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rivermanau
14-11-2001, 01:13 PM
Guys, its fair enough to express support for this idea, but will it work ecologically, environmentally, and is it worth spending stocking funds on it?
my views:
1)Harro has posted elsewhere that the barra in Tinaroo are shut down at the moment. If this true up the back of Cairns, they are not going to come on for much of the year down here?
2) the propagation of Mary River cod and jungle perch would be great- they are both local endangered species and
would be great in quantity in dams/rivers - I know they are more expensive, but shouldnt we take a long term view?.
3) It would be easy to make a costly mistake-we can all remeber when there were no bass in the SEQ dams- look at the banded grunter debacle.
I would love to see a larger predator in the bass dams
and some jungle perch in the rivers.
In summary I think there are better candidates more suited to the local climate, barra are very much marginal down this end of QLD. I would love to see a larger predator in the bass dams.
Robert
PS I am involved in a club which supports fish stocking
(ABA)

Brad_Mcalister
14-11-2001, 04:37 PM
I'm no expert, but the two most common arguements used against barra are that its too cold & they could desrtroy the bass fisheries.

Well if its too cold they won't survive therefore can't hurt the bass fishery, what have we lost, nuthin.

If they flourish & do impact on the bass fishery, excellent, go chase bass somewhere else if thats what you want.

Bring on the Barra i reckon.

Brad

Brett_Finger
14-11-2001, 04:41 PM
Have you ever caught an impoundment Barra,cause thay leave the perch for dead ;D
Hookin,Brett Finger.

BOMBER
14-11-2001, 04:54 PM
The question of the weather being too cold in SE Qld for barra to survive is a mute one as anybody who knows where Tinaroo is or has been there during winter will attest, I am a Sales rep who travels to this area every couple of months for 12 days at a time and have experienced temps here of under 2 degrees and on a couple of occassions dropping below zero.Tinaroo is not just out the back of Cairns as some would have you believe but situated on the Atherton Tablelands which has a similar climate to the Darling Downs region here in the SE. As Harro has mentioned in many publications that dams will fish exceptionally well for a period of time but then gradually the fish become harder to catch Harro calls this Plateauing off,the reason maybe the fish get smarter, maybe when people only catch 1 barra a day rather than 10 the fishing is poor. I say trial the Barra at Wivenhoe there are plenty of other dams full of Perch(oops I mean Bass)
Regards,

Steve(BOMBER) Brown

Fitzy
14-11-2001, 05:24 PM
By selectively looking at various points of an issue you can make your argument look far better. You've made no mention that Tinaroo is at far higher altitude than Big W. THis has a very real effect on fish & thier activity.

Also there is the fact that Big W is 3 times bigger than Tinaroo. Minimum temps from the outlet pipe at Somerset into Big W is 20 degrees C. #::)
Also we're talking southern strain barra for Big W, not northern strain as is in Tinaroo.
Do we need to get onto average rainfalls that influence fish??????
By your very post you state your a member of ABA. This meaning Australian Bass Assn. Why the hell wouldn't you be opposed to any fish that aint a bass. (BTW. Bass are really a perch)
Barra being catadromous like bass cannot breed in lakes, not like banded grunter. Where do you get your info from Robert? Didn't you know that? If they are ever a problem, stop stocking & they are gone. Simple.

Mary River cod were never native to the Brisbane Catchment, there is some evidence to suggest that barra were. And if they weren't, where is the problem if they go AWOL? They are not contaminating the gene pool of the fish in the river below, like we've done with bass on all but 1 of Qlds bass rivers. # ::) Yes!!! This is going to be a big issue in years to come. Look at what happened in California with the salmonoids. The Jim Taits don't tell you about these little tid bits do they.
WE can get as many barra as we want at 20 cents each. MR cod cost around a dollar & are very limited in numbers. No MR cod have been available for the past 3 years for stocking groups to purchase.
No SIP money will be used for any trial so public punds are not wasted if unsuccessful.

These same old arguments against a trial of barra in Big W do get a bit tedious. I wish these folks would come up with some fresh material as we've answered every thing they've thrown up so far. We actually have a few silver bullets up our sleeves but we're playing our cards close to our chest for now. We have a few alies within fisheries dept who are helping us out along the way.

