circle hooks?

[JEWIENEWIE]

Been targeting school jew in the richmond lately with some success but wanting to try these circle hooks i have read about in some jprevous posts. I accidently bought a pack of tuna circle hooks, will they do the job? Also when using live herring where should i insert the hook. Will be using two rods, should i bait up one road with a live herring on a circle and just leave it sit and let the fish hook itself?
Jewie

[imnotoriginal]

Mate, try to have the hook sit outside the bait, so to speak. If you get yourself a bait needle and use that to put some hosiery elastic through the herring's jaw, you use that to secure the hook to the herring. Set your drag very light, then as the jew takes off with the herring, just increase the drag on the reel, BUT DON'T STRIKE. They work by the principle that the fish turning away with the bait in its mouth, combined with an increased pressure, gives the circle hook only one place to go, the corner of the fish's mouth. If you do a little searching on google I'm sure you'll find better explanations of the principles of how these hooks work and some great ideas on rigging.
Joel

[castlemaine]

But Don't Strike.

[castlemaine]

OOOOOOOOOoooooopppppppssssssssss, I meant that as a quote. Tried them once but if you're used to striking a fish it's hard to get out of the habit ... so I gave up ... Striking seems to me more of the hunter rather than skull-dragging. Cheers

[Blackened]

G'day
Use them, you will be presently surprised..
What imnotoriginal says is all good info, another worthwhile position for them would be through the nise of the bait.

Dave

[Burley_Boy]

Wrote an extensive reply that got lost...

One of the best reports on circles I know is at: http://www.fishing.sh/htmfiles/hookreports/tyingvssnelling.html

Circles are great and I don't consider them less of a hunt than gut hooking fish but thats just my opinion. Sounds like the tuna circle should work well, place correctly on bait and consider snelling the hook rather than a straight knot. Give them a shot I say.

[Noelm]

not too sure about why you would want to snall them but hey "if it feels good" and I have always been a bit of a skeptic on these (though I have used them) and believe me they are NOT new! if they rely on "dragging" out of a fishes mouth to lodge in the corner of the jaw (which they do!) then by my guess there is a 50/50 chance that the hook will be turned the other way and not conect with the jaw hinge and just slip out (if you get what I mean) there by reducing possible hookup by 50% but hey the Japanese have been using them for years and the longliners used to use 'em as well, so make up your own mind on that one!not wanting to start a war with all the circle hook lovers here, but just my "always look on the bad side" mind at work.

[Roo]

I thinks that's why they recommend snelling Noelm. the hookup rate goes up dramatically (30%).
cheers, roo.

[imnotoriginal]

Noel, if the fish turns its head to run with the bait, there's only two places the hook can go....the left side of the jaw, or the right side. As orby points out, this is still dependent on the hook being rigged correctly, but still, the evidence supports their effectiveness.
Joel

[snelly1971]

Sorry to argue Noel....but i have been around more long line boats than i think you have and i personally only, but use circle hooks...they are a god send as far as i am concerned.....if you ask around any commercial fisherman then they will tell you they are the best...and they should know...its there living....

We often when bottom fishing lost fish on the way up....weather it being the hook coming out ...or the fish blowing its bladder and floating of the hook....i have never lost one fish through hook failure since using circle hooks...

[snelly1971]

Ps....i know they say to let the fish take the bait and hook itself...we strike all the time and have no problem...unless its a little fish....

[Noelm]

yep snelly been there and done that myself, but I was NOT saying they do not work, because I know they do, just kind of thinking to myself (and all you people out there in 'chat land") about the theory that they COULD miss their mark, because as you said it must hit the left or right side (there is no other side) and it COULD be turned left but drag right, get what I mean?maybe never I don't know, just my thoughts, and I have used them thousands of times, although I don't much now.

[Noelm]

OH and on the don't strike thing, one pro I know who uses them every day, fishes full strike even with live bait, no free spool nothing, and he does it for a living so I guess he may have it worked out huh!

[Squiggle]

We have caught a Jewie (same river system lol) on this type of hook when son bought a packet cheap. We just hooked up herring same way as usual (behind fin, on the line that runs down the side of fish). Mostly though we just use the normal hooks.
Ever caught a soapie or a good bream on a bait jig while jigging for herring....now that's fun.

[Cheech]

The snell uses the line as a bit of a spring. Thus a better connection on the way out rather than it folding back.

[snelly1971]

yep...noelm...you dont believe everything you read....i am the same....full lever drag on...and quick strikes....works for us and that is all that matters i suppose.....i have had too many fish coming up from the deep on other hooks...just to break free....never lost one on a circle....

[trueblue]

Tie a loop, instead of a snell of you don't like the snell. I like the loop knots, because the hook is totally free to move around and is not restricted in it's movement by direct contact to the line.

I have noticed an improvement in hook up rate by having the reel set in the strike position, but not strongly striking to set the hook... just let the fish bite, and then slowly lift the rod and apply pressure and the hook does the rest.

I don't use circle hooks a lot except for the bucket mouthed pearlies, as I prefer to strike with a vmc or tru turn hook, but when going to sleep on a boat and leaving a bait out, I like to change over to a circle hook on a softish rod before laying down as there is a much better chance of a hookup with a circle hook while you do nothing compared to using alternative hooks.

Cheers

Mick

[JEWIENEWIE]

Wht size circle hook would you reccomend true blue when using liuve herring and is the colour of the hook important. Should i be using a silver hook instead of red or black?
Jewie

[Marlin_Mike]

Sharp hooks, if they cant cut into your finger nail when you scrape it over the nail they arent sharp enough INMHO.

