a fish and I'm sure most would prefer to be out on your own 40' game boat. But most of us don't have a game boat. Why?? Because of priorities like the house, the car, food on the table, clothes for the kids, school fees etc.
You have to have priorities.
Get them (priorities) right and have a life style that suits your legal income.
So I'll leave it at that.

[kingtin]

I think you just about summed it up there Finga. If you love fishing that much, I think it would be a great detractor of the love of the sport, if you had to put the argument that you needed to recoup some of your "costs" by selling the catch.........unemployed or wealthy makes no difference.

Rob has depreciated the criminal act of reccos selling fish because he thinks that it is cynical not to do so when (in his opinion) the pros are more guilty. OK, let's forget about the junkie robbing the 7/11 and focus all our our police attention on the Mr Bigs of the criminal world. ::)

Rob, the pro fishing industry has considerably cleaned up it's act and is continuing to do so. If they are to do so further, then it would be rather hypocritical of reccos, would it not, if reccos didn't clean up their act?

As for the inference that no real "hurt" is caused by the selling of fish "to make ends meet" or that it is un Australian to dob and that dobbers are somehow "the lowest of the low" ...............I think that those who make such a sweeping statement should really ask themselves if they're fully qualified to do so. Do they know the full circumstance? Is the guy selling the fish just trying to make ends meet or is he also drawing benefits? Should that really be a consideration anyway, seeing as it is doubtful that we can really know a stranger's circumstance.

Who are we to ignore a criminal act because we see it as somehow uncharitable to dob because someone is struggling to make ends meet. Isn't it for the court to decide if personal circumstance is a mitigating factor and thereby be lenient with the offender. Who are we to be "vigilante in reverse" and ignore the law?

This non-dobbing philosophy is accountable for untold misery in schools and families. Kids suffer bullying without dobbing for fear of being "un Australian" which leaves them with mental scars and even suicide attempts. They grow to be bullies themselves, riddled with anger at the helplessness that no kid should have to endure. The same too for the bubbie screaming all night long because his milk money has been spent on a fix for his mother.........the neighbour knows that something is wrong but refuses to dob..............for fear of being "un Australian"??????? No! Bollocks! they don't dob because they are bloody cowards and frightened of the hassle that may ensue and the stigma of being called un Australian.

Use your bloody brains for Christ's sake.............it doesn't take an Einstien to figure out just when dobbing crosses the line from being un Australian to being True Blue.

Dobbing can be a defender and not a detractor of the Australian way of life. If used wisely it can enhance the lives of those influenced by it. It is ridiculous to simply say that it is un Australian without considering the circumstances surrounding it's use.

With regards to the circumstances surrounding this thread, then if nothing else, and as divisive as the issue may be, it has at least got us to thinking about the broader issue of reccos selling fish, (I hope), as opposed to purely thinking about the emotive issue of dobbing. Who are we to point the finger at the pros, Asians, Indigenous, if we cannot put our own house in order?

kev

[banshee]

Look you can jump up and down all you want,call me a coward,what ever,I don't sell fish but if I did know someone selling fish I wouldn't dob and if that gets stuck in your throat so be it.

[kingtin]

Look you can jump up and down all you want,call me a coward,what ever,I don't sell fish but if I did know someone selling fish I wouldn't dob and if that gets stuck in your throat so be it.

Nope, doesn't stick in my throat at all. I learned long ago not to get wound up about other folk's principles when there's bugger all I can do about it. We're all individuals with different perspectives on our society. If you had lived my life you would hopefully understand my perspective, just as I would understand yours if I had lived your life.

In every case of abuse that I have encountered, there was warning signs and something could have been done to prevent it, if someone had dobbed sooner. Nothing at all to do with the selling of fish, but if you understood what I wrote previously, then you would see that I'm trying to make the point that it really is not for us to decide if we aren't provided with all the facts. My apologies if I haven't made that clear. If you're in receipt of the facts, then it is your choice what you choose to do about it, but that said, I think it is un-Australian to simply have an all encompassing blind attitude that it is un-Australian to dob no matter what the situation.

kev

[nigelr]

they don't dob because they are bloody cowards and frightened of the hassle that may ensue and the stigma of being called un Australian.


kev

Nailed it in one, Kingtin, IMO.

Have enjoyed yours' and finga's replies on this topic immensely.

Thank God some people have some moral fortitude.

Leave the non-dobbing mentality where it belongs, ie Boggo Rd.

Cheers.

[roz]

Never thought of it as stealing, suppose it is "taking the livelihood" away from pros, maybe ripping off the Govt the large sums they charge for fishing licences, ripping off the other amatures fish they might have been able to catch, or even denying the fishery its breeding population etc.