One question I have for any opponents of a trial of barra in Big W is: When was the last time you attended a Somerset & Wivenhoe Fish Stocking Assn (SWFSA) meeting to have your say. Or when was the last letter you wrote us??
I know the answer as I've been at 99% of them for the last 10 years.

Crickey, anyone would think that barra are bad to eat & scocking to catch. If the perch aren't up to the task of what is needed for Wivenhoe, I think barra are a far better chance.

Robert I applaud you for posting your views on this subject & would encourage everyone to have thier say on the issue be they for or against.
The majority of folks are in favour of a barra fishery in SEQ & without a trial, we'll never know if they are a success or failure. There's only 1 way to find out.


fitzy..

lordy
15-11-2001, 05:04 AM
Fitzy it comes down to the precautionary principle and the environmental benefits.

Current stockings

precautionary principles: The stocking Murray cod, Silvers and Yellow clearly violate these . As does the mixing of bass gene pools.

Environmental: Murray, goldens and silvers also violate the environmental principles being a western fish.

Barra stocking:

Precautionary: No damage to exisiting gene pools. Can't breed in the lake or river (above Mt Crosby). No long term damage is possible.

Environmental: Bringing back a species that was here sounds like a good environmental principle.


I like the idea of Mary Cod as well, but as a joint species not an exclusive either or option.

Luke
16-11-2001, 09:33 PM
HB Fitzy,
one of the things that I wanted to ask you in laymens terms is why the powers that be are so against the stocking of Barra in the SE. What reasons are given and what do you and other supporters make of them?

Fitzy
16-11-2001, 09:58 PM
Luke,
I've yet to be given a straight answer by anybody concerned except the comment that they are not on the list for stocking in that catchment. I have however been fed a whole heap of gobbledy gook, dodge the real issue arguments. Typical beurocratic mumbo jumbo.
If I can be shown some real facts & figures as to why barra would be detrimental to Big W then I wuold certainly reconsider my personal stance. Until then...........
I don't think any opponents to a barra trial in SEQ are overly keen to show their hand at this stage. Fair enough I suppose.
It was suggested to me that there are those that think this movement will die down given time. Maybe, but I think other wise.
Comments from the likes of Jim Tait in national publications (Fishing World) criticising Harros support for barra in Big W just help bring the issue to the fore once again and do his reputation in the public eye absolutely no good at all. His call.

Well just keep plodding along.

matt_fraser
16-11-2001, 11:48 PM
G'day Fitzy,

As you would probably know, I'm pretty keen on impoundment Barra. I haven't been keeping up with all the arguments of late, but weren't they trialed in Boondooma in the early 90's with poor results.

Matt

Fitzy
17-11-2001, 09:09 AM
HI Matt,
Yep there were barra put in 'Dooma. These were northern strain barra & there was some question mark over the size & quality of these fish. Also getting released just before a particularly cold winter definately wasn't in the fishes best interest. Have a chat to Smithy, he's got all the info there.

The info we have indicates that barra should survive quite well in Big W.
We're certainly not advocatiing an open slather approach to barra stocking, rather a limited number of fish, released in 3 batches, each 2 years apart. Then we sit back & see what affect there has been for a few more years.
We also plan to have performance indicators in place to give us info on growth, distribution, survivability angler captures, stomack content analysis. Basically do some the work that should have been done at places like Tinaroo before they started open slather stocking up there.

Hope that helps Matt. When are coming back from all that great fishing over there? Lucky bugger, keep the teasing emails coming!!

Cheers,

Fitzy..

matt_fraser
17-11-2001, 12:01 PM
Thanks Fitzy,

Good luck with it all, I'm still sitting on the fence though. I talked to the bloke from Glassy's fishing world a couple of years ago and he says that he was losing his Barra every winter. They would just roll up onto the surface and cark it on a cold winters morning. And that he had to restock from up North every spring. I'd love to be able to catch Barra in SEQ, but would hate to see good money wasted.

I've only got about four weeks left here in Bougainville. Hopefully I'll have some more action photos and stories for you after the weekend!

Matt

Fitzy
17-11-2001, 12:11 PM
Hi Matt,
I don't doubt the barra at Glassy's go belly up. Being in shallow dams where the temp can fluctuate rather quickly seems to be a big killer of barra. Seen it happen in other farm dams up north. Massive lakes like Wivenhoe have a most stable temp range due to the sheer volume of water.