Keep a small stone in the tackle box, I learnt the hard way through not keeping an eye on hook sharpness. Was getting the hits but not enough hook ups. Put it down to blunt hook points, started using the stone, presto, hook up rate goes up.


Mike

[JEWIENEWIE]

Having an absolute prick of a time fishing for these buggers. I know there around, just having trouble geeting them. I have been going out 4 days before and after the full moon, with a high or low tide prefferaably close to dark, i am using live bait being herring. I usally have two rods out, one with a circle which justs sits in the holder, another using a basic red suicide hook wich i hang on to. If there is no current i use very little or no lead and when the current picks up, enough lead to get to the bottom. Before using the circle hook, i would basically let the fish take the bait for a small run before striking, Am i on the right track? Could i be doing something different to help increase my chances. The wife goes awaqy on friday for 10 days, so the jboat will be on the water every night until i have one lying in the bottom of my boat!! God help me get one or there aint gonna be much sleep over the next week or so!
Jewienewie

[trueblue]

Use one of the black magic circles that is a combination between a circle and a live bait hook if you are putting the hook into the herring. If you are using a conventional circle, use a dacron bridle and don't put the hook into the fish at all. I don't like red, but I read somewhere recently that at depth in the dark a fish can't tell red and black apart anyway.

Circle hooks are well known to miss strikes if there is too much bait on the hook and not enough bare hook presented - you need an open gape otherwise they will miss every time.

You will have to choose a hook that has enough gape between the point and the shank to allow that gape to slip around the lip of the fish to the corner of the mouth. The closer to a full circle you are, the larger the hook needs to be as the fuller circles are quite close in the gape. The size is a call you have to make based on the fish you expect to catch.

All livies you need to let the fish have time to swallow the bait down. You are probably better to have the line in freespool with the ratchet on and when the fish taked the livie for a run, slowly engage to full drag setting to allow the hook to find the right spot before the pressure comes on. My comments earlier about having the reel in strike position were for small dead baits.

If you are not getting bites though, the type of hook doesn't matter at all. Try changing to live mullet, and also try larger baits. I haven't caught a jewie for over 15 years, but we used to get them at night in the centre of the channel out from deep water bend in the pine river back then. They would take 8" - 10" live mullet no worries so don't be afraid of putting out a big bait if you can find one, just give it heaps of time to swallow it down.

Cheers

[Squiggle]

Having an absolute prick of a time fishing for these buggers. I know there around, just having trouble geeting them. I have been going out 4 days before and after the full moon, with a high or low tide prefferaably close to dark, i am using live bait being herring. I usally have two rods out, one with a circle which justs sits in the holder, another using a basic red suicide hook wich i hang on to. If there is no current i use very little or no lead and when the current picks up, enough lead to get to the bottom. Before using the circle hook, i would basically let the fish take the bait for a small run before striking, Am i on the right track? Could i be doing something different to help increase my chances. The wife goes awaqy on friday for 10 days, so the jboat will be on the water every night until i have one lying in the bottom of my boat!! God help me get one or there aint gonna be much sleep over the next week or so!
Jewienewie

1. The moon phase doesn't seem to be as relevant as the tide does. Try setting out at before the tide starts to run out and stay there till the end of the runout tide. This is best done just before dark and there after.
2. The colour of the hook isn't important we have caught them on silver and reds. We mostly use 4/0 hooks. At the moment we are using 4/0 red Jarvis Walker suicide hooks (100 pack) from Kmart. We caught one last week, 85cm (5kg?) on one of these. We have also caught soapies on jig hooks while jigging for herring.
3. In the river you are fishing you need more of a heavy ball or bean sinker as the tides have been rushing out pretty quickly. Use a running sinker, down to a swivel with about a 2ft strong leader (just incase)
4. Also try and find a school of herring to fish amongst as they attrack the jew like a magnet.
5. Fish on the edge of a lit up area.
6. I give my Jew their first bit of a run then after they have the second run I quietly lift the rod and slowly tighten the loose drag, while you are doing this they are usually having a longer run. Then just wind them in lol.

The main problem I have found is fighting off the bream from stealing the bait before the jew get a look in. And believe me you can tell when it's a bream biting the bait off the hook (usually in 3 pieces) it just seems to tap tap tap tap...Where a half decent Jew will give one tap and then the tip of your rod starts to slowly bend.
Very exciting ;D

By the way the time will be right for you again after another couple of nights....good luck ;)

[JEWIENEWIE]

Another words squiggle there is no need to rush the fish, let them take it for a run first, then strike. Roll on the weekend, i am keener than a dog at a cat show!!
Jewienewie

[Squiggle]

NO..Don't strike...(don't know how many mouths my sons have pulled bait out of doing this)...Once you are sure it is on there just slowly tighten your drag...this will set the hook. Let it have at least 2 runs...The first one happens when your not looking usually lol. The second run you are just being sure it's still there, that is when you slowly lift the rod and start tighten...then your rod will bend more and if your drag isn't tightened up enough it will just keep running at this stage.

[castlemaine]

Retraction of my previous post, went fishing with a mate yesterday who out-gunned me. He used circle hooks and every fish was hooked in the mouth and he likes striking, I'll have to give it another shot as I had to release a few fish with hooks in them.

[trueblue]

Depends if it is a true full circle hook - a real circle hook is almost impossible to be set by striking, due to the closed shape of the hook. There are a lot of part circle hooks around now, that are being sold as 'circles' but don't really qualify as a true circle hook. That clouds the discussion.

Cheers