Me I just never do it, coz its illegal, never gave it much more thought than that. Not that I dont bend the odd rule or two, but never seen the need to bend that one.

I'm sorry Ferel if I jumped on you.

I have to say that at least you are broard minded enough to see the issues from a different perspective. I wish at times I could ignore the silly bonehead comments, or at the very least, calm down before getting my "knickers in a knot" ....now where did I hear that remark????;)

It seems to have gotten down to the question of whether 'to dob or not to dob', for me it's a no brainer. I really have tried to look at it from the other side, but it doesn't make any sense at all.

The greedy 'shamatures' don't give rats about our fishery, they will continue to take and take until there is nothing left, then move on to something else.

If they were true aussies, they certainly wouldn't compromise their mates, in my opinion that's very un Australian.

I put in a netter once...Yep I'm a dobber! He had strung a gill net across my favourite bass creek. He was found guilty in court and made the local paper.

He definately isn't my friend anymore, and I don't care. Real mates don't compromise.

r.

[dogsbody]

If a person was fishing strickly to sell his catch sure i'd nark him in.The pro's pay a hefty sum to catch fish why should these knobs rort the system.

If someone handed over a couple of fish over the fence and was offered a couple of bucks for petrol or bait and was not expecting any payment but took the offer i don't have a problem with. It would be just the same as if the bloke next door went fishing with him and gave him a few bucks.

Dave.

[roz]

Dave,

I think the money you save by putting that fresh fish on the table is more than enough to cover your expenses, you would also have to use fuel in your vehicle to drive down to the supermarket. I've already said this previously.

So from my point of view that really doesn't justify selling fish over the fence. Try simply giving to your neighbour for no money, you'll have a friend for life.. priceless.

As for selling "extra" fish, what's wrong with stopping when you've caught enough, or simply enjoy catching fish then putting the surplus back. No body accidently catch too many fish.

r.

[banshee]

If a person was fishing strickly to sell his catch sure i'd nark him in.The pro's pay a hefty sum to catch fish why should these knobs rort the system.

If someone handed over a couple of fish over the fence and was offered a couple of bucks for petrol or bait and was not expecting any payment but took the offer i don't have a problem with. It would be just the same as if the bloke next door went fishing with him and gave him a few bucks.

Dave.

No it would not be the same as the bloke going fishing with him.......it would be the same as selling fish....and like you I would tend to mind my own bussiness.

OK,seeing how every one likes to throw up the what if, I would wager that if the commercial fishermen at Evans Head could completely stamp out either the black market or 'the Classic',the fishing comp would be gone in a flash,I am yet to see an article or a letter concerning the black market but come July the paper is full of their objections.

[dogsbody]

Hey you asked for my opinion or thoughts,That is my opinion Be it right or wrong i stand by what ive said. I don't remember reading what are your thoughts so i can pick it to bits. That is just MY view.

Dave.

[Mattg68]

I think Dave's right on this one. Firstly he's not saying that 'he' sells fish over the fence - that's hypothetical. Secondly he said he 'would' nark in someone who was making an illegal living out of selling regular catches. I'm with him on the hypothetical though, I mean if someone who, once in a blue moon gets offered sum sponies for some fillets no harm no foul, the fish have been caught in a legal fashion (just like the ones you caught on the weekend - hopefully) but because some money changes hands it becomes a crime - I don't think so. If he was selling them whole to 'Joey' the local seafood shop owner for on-selling to the public yes, I can see that being wrong.

I think one point that's being missed here a little is sustainability, there's some folk here that are out fishing (legally) every other weekend & bringing back there full bag limits & yet some guy who sells a couple of fillets to his neighbour gets condemed, pfffff.

Let's compare apples with apples. Constant (illegal) selling of catch for primary or even secondary income - no, but a couple for some pocket money - come on.

Matt

[roz]

I think Dave's right on this one. Firstly he's not saying that 'he' sells fish over the fence - that's hypothetical. Secondly he said he 'would' nark in someone who was making an illegal living out of selling regular catches. I'm with him on the hypothetical though, I mean if someone who, once in a blue moon gets offered sum sponies for some fillets no harm no foul, the fish have been caught in a legal fashion (just like the ones you caught on the weekend - hopefully) but because some money changes hands it becomes a crime - I don't think so. If he was selling them whole to 'Joey' the local seafood shop owner for on-selling to the public yes, I can see that being wrong.