Mate I'm keen to hear some more stories of them lures destroying fish.

Cheers.

Fitzy..

allanh
27-11-2001, 06:11 PM
Hey guys...anyone heard about Lake Awoonga just this side of Gladstone. Neither had I until recently. 1.5million Barra stocked over the past 5 years and just added some Jacks this year. Fish are now being taken up to 12kg plus and Awoonga is tipped to rival Tinaroo in a couple of years.

6 hours from Brisbane and we have all the southern strain Barra that we want. Hats off to the Gladstone Port Authority and Water Board for their proactive stocking program.

I'm heading up this weekend.

By the way, I also can remember my grandfather talking about Barra down as far as Jumpinpin many years ago. I say that we should start stocking the salt never mind the fresh....the bream are buggered anyway!

Cheers

Allan

Rosso
02-12-2001, 09:04 AM
If they flourish & do impact on the bass fishery, excellent, go chase bass somewhere else if thats what you want.


Hey, I like the bass in the SEQ area. If you like barra why don't *you* "chase barra somewhere else if thats what you want"

People travel several hours north to fish for barra, others travel several hours south for the bass. Lets keep it that way shall we?

Rosso.

Slates
06-12-2001, 08:01 AM
G'day lads.
A bloke I know has barra (formerly Sunshine Coast Fish Farm) in Bli Bli (Maroochydore) where he lets you rock up and catch a few fish for $25/day. ;D

His fish bite fine over summer, they just shut down over winter. - Refuse to eat and therefore, refuse to grow.

Also, I heard a rumour that Capt. Cook actually found barra as far south as Sydney Harbour?!? :o

Not sure on that one though... ;)

I reckon they'd do ok, and make a great fishery - but maybe a trial in one of the smaller impoundments first?

Fitzy
08-12-2001, 04:51 PM
HI Slates,
Bigger lakes will give the best chance of barra growth & survival I recon.
More constant temps & better food supplies.

Cheers,

Fitz

Tally
10-08-2003, 06:03 AM
G'day Fitzy,
A year and a half after this thread was started I was wondering if there has been any more progress, trials, etc of barra in S.E.Q.
Cheers,
Jay.

Fitzy
11-08-2003, 02:53 PM
Hi Jay,
To the best of my knowlege there is nothing to report on in regard to barra in SEQ.
QFS policy wont allow them south of around Maryborough.

Cheers,

Fitzy..

Voltzy
12-08-2003, 06:34 PM
G'day lads.
A bloke I know has barra (formerly Sunshine Coast Fish Farm) in Bli Bli (Maroochydore) where he lets you rock up and catch a few fish for $25/day. ;D

His fish bite fine over summer, they just shut down over winter. - Refuse to eat and therefore, refuse to grow.

Also, I heard a rumour that Capt. Cook actually found barra as far south as Sydney Harbour?!? :o

Not sure on that one though... ;)

I reckon they'd do ok, and make a great fishery - but maybe a trial in one of the smaller impoundments first?

Slates, me and a couple of mates got stuck into them one arvo in the middle of may last year. They came on the bite just on sunset (it was dead before that). They hit the bendbacks and deceivers style flies quite hard. We got 11 in about 1/2 an hour. It wasn't that nippy that arvo/night, but it did plant some confidence in me that they can survive the cooler weather and maybe bite consistently later than we expect. Not sure about the validity of farmed fish but the activity levels were impressive and that is dictated by the water temp not feeding.

Rosso, the trial is being proposed for Wivenhoe only from what the stocking fellas are saying. You'll still be able to catch bass in somerset, north pine BP,Boondooma, maroon, moogerah, borumba, cressbroook, hinze, clarrie hall, macdonald etc.

flytime
13-08-2003, 05:18 AM
HI all,
I have been reading this #with much interest.Not being much of a freshwater fisherman myself,why wouldn't you want another species such as barra in our dams.Not only for the fishing,but for the hundreds of thousands generated in dollars for towns in the area ,stocking,tackle...etc.And to attest to barra survial in the area.We have wild barra in in as far south as tin can bay.EVER been in the gympie area in winter ?And these are small shallow creeks i'm talking about,for tempature wise.You won't know if you don't give it a go!
regards steve