I think one point that's being missed here a little is sustainability, there's some folk here that are out fishing (legally) every other weekend & bringing back there full bag limits & yet some guy who sells a couple of fillets to his neighbour gets condemed, pfffff.

Let's compare apples with apples. Constant (illegal) selling of catch for primary or even secondary income - no, but a couple for some pocket money - come on.

Matt

Matt,

Dave may or may not have put forward his arguement as hypothetical, you are simply assuming that. It's still wrong.

Sustainability. What has that got to do with greed??? Just because you can legally catch X number of tailor, why bother, if you can't eat or use those fish in some way other than selling for money. You know the answer to that before you walk out the front door to go fishing.

Primary income, secondary income, but pocket money OK:-/ would love to be in court to hear ya say that to the magistrate;D . "come on".

My neighbours are not a source of any form of income, I value their friendship more than just a bit of "pocket money", any fillets I give away have no strings attached.

You can trivialize the reasons for selling fish to soothe your own conscience, maybe you need to.

r.

[kingtin]

<snip>
Let's compare apples with apples. Constant (illegal) selling of catch for primary or even secondary income - no, but a couple for some pocket money - come on.

Matt

I understand what you're saying Matt, but just where do you draw the line?

What is "pocket money"? How would you know whether that pocket money wasn't a secondary income? If too many reccos thought that they could make "pocket money" from their fishing trips, and decided to do so, just think of the impact that could have on fish stocks. Whereas once they may have returned fish to the water as being 'surplus to requirements' they may well now decide to offset their fishing costs. Primme fishing spots would become a target for those seeking pocket money as opposed to the pleasure of fishing.

Grey areas (in law and individual morality) lead to exploitation and none of us are perfect.......we are human with human frailties..........if we thought we could get away with selling a few fish to the neighbours, what then would be the next step if we had a few bills mounting up, or if we simply became a little greedy. The vast majority of fishos are decent responsible folk, but if some bugger thought that decency extended to them not being dobbed for selling fish, then who knows what may result when viewed in the perspective of the recreational fishery as a whole.

No, laws have to be hard and fast tempered with compassion and understanding. That compassion and understanding is for the courts to exercise, not individual members of the public. Apply any other thinking and the law becomes impotent and anarchy ensues We are not the judges, the courts are, but by the same thinking, we are not the police nor fisheries either, so where to from there? ;D

kev

[logan]

i like a feed of flake as good as the next bloke:-X but im not gona lie to you most people turn there nose up of i wana give it away:'( , see it now kingtin before the judge but i wanted to sell catties to feed my kids, you are safe mate noone will ever buy your cattys;D my mum always said those sqeelers have got somethin to hide there is a lot of sqeelin in this topic by a few:-X

[rick k]

( keep your comments related to the topic in the thread, suggestive and personal comments are not condoned. Moderated )

[rick k]

me again.

Gotta love losing a reply because the system gobbled it up half way through typing.

When I was a kid in the 60s, dobbing was invariably a bigger sin than whatever was dobbed on. In the world we saw as kids, anyway.

I reckon this goes back to the squatter/convict days where the golden rule applied. S/he (another product of political correctness) who has the gold makes the rules. The rich ab/used the law, and the Government enforcers, and the working person made their own arrangements in response and did not dob.

Stealing an image from about page 3 of this post, as a 'Cat' in another context, I draw some comfort from changes in attitudes to this. But only some. If people are prepared to 'dob', maybe that means they trust the Government and its Cats to do the right thing. Alternatively, maybe they don't care about that, they just want to do the other person in, or, that, plus they are too scared to confront them, unlike Samson and likeminded types.

[tunaman]

Give this thread a break. ( you have been warned before about your langauge tunaman, fix it !! moderated ). Know one sells fish in this day and age. And if you do, snap out of it. Your giving us a bad name.



signed tunaman

[Mattg68]

Roz,

Firstly, I know Dave personally so I know for a fact he doesn't sell fish, so there's no assumptions there.

Secondly, you (& others) 'assume' that when I write 'pocket money' you must think I'm talking $000's of dollars a year judging by your responses. If you want to take some bugger to court for $10 bucks go ahead I say, god knows the judges could use some more overtime.

Thirdly, Sustainability has everything to do with greed, for where there is greed then sustainability is GONE. You say that it has nothing to do with it & then say 'why catch full bag limit'. These are YOUR views but unfortunately not everyone's. Believe or not there are greedy people out there.

Your moral concerns seem to be with receiving monies for fish (which is fine if it were regular & substancial) but the fish are still being caught & if you 'have' to give away fish maybe you are catching too much (& I'm not suggesting over bag).

As I said - Selling catch 'on a regular basis' is wrong. If you want to linch some bugger for getting a 10er for some fillets then load your guns. If you were really concerned about taking away the livelyhoods of commercial fishos then sell your boat & rods & take up bowling, I'm sure they wouldn't object.

I think your passion on this issue is to be comended but there are alot of assumptions being bandied about & it's pointless debating in this fashion. Maybe one day when I'm up your way we can get together for some heated discussion (& a drink or 10) & you can give me a slap over the head. Until then keep your blood boiling.

And by the way, my conscience is clear.8-)

Matt

[roz]

Hi there Mat,

It's hard not to get emotional when debating the pros and cons of topics like this one, and it's hard to resist getting in the last word (don't count this post Matt)

I don't post many topics in General, mainly just respond.

I usually get enough of a flogging in Rodbuilding from Myles Stu & Co., so wasn't expecting this thread to grow into a bit of a monster & get everyone so fired up....

Is that such a bad thing??? IMO No.

If you feel you have the right to take the high moral ground on a topic, go right ahead, there is always someone out there happy to try and shoot you down.. so I've discovered.

At the end of the day it's nice to go to a M&G and meet up with some of your opposition, I know there have been times I've thought....hope I never meet that B@$T&*D!!!! ey Pinhead lol!!

Looking forward to meeting you one day Matt.

cheers roz.

P.S. I know I'm right.

[roz]

Give this thread a break. Its (langauge edited ) and you know it. Know one sells fish in this day and age. And if you do, snap out of it. Your giving us a bad name.



signed tunaman

No body forced you to post here tunaman.:P

signed roz

OOOoops there's that burley trail again Kev;)

[ffejsmada]

( keep your comments to the subject of the topic, if you have nothing to add, add nothing.........Moderated. )

[kingtin]

OOOoops there's that burley trail again Kev;)

Follow it downtide roz, you won't get hooked that way ;) ;D

kev............who's always following burley uptide ;D

[PinHead]

[quote=roz;586907]
At the end of the day it's nice to go to a M&G and meet up with some of your opposition, I know there have been times I've thought....hope I never meet that B@$T&*D!!!! ey Pinhead lol!!



cheers roz.

quote]

and your did go to a M&G and met the B@$T&*D...lol and I bet you regret it now.

[finga]

[quote=roz;586907]
At the end of the day it's nice to go to a M&G and meet up with some of your opposition, I know there have been times I've thought....hope I never meet that B@$T&*D!!!! ey Pinhead lol!!



cheers roz.

quote]

and your did go to a M&G and met the B@$T&*D...lol and I bet you regret it now.
Hey Pinhead!!!
I tried to send an e-mail to that B joker at $T&*D...lol but nothing happened. Don't know why?? ::) ;D
Back to the thread now...
When it all boils down people have the choice to sell or not.

If you sell...
your breaking the law,
IMO you don't think much of your friends who you sell to,
Your form of fishing must be economically borderline if you need to sell to recoupe costs,
If you have to sell to recoupe costs then your more likely to get to your bag limit (not saying everybody would go overbag but it could happen to get more returns) thusly putting more pressure on resources.
plus a few others that I shouldn't write about

If you don't sell
Your not breaking the law,
You may think your friends as friends if you give them a fillet or two or invite them around for a feed.
Your not too worried about not catching a fish if your form of fishing doesn't stretch the budget to a degree that the family will miss out on a feed if you don't catch anything.

A couple have said what's the problem in getting some pocket money selling fish.
My point is if the pocket money is just pocket money why bother selling.
What's the point in selling if you sell for $5 for a kilo or so??
How good is the 'friendship' if you sell fish to them for $10 for a kilo or so??

At that price your 'friends' may be better off going down to the shop and buying some for that price.

[Lucky_Phill]

Is ' thusly ' a word Scott ?

Phill

[finga]

Is ' thusly ' a word Scott ?

Phill

My fur coat it is

Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage demonstrates that thusly is chiefly used in two constructions: when it follows the verb it modifies ("I have the vision of a little old man...who gives himself silent chuckles by seating people thusly"--William F. Buckley, Jr., in Esquire, 1974) and more specifically when it immediately precedes a passage set off by a colon.

Don't know how a colon (bit of my guts) gets a mention but there you go.

8-)

[roz]

WoooooHoooo wouldn't have pick you as a grammarian Scott.

Back to the bun fight...You have basically summed it up ...again.

There isn't an endless supply of fish out there that can be used for "pocket money".


Pinhead,

Didn't end up regretting anything, that Ba$ta&d ended up being OK, he likes toyotas.. a big plus, I like the mullet or what's left of it, and he's big hearted & he gives nice hugs...