Quinny69
14-08-2003, 01:47 PM
The Barras would also get rid of those bloody fork tail Catties that are in plauge populations up there.At the moment fishing in warmer mnts on BigW is a wast of time cause of the Cattys hitting the lure ALL THE TIME >:(.It is a good winter big Bass lake but Id rather the Barra.Theres a heap of better Bass lakes I recon. MQ

fisher
14-08-2003, 05:15 PM
Hi fellas being a member of the Fraser Coast Fish Stocking Group for the last six months or so I have been keen to get more Barra put into Lenthalls Dam.With a bit of oppisition to the idea as the Barra only go over the wall when it floods and that they will kill all the Bass has been the main issues.[A net is proposed for the future by the water board] As stated in the DPI stocked impoundments publication the dams dominated with Barra are stated to have a big impact on other species the key word being dominated.As I said at the last meeting and was supported by others that bass is the dominate species in this dam and if the Barra are stocked at a ratio of about 10,000 to 40,000 bass per year there should'nt be to much of a problem and most seemed to agree.With Lenthalls being the last dam south with a permit to stock these magnificent fish we would be silly not to stock them even if it means a few bass get eaten by them.With the SIP's system in place and the funds we are recieving from it why not put them in and see what happens as we can allways stop if the bass look to thretened, but I doubt they will be as there is still plenty of bass in Monduran and there's plenty of Barra as well and they are co-existing in there.Barra three hours from Brisvagas will bring alot of tourism dollars to H/Bay and Maryborough and surrounding areas.There was 3,000 put in the dam in January this year and hope fully another 5-10,000 going in this year and since 91 there has been 25,000 stocked in the dam with very few ever being caught ,with the last stocking prior to this year being 98 with 10,000.I say bring it on ;D Look forward to your coments to this issue so I can relay them to the stocking group at next months meeting.Regards Paul Dolan

Quinny69
15-08-2003, 05:50 AM
Get a Tinaroo style net up and go for it.If Lenthal had (more) Barra it would be awsome. MQ

Brett_Finger
15-08-2003, 04:14 PM
here's what thay can get to in the right conditions,this is a impoundment Barra.
who - where- when, i cannot say. ;)
oh' by the way it equated out (lenght and girth)to around 90lb's
hookin,Brett

Tally
16-08-2003, 04:39 AM
Holy Shit!!!!!! :o :o
It's huuuuuuuughe.(I meant the barra)
Come-on mate, ::)buddy, ::) old pal, ::) you've gotta tell where, if not than at least give us a clue. :-*
What sort of gear did you get her on.
;D ;D ;D ;D
Cheers,
Jay

big_george
16-08-2003, 07:17 AM
Lets say you have walk in after dark and leave in the dark to fish ..Location above Prosserpine.Think it took a scorpion lure,may be wrong on that..DGreat fish A.

Brett_Finger
16-08-2003, 09:18 AM
the bloke in the pic is a NQ local,who caught the fish.i just seem to forget all other details... ::)
Hookin,Brett

lordy
17-08-2003, 05:33 AM
G'day Fitzy,
A year and a half after this thread was started I was wondering if there has been any more progress, trials, etc of barra in S.E.Q.
Cheers,
Jay.

Barra: no progress for barra in SEQ. It is very stringently opposed by some people in industry. It is unlikely SEQ will every see them for political reasons. I don't buy the translocation argument as that only seems to apply when they want it (ie saratoga in SEQ is OK, yellows and silvers on the eastern seaboard rivers/dam is OK, Barra is not, etc).

Jacks: Additional new trials are being run (Townsville weir IIRC) and they will take at least 3 years to complete. Then there is the paper work and the buggering around before stocking takes place elsewhere + the growing time. Don't expect anything for 5+ years.

Mary River Cod: semi-stalled. They are struggling to get breeders and may pull the plug until they can raise more money to do addition genetics work. And if you can get them the price is hardly worth it.

Jungle Perch: We might get trials if we can raise $30000+ dollars and industry support. Then we have to wait for the trials to complete etc. Don't expect anything to happen until you see flying pigs.

Big-eye trevors (and other interesting species): See jungle perch.

Right now, what we see is what we get and it will stay that way for the forseeable future. Pretty sad to see there is no interest in progress in some areas (other people are very much interested but are being stiffled).