[Lucky_Phill]

Sorry in advance Scott.............::)

I like your definition of Thusly .... but I have my own.

[Origin: 1860–65, Americanism; thus (http://www.ausfish.com.au/search?q=thus) + -ly (http://www.ausfish.com.au/search?q=-ly)http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png]

—Usage note Some speakers and writers regard thusly as a pointless synonym for thus, and they avoid it or use it only for humorous effect.

;D ;D ;D :o

hence forth you are Humourous.....Scott ;)

Phill

ps, Roz, don't know how that Mullet reference is going to go down ??? ;D

[roz]

ps, Roz, don't know how that Mullet reference is going to go down ??? ;D


I don't give a rats, the poor pet will have to get over it.;D

r.

[finga]

Sorry in advance Scott.............::)

I like your definition of Thusly .... but I have my own.

[Origin: 1860–65, Americanism; thus (http://www.ausfish.com.au/search?q=thus) + -ly (http://www.ausfish.com.au/search?q=-ly)http://cache.lexico.com/dictionary/graphics/luna/thinsp.png]

—Usage note Some speakers and writers regard thusly as a pointless synonym for thus, and they avoid it or use it only for humorous effect.

;D ;D ;D :o

hence forth you are Humourous.....Scott ;)

I get called lots of things fairly regularly and humorous isn't one that comes forth-with that often. So ta :D

[sambos]

sorry guys I,m of the opinion only keep what you can eat.
if they cant catch there own bad luck.

Happy Fishing

[kingie]

I'm with Blaze on this one, not that many years ago back under section 35A of the QLD fisheries act it was legal for amatures to sell their excess catch. All you did was go to the wholesalers, give them your name, your boxes of fish and they paid market rate in cash.

It was not an unusual thing to do and for many of the guy's who's names you now see in the media selling the sport did it every fishable weekend, then it was acceptable now it's not, times change and so public attitudes.

The amount of trade these days is a small issue and controlled by bag limits, but it still makes a great smoke screen when trotted out for fisheries managers to hide from real major issues such as species quota's and sustainable yeild

[disorderly]

Guess I'll have to fess up.

Never have sold fish before,

But tomorrow there will be a sale on to make as much money as we can from some spanish mackeral I caught ages ago.

The menu tomorrow is curried fish over rice and is part of a new initiative to get kids to eat better and also raise much needed funds for our local school.

I guess it may be illegal in several ways but I,m happy to help this cause.

As kingie mentioned above the rules were once not so tough.My old man used to be involved with various community organizations and often used to make up seafood platters for fund raising raffles.(25-30 years ago).

What I am against is people who exploit or waste the fish stocks for their own greedy needs.Chances are,though, that these will probably be those same people who dont pay there way generally in life and are always on the take.

cheers Scott

[rabbi]

Hi Roz, Been through this one before. I have seen pro boats in the Richmond river with big jew filling up the bottom of the boat. I have also seen amateurs catching their bag limit of jew and hiding them in the bushes and go back for more.But I have also seen fisho's doing the right thing and good on them. People are not stupid, they know who these shame fisho,s are. I catch jew and family and friends all get a feed (free of charge). What I want to know is Where have all the fish in the Richmond River gone??

[roz]

On Monday I was driving north passing the Clarence & Richmond rivers, I saw a trawler heading up stream on one.

I'm surprised there is anything left after the run-off from a flood a few years back almost killed everything.

It was awful, the rivers stunk for weeks & one turned a brown redish colour, I saw this, as I used to drive from Murwillumbah to Woolgoolga and back every weekend.

Even now I never see anyone fishing the upper reaches of those rivers, may well be a different story down stream. If Onerabbit reads this comment he might be able to add something about the fishing down stream.

r.

[outsiderskip]

hi roz
as a past trawler operator we used to catch a lot of school prawns just before and after the floods .water colour can be deceivingas fresh water stays on top while salt water in on the bottom therefore a lot off marine life

pete

[roz]

hi roz
as a past trawler operator we used to catch a lot of school prawns just before and after the floods .water colour can be deceivingas fresh water stays on top while salt water in on the bottom therefore a lot off marine life

pete

Your're absolutely right Pete, I noticed that situation happening a lot when fishing way up stream in the Tweed for Australian Bass.

But in this instance the stench was strong, for quite a while & I remember winding the window up when driving past. I also remember it was quite a while before trawlers were allowed to work upstream again, even now I wouldn't fancy eating anything from the bottem end of the food chain that comes from the upper reaches of those two rivers.

r.